FIP cat?

Hello all,
our cat 8-10 years old suddenly developed some disease: it started from
severe vomiting, fever and jaundicing. He was previously fat and was
slowly loosing wait last months when hot days come. That weight loss
didn't concern us as he stayed active or somewhat become even more
active.
We went to the vet who run blood test and said that it shows high
bilirubin level; FeLeuk/FIV (Feline viral 2-Eliza) and Feline
Hemobartonella both negative. Possible causes were called: liver tumor,
bile duct obstruction or infectious agents. We were given two
alternatives: hospitalization (prohibitevely expensive) or euthanasia.
Vet didn't mention FIP though.
He was given Clavamox for a week. Now his fever is gone, jaundice is
dicreased but he is very weak (lies almost without movement all the
time) and can't even coordinate his back legs when he decides to make
couple steps. He hasn't eaten or drinked by himself for about 10 days
now. We started to give him water since the 2 day using syringe without
a needle. We also started to give him some food after about a week and
second visit to a vet. When he urinated couple times urine had unusual
bright yellow color, smell and was thick due to dehydration, probably.
Our most concern is that in the course of the last two days his belly
visibly increased in size. This was the reason for a second vet visit.
Vet performed physical examination, found that temperature is lower
than normal but didn't feel any unusual objects in his abdomen. He has
lost 3 kilos from 7 to 4 over period of 8 months and I think, 2 of them
in the last 10 days.
Can somebody shed some light on what can we do to help him? We're
inexperienced owners and cat himself was given us at the age of 4-5, so
his previous history is unknown. Your help is greately appreciated.

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello all,
our cat 8-10 years old suddenly developed some disease: it started from
severe vomiting, fever and jaundicing. He was previously fat and was
slowly loosing wait last months when hot days come. That weight loss
didn't concern us as he stayed active or somewhat become even more
active.
We went to the vet who run blood test and said that it shows high
bilirubin level; FeLeuk/FIV (Feline viral 2-Eliza) and Feline
Hemobartonella both negative. Possible causes were called: liver tumor,
bile duct obstruction or infectious agents. We were given two
alternatives: hospitalization (prohibitevely expensive) or euthanasia.
Vet didn't mention FIP though.
He was given Clavamox for a week. Now his fever is gone, jaundice is
dicreased but he is very weak (lies almost without movement all the
time) and can't even coordinate his back legs when he decides to make
couple steps. He hasn't eaten or drinked by himself for about 10 days
now. We started to give him water since the 2 day using syringe without
a needle. We also started to give him some food after about a week and
second visit to a vet. When he urinated couple times urine had unusual
bright yellow color, smell and was thick due to dehydration, probably.
Our most concern is that in the course of the last two days his belly
visibly increased in size. This was the reason for a second vet visit.
Vet performed physical examination, found that temperature is lower
than normal but didn't feel any unusual objects in his abdomen. He has
lost 3 kilos from 7 to 4 over period of 8 months and I think, 2 of them
in the last 10 days.
Can somebody shed some light on what can we do to help him? We're
inexperienced owners and cat himself was given us at the age of 4-5, so
his previous history is unknown. Your help is greately appreciated.

I haven't seen the bloodwork, but it sounds like Hepatic Lipidosis (Fatty
Liver Syndrome) possibly secondary to pancreatitis. You can find out more
about this disease he
http://www.maxshouse.com/Feline_Hepatic_Lipidosis.htm I hope this is all it
is.

HL is reversible in 80% of the cases but requires aggressive nutritional
support- usually enteral nutrition efficiently and consistently using a
high-protein, calorie-*dense diet and feeding by the least stressful means
possible until the cat is willing to eat sufficient amounts of food on his
own. In many cases, feeding through a nasoesophageal tube for 3-5 days is
enough to jump-start his appetite. However, in most cases, feeding must be
accomplished through a PEG tube (percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy tube).
These tubes can be placed without surgery.

If your vet hasn't mentioned HL and tube feeding, I strongly suggest you
seek a second opinion.

Best of luck,

Phil

Hi, definately check out the liver, I'd say foresure he has a liver
problem. Even if the FIV turned out negative you could get a bone
marrow test, it's pricey and painful but he could have something going
on in there and if it turns into leukemia it will get very complicated.
Good luck, Jacquie

I haven't seen the bloodwork, but it sounds like Hepatic Lipidosis (Fatty
Liver Syndrome) possibly secondary to pancreatitis. You can find out more
about this disease he
http://www.maxshouse.com/Feline_Hepatic_Lipidosis.htm I hope this is all it
is.

