OT. Rant

I think I just saw a black paw being raised. :-)

One belonging to a cat with one eye ;-)

Cheers, helen s


--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
**$om $

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

If anyone has teenage kids who need to practice essay writing and debating
skills, that peice of FUD (fear, uncertaintly and doubt) is a perfect peice
to analyse.

There are many fallacious arguments, such as arguing from authority, false
analogy, gross overgeneralisation, as well as using emotive words and tones
to gain sympathy (ie, agreemenet) from the reader.

One could use
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

I had gotten a good way into blasting it to peices, and then my computer
crashed. I don't have time to recreate my masterpeice ;-) but am happy to
leave it as an excercise for the reader :-)

have fun!

Yowie
(this is what you get from cutting your Usenet teeth in sci.skeptic)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.791 / Virus Database: 535 - Release Date: 8/11/04

If anyone has teenage kids who need to practice essay writing and debating
skills, that peice of FUD (fear, uncertaintly and doubt) is a perfect peice
to analyse.

There are many fallacious arguments, such as arguing from authority, false
analogy, gross overgeneralisation, as well as using emotive words and tones
to gain sympathy (ie, agreemenet) from the reader.

One could use
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

I had gotten a good way into blasting it to peices, and then my computer
crashed. I don't have time to recreate my masterpeice ;-) but am happy to
leave it as an excercise for the reader :-)

have fun!

Yowie
(this is what you get from cutting your Usenet teeth in sci.skeptic)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.791 / Virus Database: 535 - Release Date: 8/11/04

CatNipped wrote:
Well, I have friends who have differing political and religious beliefs,
*BUT* I don't think I would want to be friends with someone who hates others
based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or *anything* other
than cruely or meanness of spirit.

Exactly!

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

CatNipped wrote:
Well, I have friends who have differing political and religious beliefs,
*BUT* I don't think I would want to be friends with someone who hates others
based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or *anything* other
than cruely or meanness of spirit.

Exactly!

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.


Purrs to Tweed and Victor.

The friends I have with different political views have come to one of
two conclusions with me: 1. that we won't take anything the other
says as a personal insult or 2. that we will not discuss it.

I cannot help but take racism, sexism, anti-gay bias, or religious
discrimination as personally upsetting. One family member I have is
racist and she has learned not to discuss it in my presence.

Tweed, if your friend won't quit...won't stop sending you emails you
don't want to read, or bringing up subjects you've told her upset
you/do not interest you, then don't feel bad if you can't remain
friends. It's not your fault this person is trying to force her views
onto you.

And Victor, I wish you a way to settle with your family. My family
doesn't like my religion, and that makes things awkward sometimes, so
I know the feeling.

--Fil

It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot. She thinks she is right, and I think I am right.


Purrs to Tweed and Victor.

The friends I have with different political views have come to one of
two conclusions with me: 1. that we won't take anything the other
says as a personal insult or 2. that we will not discuss it.

I cannot help but take racism, sexism, anti-gay bias, or religious
discrimination as personally upsetting. One family member I have is
racist and she has learned not to discuss it in my presence.

Tweed, if your friend won't quit...won't stop sending you emails you
don't want to read, or bringing up subjects you've told her upset
you/do not interest you, then don't feel bad if you can't remain
friends. It's not your fault this person is trying to force her views
onto you.

And Victor, I wish you a way to settle with your family. My family
doesn't like my religion, and that makes things awkward sometimes, so
I know the feeling.

--Fil

wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

I told her I don't want to have a friend who thinks like this. She told
me
she doesn't want to have a friend that is ineducable about what is going
on
in America.

Ahem. Who is she to tell you what is "going on in America"?

I have (had!) only two American friends and she was one of them. Apart from
the views of both of them, all I know about what's going on is what I hear
on the radio or see on the telly.
So I mailed my other American friend, Bob, who lives in Michigan, to ask his
opinion and I pasted a bit of the various mails (a lot more vitriol than
I've shown to this group). I thought it would be particularly useful as he
also posts on the chicken group, and therefore he sort of *knows* her.

He was very shocked, so shocked that he mailed me three times about it last
night. He said he'd thought she was okay from what he knew, but now he'd
changed his mind and completely supported me in my opinion.


I see a lot
of what is going on around here, and it's not all racist, homophobic and
rah-rah Bush, I can tell you that. She has a very narrow view of what
this country is supposed to be about - talk about uneducable.

That's more or less exactly what Bob said.

It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot.

As I said to Hans about his racist and intolerant girlfriend: you're well
rid of her. I know it's painful to lose a friend, but do you really want
her as a friend? It doesn't even sound enjoyable to have contact with her,
which is what friendship is about. And it's not like you're dumping her at
the first sign of conflict - you've tried to talk to her, but she just
gets
more and more narrow-minded, and insulting toward you, too. Do you want a
friend who calls you stupid?

