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#1
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In or out PT 2
Hi again group.
I've read through all your replies, and I'd like to say thanks for the advice that you all gave. We have decided to keep Beacheeee ( for that is her name) indoors. Well, until spring's really sprung at the very least (April/May time). We'll decide what to do after that when the time comes. I can see the indoor/outdoor issue is quite an emotive one amongst you all. It seems to me that both ways have good and bad points. I am of the opinion (tbh, it's more of a 'feeling') that a cat should be allowed out, but I can see where all you 'indoor' people are coming from regarding the dangers out there. And a fair point you make too. I just feel the cat should be allowed some freedom to come and go. They may be domesticated, but they still need to be the animal that they are, and I can't help feeling that they need to be outside, 'in the wild', to do that. Where I live, there are a lot of cats that I see quite regularly, and have seen them roaming around for many years. That makes me think that it doesn't seem 'too' dangerous around here. Then again, Beacheeee is a pet for my 5 (not far off 6)(tho' she likes to pretend she's 7) year old daughter who just adores her kitten. The last thing I would want is for anything to happen to Beacheeee, as much for Beacheeee's sake as my daughter's. For better or worse, the cat is going to be a member of the family. We've only had her a week and we all adore the little furball!! We have an appt booked at the vets and we'll have everything done that the vet recommends. (I'm also going to take out pet insurance, just in case...) Do you think there could be a happy medium? I mean, I'm wondering, could we keep the cat indoors for a long enough period that, when we do let her out, she wouldn't want to go too far? The roads around here are pretty quiet and it's *very* rare to hear of cats being mistreated (or any other pets for that matter). I mean it does happen, but when you consider the number of cats out there, the chances of it happening to your cat is incredibly slim. Lottery number odds I would say. I was talking to a friends mum, and she was saying she had a neighbour who's cat would be allowed out about dinner time everyday, and would come back around tea-time, for it's tea, and then stay indoors for the rest of the night. Something like that seems ideal to me. Is there any way I could 'engineer' a situation like that? Is there a point where a cat has been indoors so long that it becomes too dangerous to let it out, for the simple reason it's been indoors too long? Once again, I would appreciate your views and advice on this. Thanks guys. |
#2
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In or out PT 2
"Jay Kaner" wrote I just feel the cat should be allowed some freedom to come and go. They may be domesticated, but they still need to be the animal that they are, and I can't help feeling that they need to be outside, 'in the wild', to do that. Where I live, there are a lot of cats that I see quite regularly, and have seen them roaming around for many years. That makes me think that it doesn't seem 'too' dangerous around here. Then again, Beacheeee is a pet for my 5 (not far off 6)(tho' she likes to pretend she's 7) year old daughter who just adores her kitten. The last thing I would want is for anything to happen to Beacheeee, as much for Beacheeee's sake as my daughter's. For better or worse, the cat is going to be a member of the family. We've only had her a week and we all adore the little furball!! We have an appt booked at the vets and we'll have everything done that the vet recommends. (I'm also going to take out pet insurance, just in case...) Do you think there could be a happy medium? First, thank you for your very thoughtful post. I think every cat owner would love to see their cats enjoy the outdoors, if they can do it safely. Many are like me, and grew up with a series of cats that ended in a bloody meaty pile under a shrub having been hit by a care or disemboweled by the neighbor's German Shepherd that happened to get out. It causes strong opinions. Yes, there is a happy medium! A fenced or walled garden/yard with a bit of extra at the top, to keep the cat from leaving your yard, for one! And a cat door! That way Beacheeee might have some freedom and your dear five year old can have her a long time, and learn both the joys of having an animal and the responsibility of keeping it safe. My sister allows her cats and dogs out through a cat door. She is here in the US, in a fairly rural area. Here kittens--siblings--were indoor-only until they were six months old or so, and now when they go out, they *could* leave the fenced in area, but don't. Cats are so trainable. I have a seven-year-old rescue that had been "semi-feral," found pregnant at six months old, apparently having lived outside her whole life. After four months at a no-kill shelter, where she had her kittens, was spayed, and was socialized by the lovely volunteers there, I adopted her. ALL she did was try to get out the first couple of weeks. She weaseled out behind the washer, got in to the earthen basement and out in the yard, which, though fenced, was scalable. We chased her until she ran back in the back door! She was 7 pounds