Need serious and personal advice on putting my 2 overweight cats on a diet...

On 2003-09-08, jjmoreta wrote:

I have two cats and they both need to lose some weight, but I'm not sure how
to go about it. We're currently suffering financial problems so I can't
really afford to take them to the vet just for diet advice, at least for a
few months.

My vet's advice is to put out the food for a half hour and then put
it away. Leave water out all the time. A lot of the time seeing the
food will stimulate them to eat even when they aren't hungry, so you
aren't really depriving them by putting the food away. They can get
enough to eat with one or two feedings a day.

On 2003-09-08, jjmoreta wrote:

I have two cats and they both need to lose some weight, but I'm not sure how
to go about it. We're currently suffering financial problems so I can't
really afford to take them to the vet just for diet advice, at least for a
few months.

My vet's advice is to put out the food for a half hour and then put
it away. Leave water out all the time. A lot of the time seeing the
food will stimulate them to eat even when they aren't hungry, so you
aren't really depriving them by putting the food away. They can get
enough to eat with one or two feedings a day.

On 2003-09-08, jjmoreta wrote:

I have two cats and they both need to lose some weight, but I'm not sure how
to go about it. We're currently suffering financial problems so I can't
really afford to take them to the vet just for diet advice, at least for a
few months.

My vet's advice is to put out the food for a half hour and then put
it away. Leave water out all the time. A lot of the time seeing the
food will stimulate them to eat even when they aren't hungry, so you
aren't really depriving them by putting the food away. They can get
enough to eat with one or two feedings a day.

Karen Chuplis wrote:
Best thing you can possibly do is switch them over to canned food
with maybe a tblsp. snack of dry. It will take a while, but they will
lighten up. If your husband has allergies, that is a good decision
about the bedroom. Luna will adjust. ONce the baby comes, Luna may
not *want* to go in there. Remember to fuss over them a lot if you
can when the baby comes so they aren't jealous.

Karen

Is canned food a lot better and/or less expensive in the long run? They got
wet food as kittens, but when we've fed them with it in the past couple of
years (we keep some on hand in case we run out of dry cat food) and they're
not terribly thrilled with it. They sniff at the canned stuff for a while
before they'll touch it and if its the Whiskas morsels/gravy stuff, they'll
eat the gravy first and not always eat the rest. Or is that a good thing if
I want to put them on a diet? What should I use for adult portions? I'll
keep this idea in mind.

As for the baby, I'm not worried about them being jealous, just depressed.
Mina is more my husband's cat so I'll have to make sure he pays extra
attention to her, but I belong to Luna. Thank goodness he loves laying at
my feet most of the time. His feelings are hurt easily and I haven't been a
very patient mommy during sections of this pregnancy - usually hormonal
grumpiness. He demands love on his own time and terms which doesn't always
apply now and probably won't in the future. If he doesn't get the attention
he needs, he'll sulk through the time that I have available (I may watch 4
hours of TV in a row some nights but if he's mad he'll ignore me). At least
he can jump on my chest and tummy again (a favorite activity since at least
8 weeks old) - I was too tender early on for 25+ lbs of furry love and he
didn't take it well. He gets kicked pretty often but doesn't seem to
notice. At the very least, he'll love that I'll be home for at least 3-4
months. 8)

I'm just praying he gets used to the bedroom door being closed soon. It's
closed 24 hours a day and Luna doesn't have a problem until usually around
2-3am. My husband will get up and spray him with water if yelling "No" at
the door loudly doesn't work, but what makes me mad some nights (I'm having
a hard enough time sleeping right now that Luna isn't helping) is that Luna
will scratch at the door and then run down the hall before hubby has a
chance to get to the door. He's a smart cat! *sigh* I love Mina with all
my heart, but she doesn't have half the brains that Luna does (she still
doesn't realize the water bottle is us, Luna does). I can't understand how
she's a better hunter sometimes...