I can't see that being a racist and a bigot is right in any country.
She
quotes the Bible at me. I told her that I didn't think God was a bigot.

Jesus was an open-minded, radical thinker who believed society should help
sick and poor people. He died for those opinions, which were threatening
to the powers of the time. And now there are people who, in his name, are
committing (or approving of) the very same atrocities he preached against.

It might be the end of our friendship.

How long were you friends, before all this started coming up?

I'd say two or three years.

Did you ever
have disagreements before?

Not until August 2003.

Any sign that she was going to start trying to
convert you? Or is this a sudden change on her part?

I probably should have heeded the warning signs when she mailed me then, and
in the course of her mail she said how much she resented Mexicans coming
over the border to have their babies in the hospital where she works. She
is a nurse who works with newborns. She also told me that "they" get a P.O.
address in Arizona, claim child support and collect the cheque which she
strongly feels they are not entitled to. One of the things that stuck in my
mind was that she said "all they do is breed and expect us to pay for it."

Things have gotten very tense - and intense - around here. Bush's win has
emboldened the bigots - racists, but especially homophobics - to crawl
out from their slimy rocks and assert their "right" to deprive other
people
of living their lives how they want to. They cram their religious agenda
down everyone's throat, and then whine that people make fun of them. How
would they like it if Islamic fundamentalists took over this country and
made all the women wear veils? It's not OK to use the political apparatus
to preach your gospel. Go to your place of worship for that.

I cannot understand why she continued to send me these things, since I made
it quite clear that I disapproved of her August mail.
After I asked Bob to give me his opinion "as an American" I told her I'd
asked another American about this to see if her opinion was typical. I
pasted some of the things he said, but didn't indicate who'd said it, just
another American that I knew.
In my inbox this morning was a mail from her replying to this mail - and I'm
ashamed to say I feel too cowardly to open it. Should I? And see what she
says?

Come to think of it, I had a nightmare last night that I'd gone away to
a school, and it turned out to be some sort of Christian fundamentalist
school. At some point, they were badgering the non-Christians to convert,
or be killed - and they had locked the place up so nobody could leave,
kind
of like the Roach Motel. They hadn't gotten to me yet, and I was trying to
figure out a way of slipping under their radar. It was creepy!

I've no idea what the Roach Motel is, but the nightmare sure sounds scary.

I would like to reply to everyone who responded to this, but time would be
against me. I'll pick out just a few, and this doesn't imply favouritism.
Just not enough time!
You have all been wonderful. I have considered everything that everyone has
said, including Yowie and Cheryl.
I can certainly agree to differ on a lot of things, with my friends.
Religion and politics is usually no problem. But I simply *cannot* have a
racist, homophobic bigot for a friend, I feel so deeply about it.
I've tried to get her to challenge her beliefs. I asked her what she'd do
if she fell in love with a woman or was born black, or Mexican, or whatever
she seems to despise.
I explained to her that it would be difficult, but to try and answer,
putting all her previous opinions aside. She couldn't do it. I tried
again. Please try to understand what I'm saying, I said to her.
Blimey. She was furious. She said that she would *never* fall in love with
a woman (never say never, I say) and that she wasn't black or Mexican - so
that was a pretty useful exchange. Not.

I am toying with the idea of opening this unread post she sent. I know it
will contain things I don't want to read when she finds out what Bob thinks
of her (although she won't know who it is.)

I might have posted this link before, but do meet my dear American friend
Bob. He is a lovely, sensitive man, he and his wife are crazy about
animals, have cats and lots more creatures.
When my mom died suddenly he mailed me every single day until my German
friend arrived.

If I am upset about something, I can guarantee that he will respond
immediately with a consoling mail. He certainly changed the idea I had
about Americans (until I met you lot!)
If you have a DSL connection, have a look at
http://www.enslavedbyducks.com


Tweed
phew, what a long post, it took ages!!

wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

I told her I don't want to have a friend who thinks like this. She told
me
she doesn't want to have a friend that is ineducable about what is going
on
in America.

Ahem. Who is she to tell you what is "going on in America"?

I have (had!) only two American friends and she was one of them. Apart from
the views of both of them, all I know about what's going on is what I hear
on the radio or see on the telly.
So I mailed my other American friend, Bob, who lives in Michigan, to ask his
opinion and I pasted a bit of the various mails (a lot more vitriol than
I've shown to this group). I thought it would be particularly useful as he
also posts on the chicken group, and therefore he sort of *knows* her.

He was very shocked, so shocked that he mailed me three times about it last
night. He said he'd thought she was okay from what he knew, but now he'd
changed his mind and completely supported me in my opinion.


I see a lot
of what is going on around here, and it's not all racist, homophobic and
rah-rah Bush, I can tell you that. She has a very narrow view of what
this country is supposed to be about - talk about uneducable.

That's more or less exactly what Bob said.

It will be painful for me to fall out with her, but I cannot tolerate a
racist and bigot.

