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[OT] [PW] [Long] America Bashing



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 27th 04, 12:08 AM
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
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David Stevenson wrote:


So, while the USA has a lot going for it, it also has some problems in
its attitude. I do not think people should seriously criticise the USA,
but I do also think that Americans should accept mild criticism in the
same way as others do, and realise that other countries have done and
still do a lot for everyone else.


Exactly! And right now, IMO, there's a lot more to be
self-critical ABOUT! Especially the loss of much of our
much vaunted "freedom of the press", due to most of the
media being owned by, therefore owing allegiance to,
corporate America (not to the American people's "right to
know"). The press of other nations is not totally unbiased,
either - but much of the actual NEWS one finds in foreign
news sources never hits our "nightly news", nor even our
newspapers. (Thank GOD for the internet!)

  #12  
Old December 27th 04, 12:15 AM
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
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CatNipped wrote:



Yes, we do invite criticism because we are completely open about our
government, our scandals, our problems, and our mistakes.


Really? Where have you buried your head, lately?

We don't try to
cover up the wrongs we've done, we admit them and try to atone for them
(note, I'm not talking about individuals who may indeed try to cover up
their scandals, I'm talking about America as a nation).


But we allow that moron in the White House (and his
corporate cronies) to say black is white, and despite all
the evidence that surfaced before the election (and
continues to surface) we actually ELECTED him (at least this
time)! Don't you understand that, to the rest of the world,
he REPRESENTS our country? He should be IMPEACHED, not
supported by our regrettably naive populace!

  #13  
Old December 27th 04, 12:56 AM
CatNipped
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"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...

Yes, we do invite criticism because we are completely open about our
government, our scandals, our problems, and our mistakes.


Really? Where have you buried your head, lately?


If this were not the case, how would you or anyone else even know to protest
what has been going on? Where is the logic in what you imply?

We don't try to
cover up the wrongs we've done, we admit them and try to atone for them
(note, I'm not talking about individuals who may indeed try to cover up
their scandals, I'm talking about America as a nation).


But we allow that moron in the White House (and his
corporate cronies) to say black is white, and despite all
the evidence that surfaced before the election (and
continues to surface) we actually ELECTED him (at least this
time)! Don't you understand that, to the rest of the world,
he REPRESENTS our country? He should be IMPEACHED, not
supported by our regrettably naive populace!


I never once said I support the current administration. I said I am proud
of my country.

Hugs,

CatNipped


  #14  
Old December 27th 04, 12:58 AM
CatNipped
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"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...


David Stevenson wrote:


So, while the USA has a lot going for it, it also has some problems in
its attitude. I do not think people should seriously criticise the USA,
but I do also think that Americans should accept mild criticism in the
same way as others do, and realise that other countries have done and
still do a lot for everyone else.


Exactly! And right now, IMO, there's a lot more to be
self-critical ABOUT! Especially the loss of much of our
much vaunted "freedom of the press", due to most of the
media being owned by, therefore owing allegiance to,
corporate America (not to the American people's "right to
know"). The press of other nations is not totally unbiased,
either - but much of the actual NEWS one finds in foreign
news sources never hits our "nightly news", nor even our
newspapers. (Thank GOD for the internet!)


Again, if such repression of news and facts were really the case, how would
you know about it to protest it???

Also, if our country was as politically repressive as you claim you would be
sitting in a dark cell somewhere or killed for the things you've expressed
here! The simple fact that you *can* say the things you're saying *WITHOUT
FEAR OF REPERCUSSION* is a testament to the freedoms we continue to have.

Hugs,

CatNippee


  #15  
Old December 27th 04, 01:13 AM
jmcquown
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EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
bonbon wrote:

I'm proud to be American.


I WAS, until our moronic majority actually ELECTED the
current idiot to the White House for a second term!


Last night I roasted a very nice pork tenderloin. It was nearly 2 lbs. in
weight rather than the usual smaller 1/2 pound hunk of pork. I brushed it
with olive oil, slathered it generously with minced garlic, sprinkled it
with a bit of lemon-pepper, currey powder and just a pinch of salt. I
roasted it at 400F for a little over an hour. Sadly, my meat thermometer
broke last year and I neglected to purchase a new one. I don't like
over-done pork but I didn't want it to be undercooked, either.

The roast was perfect; nice and juicy. I will be able to gently reheat
slices of this to eat for a couple of days. Accompanied by my favourite and
that often bashed vegetable, Brussels Sprouts.

Jill


  #16  
Old December 27th 04, 01:30 AM
Christina Websell
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"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
bonbon wrote:

I'm proud to be American.


I WAS, until our moronic majority actually ELECTED the
current idiot to the White House for a second term!


Last night I roasted a very nice pork tenderloin. It was nearly 2 lbs. in
weight rather than the usual smaller 1/2 pound hunk of pork. I brushed it
with olive oil, slathered it generously with minced garlic, sprinkled it
with a bit of lemon-pepper, currey powder and just a pinch of salt. I
roasted it at 400F for a little over an hour. Sadly, my meat thermometer
broke last year and I neglected to purchase a new one. I don't like
over-done pork but I didn't want it to be undercooked, either.