- Joanne

Karen Chuplis wrote:
Best thing you can possibly do is switch them over to canned food
with maybe a tblsp. snack of dry. It will take a while, but they will
lighten up. If your husband has allergies, that is a good decision
about the bedroom. Luna will adjust. ONce the baby comes, Luna may
not *want* to go in there. Remember to fuss over them a lot if you
can when the baby comes so they aren't jealous.

Karen

Is canned food a lot better and/or less expensive in the long run? They got
wet food as kittens, but when we've fed them with it in the past couple of
years (we keep some on hand in case we run out of dry cat food) and they're
not terribly thrilled with it. They sniff at the canned stuff for a while
before they'll touch it and if its the Whiskas morsels/gravy stuff, they'll
eat the gravy first and not always eat the rest. Or is that a good thing if
I want to put them on a diet? What should I use for adult portions? I'll
keep this idea in mind.

As for the baby, I'm not worried about them being jealous, just depressed.
Mina is more my husband's cat so I'll have to make sure he pays extra
attention to her, but I belong to Luna. Thank goodness he loves laying at
my feet most of the time. His feelings are hurt easily and I haven't been a
very patient mommy during sections of this pregnancy - usually hormonal
grumpiness. He demands love on his own time and terms which doesn't always
apply now and probably won't in the future. If he doesn't get the attention
he needs, he'll sulk through the time that I have available (I may watch 4
hours of TV in a row some nights but if he's mad he'll ignore me). At least
he can jump on my chest and tummy again (a favorite activity since at least
8 weeks old) - I was too tender early on for 25+ lbs of furry love and he
didn't take it well. He gets kicked pretty often but doesn't seem to
notice. At the very least, he'll love that I'll be home for at least 3-4
months. 8)

I'm just praying he gets used to the bedroom door being closed soon. It's
closed 24 hours a day and Luna doesn't have a problem until usually around
2-3am. My husband will get up and spray him with water if yelling "No" at
the door loudly doesn't work, but what makes me mad some nights (I'm having
a hard enough time sleeping right now that Luna isn't helping) is that Luna
will scratch at the door and then run down the hall before hubby has a
chance to get to the door. He's a smart cat! *sigh* I love Mina with all
my heart, but she doesn't have half the brains that Luna does (she still
doesn't realize the water bottle is us, Luna does). I can't understand how
she's a better hunter sometimes...

- Joanne

Karen Chuplis wrote:
Best thing you can possibly do is switch them over to canned food
with maybe a tblsp. snack of dry. It will take a while, but they will
lighten up. If your husband has allergies, that is a good decision
about the bedroom. Luna will adjust. ONce the baby comes, Luna may
not *want* to go in there. Remember to fuss over them a lot if you
can when the baby comes so they aren't jealous.

Karen

Is canned food a lot better and/or less expensive in the long run? They got
wet food as kittens, but when we've fed them with it in the past couple of
years (we keep some on hand in case we run out of dry cat food) and they're
not terribly thrilled with it. They sniff at the canned stuff for a while
before they'll touch it and if its the Whiskas morsels/gravy stuff, they'll
eat the gravy first and not always eat the rest. Or is that a good thing if
I want to put them on a diet? What should I use for adult portions? I'll
keep this idea in mind.

As for the baby, I'm not worried about them being jealous, just depressed.
Mina is more my husband's cat so I'll have to make sure he pays extra
attention to her, but I belong to Luna. Thank goodness he loves laying at
my feet most of the time. His feelings are hurt easily and I haven't been a
very patient mommy during sections of this pregnancy - usually hormonal
grumpiness. He demands love on his own time and terms which doesn't always
apply now and probably won't in the future. If he doesn't get the attention
he needs, he'll sulk through the time that I have available (I may watch 4
hours of TV in a row some nights but if he's mad he'll ignore me). At least
he can jump on my chest and tummy again (a favorite activity since at least
8 weeks old) - I was too tender early on for 25+ lbs of furry love and he
didn't take it well. He gets kicked pretty often but doesn't seem to
notice. At the very least, he'll love that I'll be home for at least 3-4
months. 8)

I'm just praying he gets used to the bedroom door being closed soon. It's
closed 24 hours a day and Luna doesn't have a problem until usually around
2-3am. My husband will get up and spray him with water if yelling "No" at
the door loudly doesn't work, but what makes me mad some nights (I'm having
a hard enough time sleeping right now that Luna isn't helping) is that Luna
will scratch at the door and then run down the hall before hubby has a
chance to get to the door. He's a smart cat! *sigh* I love Mina with all
my heart, but she doesn't have half the brains that Luna does (she still
doesn't realize the water bottle is us, Luna does). I can't understand how
she's a better hunter sometimes...

