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#81
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"Mary" wrote in message news:1110732710.e8dfb19502921731260833f5e47eaf6d@t eranews... "Phil P." wrote in message ink.net... "Mary" wrote in message news:1110674548.50bc87a31f7cb9f0d57d3f6958d2a1c9@t eranews... "Phil P." wrote in message nk.net... "Mary" wrote in message news:1110666398.47277608d1bda159df2f642531f6ac45@t eranews... Phil mentioned several fruits and vegetables that are in Wellness that surprised me. I did not mean to say that a large percentage of the product is made up of fruit and vegetables, only that there are certainly several kinds in it. 10 of the first 15 ingredients are plant material. Sweet potatoes are listed 5th - after chicken broth which is 90% water and makes the actual chicken weight of the the broth effectively much, much less than 5th - and consequently moves all the subsequent plant products higher up on the ingredients list. The biological value of potatoes is even lower than corn. Ingredients are listed predominately by weight. Thus although the first three ingredients are meat products, the *combined weight* of *all* 10 plant products: 5. Sweet Potatoes 6. Carrots, 7. Vegetable Gums, 8. Flaxseed, 10. Alfalfa, 11. Cranberries, 12. Blueberries, 13. Yellow Squash, 14. Yellow Zucchini, 15. Garlic, could easily exceed the weight of the third, or second, or even the first ingredient. Given the numerous plant products (10 of the first 15 ingredients) its very difficult - if not impossible - to know with certainty whether the diet actually contains more meat than plant material without seeing the actual formula - which no pet food company will make public . If the fact that cats are obligate carnivores "Obligate carnivore" is often a misused term. "Obligate carnivore" means the cat must obtain certain nutrients from animal sources - not that the cat must eat only meat. means that "corn has a deleterious effect on cats," which is what buglady responded, then why are there ANY in Wellness? Because all those 'human grade' veggies look good on the label and create anthropomorphic appeal. For example, carrots and beta carotene; cats can't convert beta carotene into vitamin A and must obtain preformed vitamin A. But carrots and beta carotene sure look on the label and advertising... Further down the ingredient list, vitamin A is listed as a supplement... So, IMO, carrots are included for anthropomorphic appeal. The biological value of potatoes is even lower than corn - but 'sweet potatoes' sure look good on the label, too. I feed my cats Wellness as part of their rotating diet because I find the *nutrient levels* favorable - not because I fell for their 'human grade ingredients' or 'all natural' advertising gimmicks. What do people think they're getting for 10 cents more a can - prime rib? LOL! Thanks, Phil. I take it then that Wellness is no better than any other cat food that lists "meat" and not "meat byproducts" as the first ingredient, then? Is that your assessment? Yes. However, meat by-products aren't necessarily a bad thing - meat by-products generally contain more nutrients than skeletal meat. Cats eat animal by-products when they consume a mouse. I have often wondered if the people who keep saying that "meat" is better than "meat byproducts" are talking from an anthropomorphic angle. And if this is true, and one's cat will not eat Hill's prescription s/d, then IF it were safe one might use ANY such cat food that has meat as a first ingredient and dose the cat with urine acidifier? Basically, yes. But I would still avoid brands with high phosphorus levels and low protein to ash ratios. Only I believe you wrote that what Megan recommended is NOT safe. Correct? As I said, adding an acidifier to an acidified diet is risky business - *but* if the cat won't eat a prescription diet, you don't have much of a choice. In such cases, the benefits outweigh the risks - since the consequences of urethral obstruction are oliguric renal failure and death or permanent damage to the urethra. Phil Thanks. Okay, so summing up: Hill's Prescription s/d is the best thing for cats that have had urinary tract problems, in particular blockages. If the cat really will not eat this, then any cat food that has a low phosphorus level and a low ash level (high protein low ash) can be used and possibly supplemented with a urine acidifier such as Methioform--IF the vet advises that this is okay. A few pet food manufacturers make struvite diets so there's a good chance the cat will accept at least one of them -- that's if the owner at least offers them to the cat. Also, there are ways to enhance the flavor of struvite diets without altering their effectiveness. Acidifiers should be the last resort. Phil |
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"Mary" wrote in message news:1110823064.5bd9677ee6c9d10c74d0f9f70b372c3a@t eranews... "Meghan Noecker" wrote in message ... On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:52:02 -0500, "Mary" wrote: I have often wondered if the people who keep saying that "meat" is better than "meat byproducts" are talking from an anthropomorphic angle. Quite possible. My nephew's cat won't eat chicken or steak, but he will eat a mouse. I guess those byproducts add more flavor. Yep. And where does taurine come from, I wonder, that it is not present in tuna? Does it come from hair and eyeballs and bones and toenails and stuff? You're partly right. Retinas contain high concentrations of free taurine. Most other animal tissues, particularly muscle, heart (also a muscle), viscera and brain - and shellfish, also contain high levels of taurine. Plants don't contain any. Most animals are able to synthesize enough taurine from methionine and cysteine to meet their needs. However, cats have a limited capacity to synthesize taurine and must receive it preformed - just like vitamin A (cats can't convert beta carotene Before 1986, many cats suffered from Feline Central Retinal Degeneration and a form of dilated cardiomypoathy (taurine-deficient dilated cardiomyopathy-TD-DCM) because the cat's taurine requirements were not known and taurine was not supplemented in cat foods. After 1987, feline diets were fortified with taurine and both diseases all but disappeared. Along with insufficient protein, the lack of taurine is another reason why dog food should not be fed to cats. Phil. |
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"Steve G" wrote in message oups.com... Mary wrote: (...) Yep. And where does taurine come from, I wonder, that it is not present in tuna? Does it come from hair and eyeballs and bones and toenails and stuff? Not hair, nor eyeballs, nor toenails. IIRC it's most concentrated in the central nervous system, heart and striate muscle. Thanks Steve. I was just looking at a site about that. It comes from animals, just not all animals. |
#84
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"Phil P." wrote in message ink.net... "Mary" wrote in message news:1110823064.5bd9677ee6c9d10c74d0f9f70b372c3a@t eranews... "Meghan Noecker" wrote in message ... On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:52:02 -0500, "Mary" wrote: I have often wondered if the people who keep saying that "meat" is better than "meat byproducts" are talking from an anthropomorphic angle. Quite possible. My nephew's cat won't eat chicken or steak, but he will eat a mouse. I guess those byproducts add more flavor. Yep. And where does taurine come from, I wonder, that it is not present in tuna? Does it come from hair and eyeballs and bones and toenails and stuff? You're partly right. Retinas contain high concentrations of free taurine. Most other animal tissues, particularly muscle, heart (also a muscle), viscera and brain - and shellfish, also contain high levels of taurine. Plants don't contain any. Most animals are able to synthesize enough taurine from methionine and cysteine to meet their needs. However, cats have a limited capacity to synthesize taurine and must receive it preformed - just like vitamin A (cats can't convert beta carotene Before 1986, many cats suffered from Feline Central Retinal Degeneration and a form of dilated cardiomypoathy (taurine-deficient dilated cardiomyopathy-TD-DCM) because the cat's taurine requirements were not known and taurine was not supplemented in cat foods. After 1987, feline diets were fortified with taurine and both diseases all but disappeared. Along with insufficient protein, the lack of taurine is another reason why dog food should not be fed to cats. It's nice to know that good work in cat nutrition continues to be done. |
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