Some Initial Jottings Re Struvite Crystals + Food

Karen Chuplis wrote:

I will tell you that I had a red persian that got crystals and would
eliminate inappropriately. I fed him the c/d we would go off of it
ocassionally but he did VERY well with it. You can *also* over worry which
will stress Mingy. I would add a high quality canned food he likes and
supplement with the low pH food (whichever he likes best). Add a Feliway
diffuser. This is basically what I;ve done with Grant. It has worked very
well. I do keep an eye on potty habits but he only had one slight relapse
about 3 mmonths after the first and it was such that it was just a sludgy
plug that my vet worked out manually, quickly and he has never had a problem
since.

So, were you/are you feeding Grant c/d kibbles? I wonder whether
kibbles intended for such kitties (to the degree that one decides
to feed kibble at all), with a primary diet of a quality canned
food would be a decent approach? It is odd that some of the
uretic formulas JUST come in kibble form. I do see, in much
reading, that a diet based on kibbles, even the ones designed for
struvite crystals, almost invariably results in more blockages.
--
Jean B.

in article , Jean B. at wrote on
1/30/05 9:03AM:

Karen Chuplis wrote:

I will tell you that I had a red persian that got crystals and would
eliminate inappropriately. I fed him the c/d we would go off of it
ocassionally but he did VERY well with it. You can *also* over worry which
will stress Mingy. I would add a high quality canned food he likes and
supplement with the low pH food (whichever he likes best). Add a Feliway
diffuser. This is basically what I;ve done with Grant. It has worked very
well. I do keep an eye on potty habits but he only had one slight relapse
about 3 mmonths after the first and it was such that it was just a sludgy
plug that my vet worked out manually, quickly and he has never had a problem
since.

So, were you/are you feeding Grant c/d kibbles?

Eukanuba Low pH. I put a little down at bedtime. Otherwise we use Petguard
wetfood.

I wonder whether
kibbles intended for such kitties (to the degree that one decides
to feed kibble at all), with a primary diet of a quality canned
food would be a decent approach?

Well, that is what most posters here who have had the problem do and it
seems to work. I tried Wellness, but mine did not like it. They are picky.
Finally I found they will eat Petguard Turkey Lite and Premium Feast (which
is beef and my vet likes them to stick to winged creatures, but they EAT it
and it is canned and good quality so there you are.)

It is odd that some of the
uretic formulas JUST come in kibble form. I do see, in much
reading, that a diet based on kibbles, even the ones designed for
struvite crystals, almost invariably results in more blockages.

Yeah, I don't get why it is just dry kibble. I think eventually people will
come around to the idea it isn't a good main diet. I have water bowls all
over and my cats drink quite a bit now. They just get a kibble snack at
bedtiime.

Tiger and Amber both get a small amount of kibble treat (Wellness Lite
Super 5 mix) at noon and at bedtime. I stress that it is a small
amount. At regular meals, they usually finish up one 5.5 ounce can
between them within an hour. I am trying to get them to lose a little
weight.


---MIKE---

From: "Jean B."

I wonder whether
kibbles intended for such kitties (to the degree that one decides
to feed kibble at all), with a primary diet of a quality canned
food would be a decent approach? It is odd that some of the
uretic formulas JUST come in kibble form. I do see, in much
reading, that a diet based on kibbles, even the ones designed for
struvite crystals, almost invariably results in more blockages.

Hi Jean,
I don't know if you've read this article by Dr. Zoran, but it's excellent on
why not to feed a carnivore a dry food:

http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecatjournal.com/articles/claws.htm

Karen Chuplis wrote:

Yeah, I don't get why it is just dry kibble. I think eventually people will
come around to the idea it isn't a good main diet. I have water bowls all
over and my cats drink quite a bit now. They just get a kibble snack at
bedtiime.

I am thinking that I would eventually just like to leave a bit of
kibble out if I am out for a long time, or maybe a tiny amount at
night. But he needs to start actually EATING canned food, and not
just licking off the gravy.
--
Jean B.

---MIKE--- wrote:

Tiger and Amber both get a small amount of kibble treat (Wellness Lite
Super 5 mix) at noon and at bedtime. I stress that it is a small
amount. At regular meals, they usually finish up one 5.5 ounce can
between them within an hour. I am trying to get them to lose a little
weight.

---MIKE---

That stuff smells great--but the one sample I opened seemed
fishy. I'll look at the ingredient list again though. It's going
to be interesting getting Mingy to eat mostly canned food and not
graze on dry food.
--
Jean B.

"Jean B." wrote in message ...
Karen Chuplis wrote:

Yeah, I don't get why it is just dry kibble. I think eventually people
will
come around to the idea it isn't a good main diet. I have water bowls all
over and my cats drink quite a bit now. They just get a kibble snack at
bedtiime.

I am thinking that I would eventually just like to leave a bit of
kibble out if I am out for a long time, or maybe a tiny amount at
night. But he needs to start actually EATING canned food, and not
just licking off the gravy.