- Joanne

jjmoreta said:

Luna is a 4 year old male and is a Maine Coon/tabby mix. He's the one I'm
worried about the most. He's a very large and muscular cat, but in the past
few months I have increasingly noticed that he is having problems with his
weight. He can't jump as well as he used to, he has no stamina for playing
(won't even chase his sister all the way down the hall anymore), and his
grooming has suffered (particularly on his back). He is the dominant cat in
the household and I have noticed over the years that he is an emotional
eater. If he feels less dominant or threatened or depressed, he will go and
eat even if he just ate a short time ago. If one of us walks into the
kitchen where his food is, he'll go eat. He needs to lose at least 2-3
pounds, maybe more (I need to get him on the scale).

It is probably just because of the extra weight but just make a note of
the jumping, lack of stamina, and grooming problems. If after he loses
weight he is still doing those things a vet checkup is in order. Also
increasing their activity level with toys and such will help.


They've both been allowed to have all the dry food they've desired most of
their lives, since that's how my husband's family always did it. I only had
one outside cat, so I went by his advice. We also both used to work second
shift, and they didn't ever really adapt to waking and eating on our
schedule, so not having a hungry cat meowing in my ear at 5am worked at the
time. Now, I'm willing to endure more inconvenience to get my old playful
kitties back.

I would determine both their weights and leave half or 75 percent of the
food out as recommended on the bag per their weights. You have to adjust
this a little depending on how much canned food they eat. For example,
if they eat 60 % canned and 40 % dry leave not much more than 40 % of
the dry good available for them to eat.


I've pondered starting out with mixing half regular and half-diet until
they're out of the regular food and then substituting diet food into their
feeder for a while and see how that works (will Luna just eat more of it?).
We've started instituting play periods every night with a laser pointer
(we're currently trying to find a AA or AAA battery model since the tiny
batteries are expensive) and other toys to help them become more active. Is
this a good transition idea or should I go straight for rationed eating?

The usual recommendation is to ease them into the food gradually like this:

New food Old Food
25 % 75 %
50 % 50 %
75 % 25 %
100 % 0 %

Do each of the first three for 3 or 4 days each. At the last one they
should be all on the new food.


When we do portion control, I've already figured out that they're going to
need separate bowls. With treats, catnip, and everything else, Luna will
eat his first and then go after Mina's. She's a slower and pickier eater
and will always defer to him at the food bowl (not to mention he seriously
outweighs her). Will this persist or will she get more of a backbone if
she's hungry and he's going after her food every day? How far do I need to
go to separate the bowls? Are we going to need to supervise?

You are probably going to have to separate them or somehow make the
bowls inaccessible to the other.

What diet food should I feed them? I love Eukanuba, but we simply can't
afford it at the moment. We've been feeding them a brand from Sam's Club
(Exceed I think its called) that had a similar formulation to Eukanuba. I
didn't notice any diet food at Sam's so I'll have to go to Wal-Mart or Petco
(no local Petsmart). They've never been overly picky so I don't think the
change in food will bother either of them. I want something of good
quality, but I don't know what to look for and I can't afford the premium
brands (although if its rationed, premium food might be more reasonable down
the road but not for the first few months).

You can try Nutro, Iams, Science Diet which are pretty good. You might
find other brands available at Walmart/Petco that will work out as well.
Petco also has a program called "Petco Pals" where once you buy a
certain number of bags of food you get a free bag. This also might help
the food budget if this program is available in your area at Petco.