The roast was perfect; nice and juicy. I will be able to gently reheat
slices of this to eat for a couple of days. Accompanied by my favourite
and
that often bashed vegetable, Brussels Sprouts.

Jill


I *love* brussels sprouts. I was supposed to go out today, but my *7^% car
broke down for the first time ever. I was looking forward to spending the
day with some of my family 11 miles away. So I couldn't go.
I ate a fish pie (which was nice) and some peas/sugar snap peas/mange tout
and beans. Not much of a Boxing Day Meal though, eaten alone. Ah well,
that's cars for you.
I'm cold too, nearly out of wood, and no chance of a delivery until after
Jan 4.
Brr.
Off to bed now. At least my electric blanket is on :-)

Good night all

Tweed
(12.30 a.m.)



  #17  
Old December 27th 04, 01:42 AM
Christina Websell
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"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"David Stevenson" wrote in message
...

While much of what you say is true, there seems a problem that
Americans tend to invite criticism.


Yes, we do invite criticism because we are completely open about our
government, our scandals, our problems, and our mistakes. We don't try to
cover up the wrongs we've done, we admit them and try to atone for them
(note, I'm not talking about individuals who may indeed try to cover up
their scandals, I'm talking about America as a nation). This leaves us
wide
open for the rest of the world to take pot shots at us. That's not what
I'm
talking about.

snip

but I do also think that Americans should accept mild criticism in the
same way as others do, and realise that other countries have done and
still do a lot for everyone else.


I'll take all the mild criticism you can dish out, and probably thank you
for pointing out anything that I'm not already aware of so I can try to
fix
it. Again, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about America
*bashing*. I'm talking about calling Americans (as in *ALL* Americans)
evil, stupid, greedy, dumb, backwards backwoods dolts who go around the
world sticking their noses in where they don't belong and stating that
Americans should go home and mind their own business and stop their war
mongering.

I know I'll get bashed for this one, but America is not only the world's
last super-power, it is a "hyper"-power. Our military weaponry and
technology is unequalled by any other nation on earth. If we truly were
the
evil, satan-incarnate conquerors who were out to subdue the world (as we
are made out to be), then all I can say is that right now every living
being
on the planet would be saluting the America flag. But we are not.

The following was written by a *Canadian* journalist, Gordon Sinclair,
over
thirty years ago, but it is still pertinent and still true...

"The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and
British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in
West
Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks
it
is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly
the
least-appreciated people in all the earth.

As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I
read
of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and
money to help? The Americans did.

They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and
the
Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and
no
foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser
extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in
debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans
who
propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that
hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples.
So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by
tornadoes. Nobody has helped.

The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon
billions
of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries
are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.

I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion
of
the United States dollar build its own airplanes.

Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane
to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If
so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia
fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
a
man or women on the moon?

You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about
German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American
technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ...
and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put
theirs
right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers
are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them
...
unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars
from
Ma and Pa at home to spend here.
When the Americans get out of this bind ... as they will... who could
blame
them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else
buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or
design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through
age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad
and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose.
Both
are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to
the help of other people in trouble.

Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in
trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San
Francisco
earthquake.

Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned
tired
of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their
flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the
lands that are gloating over their present troubles.
I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous
Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual
meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

This year's disasters .. with the year less than half-over. has taken it
all
and nobody...but nobody... has helped. "

Hugs,

CatNipped


If you have seen me bash America/Americans on this group, as a Brit I
apologise, but we would sure like you all to sign up to the emissions thing.
No offence intended.

Tweed





  #18  
Old December 27th 04, 01:51 AM
CatNipped
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"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

If you have seen me bash America/Americans on this group, as a Brit I
apologise, but we would sure like you all to sign up to the emissions

thing.
No offence intended.

Tweed


No, Tweed, not that I noticed, sweetie, you've always been polite as far as
I've seen.

I too wish we would sign the Kyoto treaty. There are lots and lots of
people in this country who do also. Unfortunately, our party is not the one
currently in power (not for want of my trying, anyway - I voted, I *always*
get informed on the issues and vote).

The thing about it is, we have to put up with our duly elected officials
unless/until we vote them out of power, so we're stuck with what we've got
for the next four years - I just hope it's not too late to get this issue
resolved after that.

I disagree with a lot of things my *government* does, but I still love my
country and the majority of people who live here.

Hugs,

CatNipped


  #19  
Old December 27th 04, 02:05 AM
Sheenah
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"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
I disagree with a lot of things my *government* does, but I still

love my
country and the majority of people who live here.