Thank you all for your input! I've got his blood test results:
CBC/CC2
Hematology
WBC 26.8
RBC 6.3
Hemoglobin 109
PCV 37
MCV 59
MCH 18
MCHC 298
Platelets 658

Differential
Bands 0.0%
Neutrophils 79.8% (21.3)
Lymphocytes 14.5% (3.9)
Monocytes 2.4% (0.7)
Eosinophils 3.1% (0.8)
Basophils 0.0%

Morphology
WBC Morphology: Neutrophilia
RBC Morphology: Unremarkable
Platelets: Unremarkable

Biochemistry:
Total Protein 71
Albumin 31
Globulin 40
A/G ratio 0.8
Bilirubin (Total) 181.7
ALP 116
ALT 710
Amylase 755
Glucose 13.9
Urea 7.1
Creatinine 90
Sodium 144
Potassium 4.2
Na/K 34
Chloride 110
Hemolysis Normal
Icteria 4+
Lipemia Normal

Immunology results:
FIV antibody ELISA: Negative
FELV Antigen ELISA: Negative
Hemobartonella: Negative

I'd appresiate if someone could provide comments based on these
results. They were taken in most acute time, 2 days after onset. Today
he is still in the same state - very weak but his belly doesn't
increase and may be even decreased in size.

Mike wrote:
I haven't seen the bloodwork, but it sounds like Hepatic Lipidosis (Fatty
Liver Syndrome) possibly secondary to pancreatitis. You can find out more
about this disease he
http://www.maxshouse.com/Feline_Hepatic_Lipidosis.htm I hope this is all it
is.

Thank you all for your input! I've got his blood test results:
CBC/CC2
Hematology
WBC 26.8
RBC 6.3
Hemoglobin 109
PCV 37
MCV 59
MCH 18
MCHC 298
Platelets 658

Differential
Bands 0.0%
Neutrophils 79.8% (21.3)
Lymphocytes 14.5% (3.9)
Monocytes 2.4% (0.7)
Eosinophils 3.1% (0.8)
Basophils 0.0%

Morphology
WBC Morphology: Neutrophilia
RBC Morphology: Unremarkable
Platelets: Unremarkable

Biochemistry:
Total Protein 71
Albumin 31
Globulin 40
A/G ratio 0.8
Bilirubin (Total) 181.7
ALP 116
ALT 710
Amylase 755
Glucose 13.9
Urea 7.1
Creatinine 90
Sodium 144
Potassium 4.2
Na/K 34
Chloride 110
Hemolysis Normal
Icteria 4+
Lipemia Normal

Immunology results:
FIV antibody ELISA: Negative
FELV Antigen ELISA: Negative
Hemobartonella: Negative

I'd appresiate if someone could provide comments based on these
results. They were taken in most acute time, 2 days after onset. Today
he is still in the same state - very weak but his belly doesn't
increase and may be even decreased in size.

The Hemoglobin looks a little low, and looks like he could stand a
little more
Eosinophils. Other than these, I would try to get the MCHC up to at
least 300 pts, or not.

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
I haven't seen the bloodwork, but it sounds like Hepatic Lipidosis
(Fatty
Liver Syndrome) possibly secondary to pancreatitis. You can find out
more
about this disease he
http://www.maxshouse.com/Feline_Hepatic_Lipidosis.htm I hope this is
all it
is.

Thank you all for your input! I've got his blood test results:
CBC/CC2
Hematology
WBC 26.8
RBC 6.3
Hemoglobin 109
PCV 37
MCV 59
MCH 18
MCHC 298
Platelets 658

Differential
Bands 0.0%
Neutrophils 79.8% (21.3)
Lymphocytes 14.5% (3.9)
Monocytes 2.4% (0.7)
Eosinophils 3.1% (0.8)
Basophils 0.0%

Morphology
WBC Morphology: Neutrophilia
RBC Morphology: Unremarkable
Platelets: Unremarkable

Biochemistry:
Total Protein 71
Albumin 31
Globulin 40
A/G ratio 0.8

The A:G ratio of 0.8 rules out FIP. Alb., Glob., TP- are all too low for
FIP.