As I said to Hans about his racist and intolerant girlfriend: you're well
rid of her. I know it's painful to lose a friend, but do you really want
her as a friend? It doesn't even sound enjoyable to have contact with her,
which is what friendship is about. And it's not like you're dumping her at
the first sign of conflict - you've tried to talk to her, but she just
gets
more and more narrow-minded, and insulting toward you, too. Do you want a
friend who calls you stupid?

I can't see that being a racist and a bigot is right in any country.
She
quotes the Bible at me. I told her that I didn't think God was a bigot.

Jesus was an open-minded, radical thinker who believed society should help
sick and poor people. He died for those opinions, which were threatening
to the powers of the time. And now there are people who, in his name, are
committing (or approving of) the very same atrocities he preached against.

It might be the end of our friendship.

How long were you friends, before all this started coming up?

I'd say two or three years.

Did you ever
have disagreements before?

Not until August 2003.

Any sign that she was going to start trying to
convert you? Or is this a sudden change on her part?

I probably should have heeded the warning signs when she mailed me then, and
in the course of her mail she said how much she resented Mexicans coming
over the border to have their babies in the hospital where she works. She
is a nurse who works with newborns. She also told me that "they" get a P.O.
address in Arizona, claim child support and collect the cheque which she
strongly feels they are not entitled to. One of the things that stuck in my
mind was that she said "all they do is breed and expect us to pay for it."

Things have gotten very tense - and intense - around here. Bush's win has
emboldened the bigots - racists, but especially homophobics - to crawl
out from their slimy rocks and assert their "right" to deprive other
people
of living their lives how they want to. They cram their religious agenda
down everyone's throat, and then whine that people make fun of them. How
would they like it if Islamic fundamentalists took over this country and
made all the women wear veils? It's not OK to use the political apparatus
to preach your gospel. Go to your place of worship for that.

I cannot understand why she continued to send me these things, since I made
it quite clear that I disapproved of her August mail.
After I asked Bob to give me his opinion "as an American" I told her I'd
asked another American about this to see if her opinion was typical. I
pasted some of the things he said, but didn't indicate who'd said it, just
another American that I knew.
In my inbox this morning was a mail from her replying to this mail - and I'm
ashamed to say I feel too cowardly to open it. Should I? And see what she
says?

Come to think of it, I had a nightmare last night that I'd gone away to
a school, and it turned out to be some sort of Christian fundamentalist
school. At some point, they were badgering the non-Christians to convert,
or be killed - and they had locked the place up so nobody could leave,
kind
of like the Roach Motel. They hadn't gotten to me yet, and I was trying to
figure out a way of slipping under their radar. It was creepy!

I've no idea what the Roach Motel is, but the nightmare sure sounds scary.

I would like to reply to everyone who responded to this, but time would be
against me. I'll pick out just a few, and this doesn't imply favouritism.
Just not enough time!
You have all been wonderful. I have considered everything that everyone has
said, including Yowie and Cheryl.
I can certainly agree to differ on a lot of things, with my friends.
Religion and politics is usually no problem. But I simply *cannot* have a
racist, homophobic bigot for a friend, I feel so deeply about it.
I've tried to get her to challenge her beliefs. I asked her what she'd do
if she fell in love with a woman or was born black, or Mexican, or whatever
she seems to despise.
I explained to her that it would be difficult, but to try and answer,
putting all her previous opinions aside. She couldn't do it. I tried
again. Please try to understand what I'm saying, I said to her.
Blimey. She was furious. She said that she would *never* fall in love with
a woman (never say never, I say) and that she wasn't black or Mexican - so
that was a pretty useful exchange. Not.

I am toying with the idea of opening this unread post she sent. I know it
will contain things I don't want to read when she finds out what Bob thinks
of her (although she won't know who it is.)

I might have posted this link before, but do meet my dear American friend
Bob. He is a lovely, sensitive man, he and his wife are crazy about
animals, have cats and lots more creatures.
When my mom died suddenly he mailed me every single day until my German
friend arrived.

If I am upset about something, I can guarantee that he will respond
immediately with a consoling mail. He certainly changed the idea I had
about Americans (until I met you lot!)
If you have a DSL connection, have a look at
http://www.enslavedbyducks.com


Tweed
phew, what a long post, it took ages!!

On 19 Nov 2004 18:59:52 GMT, eener (SUQKRT) yodeled:


In article , Takayuki
wrote:


Your friend's views must seen about as relevant as if an Iranian
conservative emailed me and told me that Massachusetts should adopt
the sharia, or a Japanese conservative emailed me and told me that the
United States should be ruled by an emperor.



Massachusetts having an Emperor made me giggle. The American Revolution started
here.


All the more irony in having a President who publicly denigrates your
state and its traditions. Have you ever heard another President
specifically put down one of the United States like that? It's just
weird.


Theresa
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com