help devising a feeding plan for senior cat who needs to lose weight--please....

My brother's cat is seriously obese. He's a big cat, and would probably
still be about 15 lbs if he were normal, but he sits at about 23 lbs right
now. My brother says Shiro has a slow metabolism--I'm not sure if this was
a vet's diagnosis, or his own--so he feeds him only 230 kcal/day. Now, I
have figured out that a neutered inactive cat requires about 18.9 kcal/lb,
so a 23 lb cat would require 435 kcal/day. Assuming Shiro's initial goal is
20 lbs, then he would require 378 kcal/day. However, if I also factor in
that Shiro has a slow metabolism, and is a senior cat (he's about 7 or 8
years old), then how many kcals should he be getting each day?

Also what would be the best course of action in this case, regarding his
feeding? Should we lower his current intake even more (this is what my
brother wants to do), or bring it up to, say, 350 kcal? If his metabolism
has slowed because of getting too few kcals, how long will it take for his
metabolism to readjust? He'll obviously gain weight for a while if we raise
his caloric intake, right?

I think the reason Shiro has not been losing weight is because he has been
getting too few kcals and his metabolism has slowed down even more. Because
of this, he is probably not having his nutritional requirements met. Until
we figure out what to do about his weight, are there any good nutritional
suplements out there?

Shiro seriously needs some help. Would anyone out there be able to offer
some advice?

rona

--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" wrote in message
...
My brother's cat is seriously obese. He's a big cat, and would probably
still be about 15 lbs if he were normal, but he sits at about 23 lbs right
now. My brother says Shiro has a slow metabolism--I'm not sure if this
was
a vet's diagnosis, or his own--so he feeds him only 230 kcal/day. Now, I
have figured out that a neutered inactive cat requires about 18.9 kcal/lb,
so a 23 lb cat would require 435 kcal/day. Assuming Shiro's initial goal
is
20 lbs, then he would require 378 kcal/day. However, if I also factor in
that Shiro has a slow metabolism, and is a senior cat (he's about 7 or 8
years old), then how many kcals should he be getting each day?

Also what would be the best course of action in this case, regarding his
feeding? Should we lower his current intake even more (this is what my
brother wants to do), or bring it up to, say, 350 kcal? If his metabolism
has slowed because of getting too few kcals, how long will it take for his
metabolism to readjust? He'll obviously gain weight for a while if we
raise
his caloric intake, right?

I think the reason Shiro has not been losing weight is because he has been
getting too few kcals and his metabolism has slowed down even more.
Because
of this, he is probably not having his nutritional requirements met.
Until
we figure out what to do about his weight, are there any good nutritional
suplements out there?

Shiro seriously needs some help. Would anyone out there be able to offer
some advice?

rona

--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***



Rona,

First, I would like to point out that I have absolutely no expertise in this
area. In all the years I have had cats, I have not had to deal with
obesity. So, for what it is worth ... I only have a couple of comments
that *logically* occur to me, and I hope some others on this group will be
more specific.

One thing that immediately occurred to me after seeing your comment that
your brother wants to severely reduce kcals is that I think this is
dangerous. I think he should approach this with an idea of moderation and
very slow weight loss, much in the same way as we would *ideally* do with
humans. Very rapid weight loss can cause other problems that may be even
more detrimental than obesity.

Next (and you have already pointed in this direction), I suspect that the
*low metabolism* may be your brother's own diagnosis, in the same way that
many people talk of low metabolism when the real problem is too many
calories and/or too little exercise. (I must unfortunately place myself in
the last category!) If a vet has actually diagnosed low metabolism (and not
simply *guessed* at it), then I think the vet should be specific on what
treatment is needed.

You have already talked about food intake. More exercise would also be
excellent. Does your brother have a laser pointer? Many cats love it, and
they certainly get some good quality exercise -- and pleasure -- while they
scramble after the little red dot.

Last, is your brother feeding a good quality food? I would recommend canned
food only and not dry food, and certainly not free feeding (but I would
expect that there is no free feeding already, given the very limited
quantities you mentioned). I use Wellness canned and Felidae canned. Each
of my cats gets 2/3 of a can (6 oz. or 5.5 oz. cans depending on brand)
twice a day, and their weight holds steady. However, one of my cats weighs
8 lbs. and the other weighs 9 lbs. -- so this now gets us back to your
question of how to calculate portion size, which I hope some others on this
group will address for you.