Bilirubin (Total) 181.7
ALP 116
ALT 710
Amylase 755
Glucose 13.9
Urea 7.1
Creatinine 90
Sodium 144
Potassium 4.2
Na/K 34
Chloride 110
Hemolysis Normal
Icteria 4+
Lipemia Normal


The liver enzymes indicate a liver problem. Probably HL. Speak to your vet
about a fine needle aspirate of liver cells- its not very expensive and
minimally invasive (just a needle).



Immunology results:
FIV antibody ELISA: Negative
FELV Antigen ELISA: Negative
Hemobartonella: Negative

I'd appresiate if someone could provide comments based on these
results. They were taken in most acute time, 2 days after onset. Today
he is still in the same state - very weak but his belly doesn't
increase and may be even decreased in size.

The most important thing right now is *nutritional support*. He probably
needs a feeding tube, but you can try to stimulate his appetite with tuna
(packed in water) and/or canned kitten food. Both are packed with protein
and highly palatable.

Best of luck,

Phil

"biggerbadderbarry" wrote in message
ups.com...


Mike wrote:
I haven't seen the bloodwork, but it sounds like Hepatic Lipidosis
(Fatty
Liver Syndrome) possibly secondary to pancreatitis. You can find out
more
about this disease he
http://www.maxshouse.com/Feline_Hepatic_Lipidosis.htm I hope this is
all it
is.

Thank you all for your input! I've got his blood test results:
CBC/CC2
Hematology
WBC 26.8
RBC 6.3
Hemoglobin 109
PCV 37
MCV 59
MCH 18
MCHC 298
Platelets 658

Differential
Bands 0.0%
Neutrophils 79.8% (21.3)
Lymphocytes 14.5% (3.9)
Monocytes 2.4% (0.7)
Eosinophils 3.1% (0.8)
Basophils 0.0%

Morphology
WBC Morphology: Neutrophilia
RBC Morphology: Unremarkable
Platelets: Unremarkable

Biochemistry:
Total Protein 71
Albumin 31
Globulin 40
A/G ratio 0.8
Bilirubin (Total) 181.7
ALP 116
ALT 710
Amylase 755
Glucose 13.9
Urea 7.1
Creatinine 90
Sodium 144
Potassium 4.2
Na/K 34
Chloride 110
Hemolysis Normal
Icteria 4+
Lipemia Normal

Immunology results:
FIV antibody ELISA: Negative
FELV Antigen ELISA: Negative
Hemobartonella: Negative

I'd appresiate if someone could provide comments based on these
results. They were taken in most acute time, 2 days after onset. Today
he is still in the same state - very weak but his belly doesn't
increase and may be even decreased in size.

The Hemoglobin looks a little low, and looks like he could stand a
little more
Eosinophils. Other than these, I would try to get the MCHC up to at
least 300 pts, or not.


Ignore this. He's the village idiot.

I'd appresiate if someone could provide comments based on these
results. They were taken in most acute time, 2 days after onset. Today
he is still in the same state - very weak but his belly doesn't
increase and may be even decreased in size.

The most important thing right now is *nutritional support*. He probably
needs a feeding tube, but you can try to stimulate his appetite with tuna
(packed in water) and/or canned kitten food. Both are packed with protein
and highly palatable.

Best of luck,

Phil

Phil, you're great!
I've read article you recommended on HL and I've also got email from
one of the members of this group supporting HL diagnosis. As a matter
of fact I was syringe feeding him small amounts of mixture made of
water and pure whey protein on idea to support his life, I wasn't aware
of HL before my post here. It seems to work - yesterday night I gave
him additional 30 mL of mixture made of water/AD cat food given us by
second vet/whey protein since I've found that he is not getting enough
to reverse HL. Today in the morning I haven't found him at the place
where I left him for night - he walked (!) by himself to the staircase
and was sleeping on the second stair. He slept there
before this all started. So, it seems he is getting better, thanks to
you and that person who sent me very discriptive articles on syringe
feeding. I did figure that the person who made a comment on blood test
didn't make any sense. I'm not a doctor but it still didn't look quite
right. Hope others won't be confused either thanks to your reply.

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'd appresiate if someone could provide comments based on these
results. They were taken in most acute time, 2 days after onset. Today
he is still in the same state - very weak but his belly doesn't
increase and may be even decreased in size.