Next, what portions should I feed them? Luna is over 25 lbs (but he is a
massive cat by nature), so will he need a little more than Mina (normal
sized cat)? Are there any portion guidelines? How often should I feed
them - morning and night? When they were kittens, they were fed three times
a day, but we're not always home. And what should we do if we're going to

My cats usually want to eat or nibble their food three to five times a day.

Any suggestions would be more than welcome. I'm worried about my cats'
health and I want to get them back on track. I'm googling for website
advice, but any personal experiences would probably be more helpful. And am
I just hormonal or will all these changes (no bedroom, diet, and new baby)
going to be too much for them to deal with at one time?


A vet checked is recommended as well. Your vet might have some
suggestions, and maybe it will ease your mind a little.

jjmoreta said:

Luna is a 4 year old male and is a Maine Coon/tabby mix. He's the one I'm
worried about the most. He's a very large and muscular cat, but in the past
few months I have increasingly noticed that he is having problems with his
weight. He can't jump as well as he used to, he has no stamina for playing
(won't even chase his sister all the way down the hall anymore), and his
grooming has suffered (particularly on his back). He is the dominant cat in
the household and I have noticed over the years that he is an emotional
eater. If he feels less dominant or threatened or depressed, he will go and
eat even if he just ate a short time ago. If one of us walks into the
kitchen where his food is, he'll go eat. He needs to lose at least 2-3
pounds, maybe more (I need to get him on the scale).

It is probably just because of the extra weight but just make a note of
the jumping, lack of stamina, and grooming problems. If after he loses
weight he is still doing those things a vet checkup is in order. Also
increasing their activity level with toys and such will help.


They've both been allowed to have all the dry food they've desired most of
their lives, since that's how my husband's family always did it. I only had
one outside cat, so I went by his advice. We also both used to work second
shift, and they didn't ever really adapt to waking and eating on our
schedule, so not having a hungry cat meowing in my ear at 5am worked at the
time. Now, I'm willing to endure more inconvenience to get my old playful
kitties back.

I would determine both their weights and leave half or 75 percent of the
food out as recommended on the bag per their weights. You have to adjust
this a little depending on how much canned food they eat. For example,
if they eat 60 % canned and 40 % dry leave not much more than 40 % of
the dry good available for them to eat.


I've pondered starting out with mixing half regular and half-diet until
they're out of the regular food and then substituting diet food into their
feeder for a while and see how that works (will Luna just eat more of it?).
We've started instituting play periods every night with a laser pointer
(we're currently trying to find a AA or AAA battery model since the tiny
batteries are expensive) and other toys to help them become more active. Is
this a good transition idea or should I go straight for rationed eating?

The usual recommendation is to ease them into the food gradually like this:

New food Old Food
25 % 75 %
50 % 50 %
75 % 25 %
100 % 0 %

Do each of the first three for 3 or 4 days each. At the last one they
should be all on the new food.


When we do portion control, I've already figured out that they're going to
need separate bowls. With treats, catnip, and everything else, Luna will
eat his first and then go after Mina's. She's a slower and pickier eater
and will always defer to him at the food bowl (not to mention he seriously
outweighs her). Will this persist or will she get more of a backbone if
she's hungry and he's going after her food every day? How far do I need to
go to separate the bowls? Are we going to need to supervise?

You are probably going to have to separate them or somehow make the
bowls inaccessible to the other.

What diet food should I feed them? I love Eukanuba, but we simply can't
afford it at the moment. We've been feeding them a brand from Sam's Club
(Exceed I think its called) that had a similar formulation to Eukanuba. I
didn't notice any diet food at Sam's so I'll have to go to Wal-Mart or Petco
(no local Petsmart). They've never been overly picky so I don't think the
change in food will bother either of them. I want something of good
quality, but I don't know what to look for and I can't afford the premium
brands (although if its rationed, premium food might be more reasonable down
the road but not for the first few months).