of wirey muscle, totally slippery, it was hilarious trying to hold her when she wanted to get away, but--she never put out her claws. Anyway, the last time she got out it was out the front door, which faces on a very busy street here in Raleigh, North Carolina. I saw her escape, and shrieked, immediately imagining her splattered on the road like the squirrels I see every single day. Ran to the door, yelled her name, {okay, yes, I was in tears } and the cat stopped dead in her tracks with a look of alarm on her face, circled the azaleas in front of the front walk and ran BACK IN the house as fast as she could! And she has never tried it again, has been here over five years. What keeps her happy: plenty of big, high screened windows with window seats, and a screened patio door she can lie by and look out of; lots of toys; the company of our other cat; and us. |
#3
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In or out PT 2
"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
... [snip] Is there a point where a cat has been indoors so long that it becomes too dangerous to let it out, for the simple reason it's been indoors too long? It probably depends on the individual cat. My first two cats were strictly indoor cats for the first 7 years of their lives when I lived in a 3rd floor apartment. That was in the 1960s. Then I got married and moved into a house in a suburb. We let the cats outside during the day, inside at night. They adapted well, and both lived to be 18+ years old. Next group of cats (3) were also indoor-outdoor cats. Again we got lucky. They never experienced injuries or disease until old age took them. Now we live in a rural area and I do not let my cats roam. One stray we took in 6 years ago was quite comfortable outside, but once we adopted her she showed no interest in going back outside, although in the last year or so she's gone outside. We let our current crop of cats outside for brief periods under supervision. A stray we adopted in December '05 that had a litter earlier that summer (before she was under our control) and took quite good care of the babies absolutely refuses to go outside now. She has us trained to bring grass inside the house for her to nibble on. I will never let another cat of mine be an outdoor cat or even an unsupervised indoor-outdoor cat, no matter where we live. When our current cats go outside it's under strict supervision and they don't get to stay out long. They're all healthy and appear quite contented. And we have lots of toys and climbing posts for them. I should mention all my cats get spayed or neutered as soon as they're old enough, or as soon as I adopt them, in the case of adult strays. I see no reason to let a cat go outside. As long as there are things to do inside the home, a cat should be quite content. I suppose there are some that won't be, but that hasn't been my experience. Gail F. |
#4
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In or out PT 2
Jay Kaner wrote:
Do you think there could be a happy medium? I mean, I'm wondering, could we keep the cat indoors for a long enough period that, when we do let her out, she wouldn't want to go too far? IMO, the ideal situation is a fenced in yard (fencing needs to be pretty high to avoid the cat getting over if you want to leave her outside unsupervised too), the second best a completely screened in porch. I was talking to a friends mum, and she was saying she had a neighbour who's cat would be allowed out about dinner time everyday, and would come back around tea-time, for it's tea, and then stay indoors for the rest of the night. Something like that seems ideal to me. Is there any way I could 'engineer' a situation like that? My two indoor-outdoor cats are allowed out first thing in the morning until I go to work, and then again when I come home from work until bedtime at the latest. Generally they adhere to those times, but occasionally one of them decides that she wants to stay out all day. I'm pretty adamant about nighttimes, the way I manage it is that they only get fed when they return from their evening tour. Is there a point where a cat has been indoors so long that it becomes too dangerous to let it out, for the simple reason it's been indoors too long? Don't really know. I do believe their instincts are pretty good, but whether they are let out as kittens or adults, gradually have to learn their way around. They just get more tolerance from other outside cats while they are still kittens! Petra |
#5
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In or out PT 2
"Jay Kaner" wrote in message ... Do you think there could be a happy medium? Sure- an outdoor enclosure that your cats can access through a window or door. |
#6
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In or out PT 2
"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
