Liz's Food recommendations

There isn't a diet out there with more N3,6's than
products made by Hill's. The only "hype" around fatty acids is that
some manufacturers decided it would work to fool consumers. They
realized consumers wouldn't know if the food had N3,6's before or not.
So let's launch a great madison avenue marketing plan and tell
everybody we've added N3,6's to the diet.

Ah so that's why Hill's just launched that new food, huh? Trying to fool
consumers again? LOL

Lauren, you've missed the point again! That reading comprehension thing you
rail about??.......try it for yourself!

From: (Liz)
Date: 10/8/03 12:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Excessive levels of nutrients
are the biggest cause of disease death in pets today.

Reference please.

Liz, why don't you ask a few vets? Why don't you give us references for
EVERYTHING you ever state? Hmmm?? That's your fall back argument when you
can't counter the truth--you ask for "references".

Absolutely WRONG!!!!!!!! Phos levels above 0.4% in cats and dogs with
early renal failure CAUSES early DEATH. No if's no ands, no buts.

Reference please.

....and again. Try looking for peer-reviewed, published research...do they
publish that stuff on the 'net or do you have to actually track down the HARD
copies??

Hello!! Earth to LIZ - Purina's dry DM product has the same level of
carbs.

Hey, did I ever say I endorse Purina´s dry DM? But I don´t see any
representative from Purina in this forum feeding us bull****.


You didn't address Steve's point?

From: (Liz)
Date: 10/8/03 12:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Excessive levels of nutrients
are the biggest cause of disease death in pets today.

Reference please.

Liz, why don't you ask a few vets? Why don't you give us references for
EVERYTHING you ever state? Hmmm?? That's your fall back argument when you
can't counter the truth--you ask for "references".

Absolutely WRONG!!!!!!!! Phos levels above 0.4% in cats and dogs with
early renal failure CAUSES early DEATH. No if's no ands, no buts.

Reference please.

....and again. Try looking for peer-reviewed, published research...do they
publish that stuff on the 'net or do you have to actually track down the HARD
copies??

Hello!! Earth to LIZ - Purina's dry DM product has the same level of
carbs.

Hey, did I ever say I endorse Purina´s dry DM? But I don´t see any
representative from Purina in this forum feeding us bull****.


You didn't address Steve's point?

The Science Diet products are 21-33% *LOWER* in carbs than Felidae and
Wellness dry products.

No they're not! You're comparing the SD *kitten* food to the W & F.

Go back and reread Steve's post. Wellness and Felidae are kitten foods. He is
comparing "like products"...going for a better comparison.

The W & F are *not* exclusive kitten foods, despite your
attempted slight of hand.

YES, THEY ARE! A food that is "all life stages" is a growth food...READ KITTEN
FOOD! We're talking nutrients here, please try to keep up.

The Science Diet products are 21-33% *LOWER* in carbs than Felidae and
Wellness dry products.

No they're not! You're comparing the SD *kitten* food to the W & F.

Go back and reread Steve's post. Wellness and Felidae are kitten foods. He is
comparing "like products"...going for a better comparison.

The W & F are *not* exclusive kitten foods, despite your
attempted slight of hand.

YES, THEY ARE! A food that is "all life stages" is a growth food...READ KITTEN
FOOD! We're talking nutrients here, please try to keep up.

If Hills can keep the phosphorus down and use say,
chicken meal at the top of the ingredient list instead of corn meal, I
might try it again.

LOL! Hill's products are the only foods that ALWAYS keep the phosphorus down.
Again, Cheryl, you are ONLY looking at the ingredient list. Why?? Surely by
now, you know the games that are played w/ ingredient lists. But I guess
emotionalism is all that matters for you and not efficacy or nutrition. You're
more worried about what words on a piece of paper say than the nutrient levels
going into your cats (managing risk factors).

If Hills can keep the phosphorus down and use say,
chicken meal at the top of the ingredient list instead of corn meal, I
might try it again.