Try adding water to the canned food to make it like gravy or thick soup.
That's how I get more water into my cat Rusty who had 2 previous blockages
from struvite crystals.

Winnie
--
Jean B.

Hi Jean,
I agree with the advice on using a canend food with any cat that
has some issues with crystaluria. There have now been three published
peer reviewed studies which make it clear that we can increase the
amount of water that is excreted in the urine by using canned food
versus dry food and an equal amount of free water. It simply makes
logical sense to feed a canned food in that instance. I disagree that
every otherwise healthy cat ought to be on canned food. Urolithiasis is
a common disease, but still hits less than 5% of the population. Within
the small segment of cats affected by urolithiasis, there is another
small segment that do much better on canned foods than dry foods. In
the real world about 90% of cats fed a diet for crystals are fed dry
foods without a problem. I suspect the first vet considers the chances
too remote to require using canned foods which are many times more
expensive to feed than dry foods.
I have no clue why a vet would consider s/d a "higher" grade.
That's much like saying a screwdriver is a higher grade than a hammer.
They are two different tools designed to do two different jobs. Perhaps
she meant it as a food that would drive urine pH more acidic thus it
was a "higher grade".
Knowing your cat is a persian I can understand why the first vet
shied away from s/d. Absent a solid analysis of stones, a persian cat
is at much greater risk of oxalates than struvites and feeding s/d
could exacerbate the problem. In looking back through the posts I
didn't see any actual analysis - only a microscopic diagnosis. It is
not uncommon to have cats that are shedding struvite crystals, but have
a CaOx stone in the bladder. Were x-rays done? That could help shed
some light on the issue as well.
On-line research is a good thing, but you really have to be
careful. I have observed some awful advice out there, some that is just
plain dangerous. There seems to be a lot of people with zero education
in nutrition and whose sum total of experience exists in a single cat
they owned, or information from one web page or another. There is
certainly a huge danger in the world wide web, it requires that we
adopt a huge amount of skepticism to anything we read, otherwise we'll
end up thinking the earth if flat, the Halocaust never happened, and
the moon is made of green cheese.

Steve Crane wrote:

Hi Jean,
I agree with the advice on using a canend food with any cat that
has some issues with crystaluria. There have now been three published
peer reviewed studies which make it clear that we can increase the
amount of water that is excreted in the urine by using canned food
versus dry food and an equal amount of free water. It simply makes
logical sense to feed a canned food in that instance. I disagree that
every otherwise healthy cat ought to be on canned food. Urolithiasis is
a common disease, but still hits less than 5% of the population. Within
the small segment of cats affected by urolithiasis, there is another
small segment that do much better on canned foods than dry foods. In
the real world about 90% of cats fed a diet for crystals are fed dry
foods without a problem. I suspect the first vet considers the chances
too remote to require using canned foods which are many times more
expensive to feed than dry foods.
I have no clue why a vet would consider s/d a "higher" grade.
That's much like saying a screwdriver is a higher grade than a hammer.
They are two different tools designed to do two different jobs. Perhaps
she meant it as a food that would drive urine pH more acidic thus it
was a "higher grade".
Knowing your cat is a persian I can understand why the first vet
shied away from s/d. Absent a solid analysis of stones, a persian cat
is at much greater risk of oxalates than struvites and feeding s/d
could exacerbate the problem. In looking back through the posts I
didn't see any actual analysis - only a microscopic diagnosis. It is
not uncommon to have cats that are shedding struvite crystals, but have
a CaOx stone in the bladder. Were x-rays done? That could help shed
some light on the issue as well.
On-line research is a good thing, but you really have to be
careful. I have observed some awful advice out there, some that is just
plain dangerous. There seems to be a lot of people with zero education
in nutrition and whose sum total of experience exists in a single cat
they owned, or information from one web page or another. There is
certainly a huge danger in the world wide web, it requires that we
adopt a huge amount of skepticism to anything we read, otherwise we'll
end up thinking the earth if flat, the Halocaust never happened, and
the moon is made of green cheese.

Thanks, Steve. In spite of some of my comments, I truly am
looking for unbiased information--and for guidance as to what
would be best for Mingy. It seems (right now) that canned is
best, and to the degree he gets kibble it probably should be that
which is designed for struvite crystals, br it Hills or some other
variety. They did mention xrays, and none of the vets mentioned
stones.

I do find it odd that these vets seem to have such different ideas
re cat food after such an episode. Given the omnipresence of
Hill's prescription cat foods in the veterinary offices, I would
have hoped the vets had received some sort of education on its
use.
--
Jean B.

"W. Leong" wrote:

Try adding water to the canned food to make it like gravy or thick soup.
That's how I get more water into my cat Rusty who had 2 previous blockages
from struvite crystals.

Winnie

Thanks, Winnie. I've been adding a bit of homemade chicken broth
(no additives), but I can only get away with adding about a
spoonful. I figure every little bit helps though.

--
Jean B.