Good luck!

MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o'
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" wrote in message
...
My brother's cat is seriously obese. He's a big cat, and would probably
still be about 15 lbs if he were normal, but he sits at about 23 lbs right
now. My brother says Shiro has a slow metabolism--I'm not sure if this
was
a vet's diagnosis, or his own--so he feeds him only 230 kcal/day. Now, I
have figured out that a neutered inactive cat requires about 18.9 kcal/lb,
so a 23 lb cat would require 435 kcal/day. Assuming Shiro's initial goal
is
20 lbs, then he would require 378 kcal/day. However, if I also factor in
that Shiro has a slow metabolism, and is a senior cat (he's about 7 or 8
years old), then how many kcals should he be getting each day?

Also what would be the best course of action in this case, regarding his
feeding? Should we lower his current intake even more (this is what my
brother wants to do), or bring it up to, say, 350 kcal? If his metabolism
has slowed because of getting too few kcals, how long will it take for his
metabolism to readjust? He'll obviously gain weight for a while if we
raise
his caloric intake, right?

I think the reason Shiro has not been losing weight is because he has been
getting too few kcals and his metabolism has slowed down even more.
Because
of this, he is probably not having his nutritional requirements met.
Until
we figure out what to do about his weight, are there any good nutritional
suplements out there?

Shiro seriously needs some help. Would anyone out there be able to offer
some advice?

rona

--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***



Rona,

First, I would like to point out that I have absolutely no expertise in this
area. In all the years I have had cats, I have not had to deal with
obesity. So, for what it is worth ... I only have a couple of comments
that *logically* occur to me, and I hope some others on this group will be
more specific.

One thing that immediately occurred to me after seeing your comment that
your brother wants to severely reduce kcals is that I think this is
dangerous. I think he should approach this with an idea of moderation and
very slow weight loss, much in the same way as we would *ideally* do with
humans. Very rapid weight loss can cause other problems that may be even
more detrimental than obesity.

Next (and you have already pointed in this direction), I suspect that the
*low metabolism* may be your brother's own diagnosis, in the same way that
many people talk of low metabolism when the real problem is too many
calories and/or too little exercise. (I must unfortunately place myself in
the last category!) If a vet has actually diagnosed low metabolism (and not
simply *guessed* at it), then I think the vet should be specific on what
treatment is needed.

You have already talked about food intake. More exercise would also be
excellent. Does your brother have a laser pointer? Many cats love it, and
they certainly get some good quality exercise -- and pleasure -- while they
scramble after the little red dot.

Last, is your brother feeding a good quality food? I would recommend canned
food only and not dry food, and certainly not free feeding (but I would
expect that there is no free feeding already, given the very limited
quantities you mentioned). I use Wellness canned and Felidae canned. Each
of my cats gets 2/3 of a can (6 oz. or 5.5 oz. cans depending on brand)
twice a day, and their weight holds steady. However, one of my cats weighs
8 lbs. and the other weighs 9 lbs. -- so this now gets us back to your
question of how to calculate portion size, which I hope some others on this
group will address for you.

Good luck!

MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o'
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

From: "Rona Yuthasastrakosol"

However, if I also factor in
that Shiro has a slow metabolism, and is a senior cat (he's about 7 or 8
years old), then how many kcals should he be getting each day?

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't consider a 7 or 8 year old cat a
senior yet.

Also what would be the best course of action in this case, regarding his
feeding? Should we lower his current intake even more (this is what my
brother wants to do), or bring it up to, say, 350 kcal?

I would be careful about lowering his intake of food too much. Obese cats are
more suspectible to fatty liver disease. I would recommend he consults his vet
for an optimal diet plan. Also, in my experience, free feeding dry food can
often lead to obesity. I don't recall whether or not this is how your
brother's cat is being fed.

I think the reason Shiro has not been losing weight is because he has been
getting too few kcals and his metabolism has slowed down even more. Because
of this, he is probably not having his nutritional requirements met.