LOL! Hill's products are the only foods that ALWAYS keep the phosphorus down.
Again, Cheryl, you are ONLY looking at the ingredient list. Why?? Surely by
now, you know the games that are played w/ ingredient lists. But I guess
emotionalism is all that matters for you and not efficacy or nutrition. You're
more worried about what words on a piece of paper say than the nutrient levels
going into your cats (managing risk factors).

In article ,
(GAUBSTER2) wrote:

I ask Steve what an example of disease caused by nutritional excess is,
because "dietary development is always looking at the disease we see and
trying to avoid them [sic]".

I'll take a stab at it...how about excess sodium causing hypertension and
heart
disease (among other things)?

Excellent example, thanks. So we can guess that Hill's Science Diet
products are formulated with low sodium. And perhaps when Steve
described his experience of seeing more dogs with diseases of
nutritional excess in vet clinics today as opposed to the diseases of
nutritional deficiency of yesteryear, he was talking about heart disease.

What other examples are there that would drive home that contrast
between the deficiency of previous poor-quality dog foods and the
excesses of current poor-quality (or not-Hills-quality) dog foods?

I am not expecting an answer that "obesity is a problem caused by
nutritional excess" because then Hill's would be developing and
marketing an educational campaign to get people to feed their cats less
food--including Hill's food, of course.


Actually there was some sort of campaign to educate consumers about the
dangers
of obesity sponsored by Hill's and the University of Chicago earlier this
year??

Then why bother limiting nutrients in Hill's food if the main problem is
excess calories--a problem that can be dealt with by such a campaign to
convince owners to feed less food?

-Alison in OH

In article ,
(GAUBSTER2) wrote:

I ask Steve what an example of disease caused by nutritional excess is,
because "dietary development is always looking at the disease we see and
trying to avoid them [sic]".

I'll take a stab at it...how about excess sodium causing hypertension and
heart
disease (among other things)?

Excellent example, thanks. So we can guess that Hill's Science Diet
products are formulated with low sodium. And perhaps when Steve
described his experience of seeing more dogs with diseases of
nutritional excess in vet clinics today as opposed to the diseases of
nutritional deficiency of yesteryear, he was talking about heart disease.

What other examples are there that would drive home that contrast
between the deficiency of previous poor-quality dog foods and the
excesses of current poor-quality (or not-Hills-quality) dog foods?

I am not expecting an answer that "obesity is a problem caused by
nutritional excess" because then Hill's would be developing and
marketing an educational campaign to get people to feed their cats less
food--including Hill's food, of course.


Actually there was some sort of campaign to educate consumers about the
dangers
of obesity sponsored by Hill's and the University of Chicago earlier this
year??

Then why bother limiting nutrients in Hill's food if the main problem is
excess calories--a problem that can be dealt with by such a campaign to
convince owners to feed less food?

-Alison in OH

In article ,
(GAUBSTER2) wrote:

The Science Diet products are 21-33% *LOWER* in carbs than Felidae and
Wellness dry products.

No they're not! You're comparing the SD *kitten* food to the W & F.

Go back and reread Steve's post. Wellness and Felidae are kitten foods. He
is
comparing "like products"...going for a better comparison.

The W & F are *not* exclusive kitten foods, despite your
attempted slight of hand.

YES, THEY ARE! A food that is "all life stages" is a growth food...READ
KITTEN
FOOD! We're talking nutrients here, please try to keep up.

We're NOT talking nutrients here, please DO try to keep up.

You claim a product that passes the AAFCO feed trial for growth has a
different nutrient profile than a product that passes the AAFCO feed
trial for maintenance.

AS STEVE HAS POSTED, there is no consideration of the nutrient profile
in a feed trial. The ONLY consideration is the biochemical and
physiologic effect on the test animals.

Wellness and Felidae FAIL to cause ANEMIA and STUNTING in kittens (among
other blood morphology and chemistry requirements). That is the ONLY
extrapolation to be made from the label claim.

-Alison in OH