The most important thing right now is *nutritional support*. He
probably
needs a feeding tube, but you can try to stimulate his appetite with
tuna
(packed in water) and/or canned kitten food. Both are packed with
protein
and highly palatable.

Best of luck,

Phil

Phil, you're great!
I've read article you recommended on HL and I've also got email from
one of the members of this group supporting HL diagnosis. As a matter
of fact I was syringe feeding him small amounts of mixture made of
water and pure whey protein on idea to support his life, I wasn't aware
of HL before my post here. It seems to work - yesterday night I gave
him additional 30 mL of mixture made of water/AD cat food given us by
second vet/whey protein since I've found that he is not getting enough
to reverse HL. Today in the morning I haven't found him at the place
where I left him for night - he walked (!) by himself to the staircase
and was sleeping on the second stair. He slept there
before this all started. So, it seems he is getting better, thanks to
you and that person who sent me very discriptive articles on syringe
feeding. I did figure that the person who made a comment on blood test
didn't make any sense. I'm not a doctor but it still didn't look quite
right. Hope others won't be confused either thanks to your reply.

Mike,

I'm really happy he's improving, but I'm a little nervous about syringe
feeding at this point. Force feeding is usually not a good idea for HL
cats. Even if your cat is cooperative, its virtually impossible to feed
enough food by this method. Also, HL cats are already very stressed and
force-feeding is very stressful, - additional stress should be avoided at
all costs. Cats also seem to develop food aversions pretty quickly-- and
the association between food and the unpleasant experience of force-feeding
might delay his return to eating voluntarily. So, in the clinical phase of
the disease the only reliable and effective treatment option is tube
feeding.

If you absolutely must force-feed him rather than tube-feeding, you must
make sure you're meeting his daily caloric requirement- about 45
kcals/kg/day. Science Diet Kitten food contains more protein and calories
(kcals) than a/d (Kit: 210 kcals/can 10.5 g protein/100 kcals; a/d: 180
kcals/can, 9 g protein/100 kcals). Kitten is also more palatable than a/d-
which means there's a good chance that he'll return to eating voluntarily
sooner on SD Kitten than a/d. You can also add a little NutiCal to the SD
Kitten to boost his caloric intake even further without increasing abdominal
distention and risking vomiting. Several small feedings are better than 2
or 3 large feedings. Just be sure to feed him s l o w l y so he doesn't
choke or aspirate the food into his lungs.

There's a gap (diastema) just behind his canine teeth (between the canine
and premolars) where the tip of a syringe fits perfectly without having to
force open his mouth. Feeding him through the diastema is much easier for
you and a lot less stressful for him than struggling to open his mouth.
There's also less of a risk of him aspirating the food. Here's a picture of
the diastema:

http://www.maxshouse.com/anatomy/man...edial_view.jpg

I've found the Top Paws Mothering Kit syringe much better than medical
syringes. Here what it looks like:

http://www.maxshouse.com/Illustratio...eeding_kit.jpg

Also, you can cut off a little the tip of the syringe to make the hole a
little bigger. Puree the SD Kitten just enough to pass through the syringe-
you don't want him to become bloated with water. SD Kitten contains enough
moisture to meet practically all his daily water needs.

If he does have HL, and you caught it in the early stages, syringe-feeding
might work. But if you can't get his daily caloric requirement into him
everyday- speak to your vet about a nasoesophageal tube.

Best of luck,

Phil

Phil, I'm sorry to write this but today I agreed to put my cat to
sleep. Last week he was slowly improving by getting A/D and then S/D
food until Thursday when he started to vomit again and became weaker
and weaker. I tried boiled rice on idea of possible pancreatitis but it
didn't work - he was getting worse. Today I tried to wash his paws that
is a stress, I know but I had to do something since he was urinating
under himself and wiping it out wasn't enough. Anyway, he lost
consciousness and stopped breathing for 5-10 seconds. He then came back
and I decided to go to the third vet to get yet another opinion. Upon
physical examination she said that she found some "object" in the liver
area that "is not supposed to be there" and week ago another vet didn't
feel anything there either. She said that HL is not the main reason for
her recommendation but that he probably has a tumor and in order to
confirm that she needs to perform biopsy but he wouldn't survive the
procedure. He lost about 600 grams for this week too.
I hope, I did everything I could and used every chance he had to
bring him back. Thank you for your time and all valuable information
you provided.