I think you're right on this, Rona.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: "Rona Yuthasastrakosol"

However, if I also factor in
that Shiro has a slow metabolism, and is a senior cat (he's about 7 or 8
years old), then how many kcals should he be getting each day?

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't consider a 7 or 8 year old cat a
senior yet.

Also what would be the best course of action in this case, regarding his
feeding? Should we lower his current intake even more (this is what my
brother wants to do), or bring it up to, say, 350 kcal?

I would be careful about lowering his intake of food too much. Obese cats are
more suspectible to fatty liver disease. I would recommend he consults his vet
for an optimal diet plan. Also, in my experience, free feeding dry food can
often lead to obesity. I don't recall whether or not this is how your
brother's cat is being fed.

I think the reason Shiro has not been losing weight is because he has been
getting too few kcals and his metabolism has slowed down even more. Because
of this, he is probably not having his nutritional requirements met.

I think you're right on this, Rona.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...


I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't consider a 7 or 8 year old
cat a
senior yet.

Lauren

I don't, either. Holly is 8-1/2 years old, and she is very active and
vigorous -- truly in her prime. I have had other cats live to a minimum of
16 years and a maximum of almost 20 years (2 months "shy" of 20), so I have
never quite understood the idea that 7 or 8 years is "senior," but that is
how they are shown on medical charts.

MaryL

"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...


I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't consider a 7 or 8 year old
cat a
senior yet.

Lauren

I don't, either. Holly is 8-1/2 years old, and she is very active and
vigorous -- truly in her prime. I have had other cats live to a minimum of
16 years and a maximum of almost 20 years (2 months "shy" of 20), so I have
never quite understood the idea that 7 or 8 years is "senior," but that is
how they are shown on medical charts.

MaryL

"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't consider a 7 or 8 year old
cat a
senior yet.


That's what I thought, too, but many of the charts I looked at had the
seniors at 7-8 years. I would bet that those charts were formulated when
cats had shorter life expectancies, like 20 years ago. I also did a search
on converting cat years to human years (just for fun) and a 7 y.o. cat is
roughly 44 in human years. While not a senior, he'd be middle-aged (an age
when many start to have trouble losing weight). Twelve would be closer to
senior (that would convert to about 64). I don't know how accurate the age
calculator was, though, but it was fun to use!

Also what would be the best course of action in this case, regarding his
feeding? Should we lower his current intake even more (this is what my
brother wants to do), or bring it up to, say, 350 kcal?

I would be careful about lowering his intake of food too much. Obese cats
are
more suspectible to fatty liver disease. I would recommend he consults
his vet
for an optimal diet plan. Also, in my experience, free feeding dry food
can
often lead to obesity. I don't recall whether or not this is how your
brother's cat is being fed.


One of the problems, IMO, is that none of Shiro's vets have been very
helpful with devising a detailed weight loss plan. I think it's in part my
brother and his wife's fault, for not insisting on better care. Of course,
I'm not there so I don't know for certain that they haven't been more
assertive than I think they've been (and I think they probably haven't been
very assertive at all). The last vet just said Shiro was definitely obese,
but as far as I know, offered nothing else in terms of information. I would
have asked how much to feed him, what kind of food would be best, etc. etc.
On that note, if anyone knows of a really good, caring, thorough vet in
Vancouver, WA (or even Portland, OR), please let me know!

I think the vet suggested using a low-cal food, but my problem with those is
that I think they use more filler to make cats' tummies feel fuller. Shiro
doesn't actually eat a lot in terms of volume, so he doesn't really need the
extra filler. He needs nutrients. That's why I would prefer he eat a
regular food rather than a diet food--so he could get more kcal and
nutrients for the same volume.

As for his feeding schedule, he gets 3/4 cup (230 kcal) at night before my
brother goes to bed. If they split his food to two feedings, or feed him
earlier, he disrupts their sleep (imagine a 23 lb cat climbing over you and
sitting on your chest. The little bugger sent me to a physiotherapist for
three months for sleeping on my head!).