You can try Nutro, Iams, Science Diet which are pretty good. You might
find other brands available at Walmart/Petco that will work out as well.
Petco also has a program called "Petco Pals" where once you buy a
certain number of bags of food you get a free bag. This also might help
the food budget if this program is available in your area at Petco.

Next, what portions should I feed them? Luna is over 25 lbs (but he is a
massive cat by nature), so will he need a little more than Mina (normal
sized cat)? Are there any portion guidelines? How often should I feed
them - morning and night? When they were kittens, they were fed three times
a day, but we're not always home. And what should we do if we're going to

My cats usually want to eat or nibble their food three to five times a day.

Any suggestions would be more than welcome. I'm worried about my cats'
health and I want to get them back on track. I'm googling for website
advice, but any personal experiences would probably be more helpful. And am
I just hormonal or will all these changes (no bedroom, diet, and new baby)
going to be too much for them to deal with at one time?


A vet checked is recommended as well. Your vet might have some
suggestions, and maybe it will ease your mind a little.

jjmoreta said:

Luna is a 4 year old male and is a Maine Coon/tabby mix. He's the one I'm
worried about the most. He's a very large and muscular cat, but in the past
few months I have increasingly noticed that he is having problems with his
weight. He can't jump as well as he used to, he has no stamina for playing
(won't even chase his sister all the way down the hall anymore), and his
grooming has suffered (particularly on his back). He is the dominant cat in
the household and I have noticed over the years that he is an emotional
eater. If he feels less dominant or threatened or depressed, he will go and
eat even if he just ate a short time ago. If one of us walks into the
kitchen where his food is, he'll go eat. He needs to lose at least 2-3
pounds, maybe more (I need to get him on the scale).

It is probably just because of the extra weight but just make a note of
the jumping, lack of stamina, and grooming problems. If after he loses
weight he is still doing those things a vet checkup is in order. Also
increasing their activity level with toys and such will help.


They've both been allowed to have all the dry food they've desired most of
their lives, since that's how my husband's family always did it. I only had
one outside cat, so I went by his advice. We also both used to work second
shift, and they didn't ever really adapt to waking and eating on our
schedule, so not having a hungry cat meowing in my ear at 5am worked at the
time. Now, I'm willing to endure more inconvenience to get my old playful
kitties back.

I would determine both their weights and leave half or 75 percent of the
food out as recommended on the bag per their weights. You have to adjust
this a little depending on how much canned food they eat. For example,
if they eat 60 % canned and 40 % dry leave not much more than 40 % of
the dry good available for them to eat.


I've pondered starting out with mixing half regular and half-diet until
they're out of the regular food and then substituting diet food into their
feeder for a while and see how that works (will Luna just eat more of it?).
We've started instituting play periods every night with a laser pointer
(we're currently trying to find a AA or AAA battery model since the tiny
batteries are expensive) and other toys to help them become more active. Is
this a good transition idea or should I go straight for rationed eating?

The usual recommendation is to ease them into the food gradually like this:

New food Old Food
25 % 75 %
50 % 50 %
75 % 25 %
100 % 0 %

Do each of the first three for 3 or 4 days each. At the last one they
should be all on the new food.


When we do portion control, I've already figured out that they're going to
need separate bowls. With treats, catnip, and everything else, Luna will
eat his first and then go after Mina's. She's a slower and pickier eater
and will always defer to him at the food bowl (not to mention he seriously
outweighs her). Will this persist or will she get more of a backbone if
she's hungry and he's going after her food every day? How far do I need to
go to separate the bowls? Are we going to need to supervise?

You are probably going to have to separate them or somehow make the
bowls inaccessible to the other.

What diet food should I feed them? I love Eukanuba, but we simply can't
afford it at the moment. We've been feeding them a brand from Sam's Club
(Exceed I think its called) that had a similar formulation to Eukanuba. I
didn't notice any diet food at Sam's so I'll have to go to Wal-Mart or Petco
(no local Petsmart). They've never been overly picky so I don't think the
change in food will bother either of them. I want something of good
quality, but I don't know what to look for and I can't afford the premium
brands (although if its rationed, premium food might be more reasonable down
the road but not for the first few months).