Hugs,

CatNipped

LOL. I am now feeling the need to say that as a Brit living in
England, I disagree with a lot of things *my government* does, but I
still love my country and folk who live here :^)

Sheenah


  #20  
Old December 27th 04, 02:27 AM
Yoj
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You make a lot of good points here, CatNipped. However, many other
countries, especially Canada, came to our aid after the 9-11 attacks.

I also think that one reason some people resent the United States is that
many Americans keep telling them they should be grateful to us. Telling
someone they must be grateful is a sure way to generate resentment. So is
constantly telling someone else we are better than they are. I consider
myself to be a patriotic American, but I would not dream of telling someone
in or from another country that this is the "best country in the world". I
know many people who do that. Ideally, everyone should feel that their
country is the best, but they shouldn't go around telling that to people in
other countries.

Joy

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
OK, this is probably totally inappropriate for this group, but other rants
are allowed and this one has been building for some time now.

I'm getting tired of America bashing. I'm getting tired of Americans
agreeing that we should be bashed.

Are we, as a nation, perfect? Of course not. Have we done things that we
should be ashamed of? Of course. But so has every other country that has
ever existed. To quote a popular guy, "Let ye who is without sin cast the
first stone." We are *NOT* a nation of evil, greedy, stupid, egotistical
maniacs who are out to conquer the world.

Here are the things I'll concede:

Does America put its own interests first in its policy making?
- Of course, ALL COUNTRIES DO!

Is America "selective" about its economic and military support
internationally?
- Absolutely. The U.S. is not a "bottomless well" of financial aid and

good
will.

Does American foreign policy contain some prejudices and favoritism?
- Naturally. Lawless regimes or those opposed to the U.S. will not be

viewed
favorably.

Will America manipulate a country or political situation to advance its
goals?
- Necessarily, as world politics are a dangerous chess game. Remember the
U.S.S.R.?

Are some of the many "conspiracy theories" about the U.S. government true?
- Probably one or two of the more "sane" theories are in fact true.

All that being conceded, that does *NOT* change the following facts:

NOT ONE MAJOR NATION could truthfully answer "NO" to any of the above
criticisms either. Only in a perfect world without rivalry is this
possible, and we are most certainly NOT in a perfect world.

Only America can say it has liberated many countries from occupation or
oppression and "COLONIZED NONE!"

America is still the "land of dreams" as evidenced by people of ALL the
world's nations immigrating to America, including those nations professing
to hate the U.S.

America is a positive force in the world as recorded by its actions
throughout history which have propelled mankind forward.

America, a young nation of just 228 years, achieved economic superiority
ultimately because of it's many tolerances for the ways in which a person
may pursue life, liberty and prosperity.

To quote journalist Neil Cavuto:

"This whole foreigners versus the U.S. thing brings out strong feelings.
And I won't lie to you: I have clear biases here. I love this country, so

I
take exception when people criticize this country. I'm no fool. I know
we're not perfect. But I know we're still the last, best hope on this
planet. So to those foreigners who question us, some questions for you:

# If we're so greedy, why do you crave our money?
# If our culture's so base, why do you seek out our movies?
# If our people are so tacky, why do you hunger for our tourism?
# If our fast food is so passé, why do your countrymen rarely pass up

going
to a McDonald's?
# If our people are so stupid, why do your people seek out our

universities?
# If we're so backwards, why do you buy our computers?
# If we're so unconcerned about the world, why did we commit $15 billion

to
wipe out AIDS in this world?
# And if we're so selfish, why are we always there when you need us?

Maybe it's just me, but I cannot -- for the life of me -- remember the

last
time I saw peasants in rickety boats, risking life and limb to come to

your
country. They risked it all to be in "this" country. Now, I'm not asking
you to love us all days. But maybe think about us this Normandy

anniversary
day. Dead men do tell tales. Hear them.

Someone said I had a problem with foreigners. That's not true. I just

have
a problem with lying and ungrateful ones."

Back to my own comments...

America has been responsible for most of the inventions of the modern

world
that make life easier, more enjoyable, and including medical inventions,
longer and more satisfying.

America is always there when disaster happens anywhere in the world - how
many other countries send *us* help when a major hurricane hits or an
America city is hit with a devastating earthquake?

OK, I could go on like this for pages and pages, but I think you get my
drift.

I'm not asking that everyone else in the world praise us, or even give us
our due, however grudgingly. I'm only asking that you quit taking every
opportunity to criticize, "bash", and sneer at us just because it's
currently the fashionable thing to do. I'm asking Americans to quit

hanging
your head and agreeing with those who bash us.

No, we're not a perfect nation, but I don't know of any other nation,
present or past, that has been so caring, so generous with it's money and
volunteers, so willing to try to "save the world", so adamant in trying to
spread freedom, wealth, and happiness, and so willing to sit back and take
the criticism without ceasing that help in retaliation.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. In fact I'll sit back and wait for the
firestorm (even from some Americans, I'm sure) that this will surely
generate for the gall of me for being proud of my country and tired of

being
demonized just for where I live.

Hugs,

CatNipped




 




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