I'm having trouble convincing my brother to feed Shiro more. He's convinced
that Shiro has a slow metabolism and that he should feed him less. I think
it's a bad move, but Shiro doesn't live in my house (or even in my country)
so I don't really have much control in the matter. But if I can at least
point my brother to some references, he would probably take those seriously
(he's a science guy--he likes references).

BTW, you can see pictures of Shiro at
http://12.211.33.9:8080/2003_10_30/page_01.htm . Shiro means 'white' in
Japanese :-). This picture
http://12.211.33.9:8080/2003_10_30/livingroom0048.JPG best shows his
corpulence, but it takes forever to download, even with DSL. If you have
dial-up, don't even try it or you'll be on-line for years!

Thanks for the reply!

rona

--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't consider a 7 or 8 year old
cat a
senior yet.


That's what I thought, too, but many of the charts I looked at had the
seniors at 7-8 years. I would bet that those charts were formulated when
cats had shorter life expectancies, like 20 years ago. I also did a search
on converting cat years to human years (just for fun) and a 7 y.o. cat is
roughly 44 in human years. While not a senior, he'd be middle-aged (an age
when many start to have trouble losing weight). Twelve would be closer to
senior (that would convert to about 64). I don't know how accurate the age
calculator was, though, but it was fun to use!

Also what would be the best course of action in this case, regarding his
feeding? Should we lower his current intake even more (this is what my
brother wants to do), or bring it up to, say, 350 kcal?

I would be careful about lowering his intake of food too much. Obese cats
are
more suspectible to fatty liver disease. I would recommend he consults
his vet
for an optimal diet plan. Also, in my experience, free feeding dry food
can
often lead to obesity. I don't recall whether or not this is how your
brother's cat is being fed.


One of the problems, IMO, is that none of Shiro's vets have been very
helpful with devising a detailed weight loss plan. I think it's in part my
brother and his wife's fault, for not insisting on better care. Of course,
I'm not there so I don't know for certain that they haven't been more
assertive than I think they've been (and I think they probably haven't been
very assertive at all). The last vet just said Shiro was definitely obese,
but as far as I know, offered nothing else in terms of information. I would
have asked how much to feed him, what kind of food would be best, etc. etc.
On that note, if anyone knows of a really good, caring, thorough vet in
Vancouver, WA (or even Portland, OR), please let me know!

I think the vet suggested using a low-cal food, but my problem with those is
that I think they use more filler to make cats' tummies feel fuller. Shiro
doesn't actually eat a lot in terms of volume, so he doesn't really need the
extra filler. He needs nutrients. That's why I would prefer he eat a
regular food rather than a diet food--so he could get more kcal and
nutrients for the same volume.

As for his feeding schedule, he gets 3/4 cup (230 kcal) at night before my
brother goes to bed. If they split his food to two feedings, or feed him
earlier, he disrupts their sleep (imagine a 23 lb cat climbing over you and
sitting on your chest. The little bugger sent me to a physiotherapist for
three months for sleeping on my head!).

I'm having trouble convincing my brother to feed Shiro more. He's convinced
that Shiro has a slow metabolism and that he should feed him less. I think
it's a bad move, but Shiro doesn't live in my house (or even in my country)
so I don't really have much control in the matter. But if I can at least
point my brother to some references, he would probably take those seriously
(he's a science guy--he likes references).

BTW, you can see pictures of Shiro at
http://12.211.33.9:8080/2003_10_30/page_01.htm . Shiro means 'white' in
Japanese :-). This picture
http://12.211.33.9:8080/2003_10_30/livingroom0048.JPG best shows his
corpulence, but it takes forever to download, even with DSL. If you have
dial-up, don't even try it or you'll be on-line for years!

Thanks for the reply!

rona

--
***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!***

"Rona Yuthasastrakosol" wrote in message
...
This picture
http://12.211.33.9:8080/2003_10_30/livingroom0048.JPG best shows his
corpulence, but it takes forever to download, even with DSL. If you have
dial-up, don't even try it or you'll be on-line for years!

Actually, this one is even better, but the same warning applies!

http://12.211.33.9:8080/2003_11_05/livingroom0003.JPG

rona
-----
replace .com with .ca to e-mail