You can try Nutro, Iams, Science Diet which are pretty good. You might
find other brands available at Walmart/Petco that will work out as well.
Petco also has a program called "Petco Pals" where once you buy a
certain number of bags of food you get a free bag. This also might help
the food budget if this program is available in your area at Petco.

Next, what portions should I feed them? Luna is over 25 lbs (but he is a
massive cat by nature), so will he need a little more than Mina (normal
sized cat)? Are there any portion guidelines? How often should I feed
them - morning and night? When they were kittens, they were fed three times
a day, but we're not always home. And what should we do if we're going to

My cats usually want to eat or nibble their food three to five times a day.

Any suggestions would be more than welcome. I'm worried about my cats'
health and I want to get them back on track. I'm googling for website
advice, but any personal experiences would probably be more helpful. And am
I just hormonal or will all these changes (no bedroom, diet, and new baby)
going to be too much for them to deal with at one time?


A vet checked is recommended as well. Your vet might have some
suggestions, and maybe it will ease your mind a little.

"jjmoreta" wrote in message
...

snipped for brevity


They've both been allowed to have all the dry food they've desired most of
their lives,

Free-feeding rarely, if ever, works for weight loss or for maintaining ideal
body weight after a cat has lost weight - even with the best light or
low-calorie diet. For a weight loss program to be successful, its
absolutely critical to know how many calories your cat is consuming. Thise
can only be accomplished with measured portions.

The next step is to deternime how many calories your cat needs to maintain
her present weight. The general guide for adult, neutered, moderately
active cats is ~45 kcals/kgBW/day. For example, the daily energy
requirement (DER) for a 5.5 kg (12 lbs) cat is about 247 kcals/day.

The next step is to determine how many calories you cat needs to maintain
her ideal body weight. For example, if your cat's ideal body weight would
be 4 kg (8.8 lbs), her DER would be ~180 kcals/day.
.. .
In this example, a *safe* weight loss program would be a 25 to 28% reduction
in caloric intake or 180 to 185 kcals a day and allow no less than 4 weeks
for each pound of weight loss. *Never* reduce your cat's caloric intake to
less than 70% of her present caloric intake or allow her to lose more one
pound in 4 weeks without explicit instructions from your vet. Cats can
develop a very serious liver disorder if they lose too much weight to
rapidly.

This is a "generic" weight loss program that may or may not be appropriate
for your cat. *Before* beginning this or any weight loss program for your
cat, please discuss it with your vet. Some cats have an underlying
condition (e.g., heart, metabolic) that may be responsible for weight gain
and require a special program.


time. Now, I'm willing to endure more inconvenience to get my old playful
kitties back.

Weight loss programs for two or more cats in the same household are indeed
problematic. The only two solutions that I know of are feeding the cats
separately or finding two foods of which each cat only likes one so they
don't eat each others' food. The later is risky.

Sometimes food can be placed inside a box with a small entrance through
which only one of the cats can fit. But this technique doesn't stop the
smaller cat from eating the larger cat's food. The same shortcommings apply
to placing food in a high area that only one cat can get to. Again, the
climber can still eat the others food. So the only tried and true method is
feeding the cats seperately.

Diet and feeding plan are only two factors for successful a weight loss
program. The other two factors are critical, which are owner commitment
and consistency. You must commit yourself to following you cats' weight
loss program and you must be consistent. That means no "rewards" unless
their caloric value is included in your cats' total DER and no deviations
from the program.

Noticing gradual weight loss (or gain) in cat you see every day is
difficult - especially in long-haired cats, so its very easy to get
frustrated and feel you're not making any progress. If your finances
permit, I highly recommend purxhasing a good pediatric scale with
claibrations down to at least 1/2 ounce. A scale will not only help you
monitor you cats' progress, its also an early warning indicator of disease.
A scale will alert you to subtle loss before it becomes obvious. A good
pediatric scale is one of the best investments you can make in your cats'
life-long health care.

Good luck.

Phil