... Hi again group. I've read through all your replies, and I'd like to say thanks for the advice that you all gave. We have decided to keep Beacheeee ( for that is her name) indoors. Well, until spring's really sprung at the very least (April/May time). That's reasonable. She's too young for the winter outside. We'll decide what to do after that when the time comes. I can see the indoor/outdoor issue is quite an emotive one amongst you all. It seems to me that both ways have good and bad points. I am of the opinion (tbh, it's more of a 'feeling') that a cat should be allowed out, but I can see where all you 'indoor' people are coming from regarding the dangers out there. And a fair point you make too. I just feel the cat should be allowed some freedom to come and go. They may be domesticated, but they still need to be the animal that they are, and I can't help feeling that they need to be outside, 'in the wild', to do that. Absolutely. Just make sure she's not outside at night, cause they're predators and natural-born killers, and will kill anything they can get their claws on (birds, rabbits, fish, mice...depends on the cat and availability of pray) which is bad for wildlife around cat's home. And yes, they'll kill even just for fun, even if they're not hungry. Where I live, there are a lot of cats that I see quite regularly, and have seen them roaming around for many years. That makes me think that it doesn't seem 'too' dangerous around here. NYC centre and a village of 50 people is not the same, of course. That's common sense. Then again, Beacheeee is a pet for my 5 (not far off 6)(tho' she likes to pretend she's 7) year old daughter who just adores her kitten. The last thing I would want is for anything to happen to Beacheeee, as much for Beacheeee's sake as my daughter's. For better or worse, the cat is going to be a member of the family. We've only had her a week and we all adore the little furball!! We have an appt booked at the vets and we'll have everything done that the vet recommends. (I'm also going to take out pet insurance, just in case...) Do you think there could be a happy medium? As I was writing before, indoors at night and a couple of hours outside during the day (in an enclosed backyard, not on the street, of course) can't hurt. I mean, I'm wondering, could we keep the cat indoors for a long enough period that, when we do let her out, she wouldn't want to go too far? The roads around here are pretty quiet and it's *very* rare to hear of cats being mistreated (or any other pets for that matter). I mean it does happen, but when you consider the number of cats out there, the chances of it happening to your cat is incredibly slim. Lottery number odds I would say. I was talking to a friends mum, and she was saying she had a neighbour who's cat would be allowed out about dinner time everyday, and would come back around tea-time, for it's tea, and then stay indoors for the rest of the night. Something like that seems ideal to me. Is there any way I could 'engineer' a situation like that? Is there a point where a cat has been indoors so long that it becomes too dangerous to let it out, for the simple reason it's been indoors too long? Something that comes to mind is a cat suddenly let outside during the cold winter, without being able to adapt to temperature change. I don't see other dangerous situations. Once again, I would appreciate your views and advice on this. Thanks guys. Glad to be of help:-) |
#7
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In or out PT 2
"cybercat" wrote First, thank you for your very thoughtful post. I think every cat owner would love to see their cats enjoy the outdoors, if they can do it safely. Many are like me, and grew up with a series of cats that ended in a bloody meaty pile under a shrub having been hit by a care or disemboweled by the neighbor's German Shepherd that happened to get out. It causes strong opinions. Yes, there is a happy medium! A fenced or walled garden/yard with a bit of extra at the top, to keep the cat from leaving your yard, for one! And a cat door! That way Beacheeee might have some freedom and your dear five year old can have her a long time, and learn both the joys of having an animal and the responsibility of keeping it safe. My sister allows her cats and dogs out through a cat door. She is here in the US, in a fairly rural area. Here kittens--siblings--were indoor-only until they were six months old or so, and now when they go out, they *could* leave the fenced in area, but don't. Thanks for that. That's helped me make up my mind on what to do, especially that last sentence. My rear garden is a decent size (60' x 60'). It's completely enclosed with 6' fencing, which was there when we moved in. Years ago, for totally different reasons, I made it as cat prooff as I could. This was to stop the other neighbourhood cats from coming in and doing their 'business' amongst my shrubs and plants (not that it stopped it completely, but it did help up to a point that I was/am happy with). I've given this a lot of thought and have decided that this is what I am going to do. Beacheeee will be spayed before she goes on heat (that's a given). After that she can go into the garden whenever she wants. Beacheeee will have a loving home, with plenty of things to keep her happy indoors. She will be able to go outside more or less whenever she pleases. Now, if she wants to scale a 6' high fence to get outside the garden and into the world beyond, then I'm not going to try to stop her. My thinking is, if a lovely warm and happy home, where there's plenty of food and things to do, and a big enclosed garden isn't enough to stop her *wanting* to go outside, then she obviously really wants to do it, and if that's the case, then fine, I'll let her. To my mind, that's an happy medium. And a fair one Thanks to all who replied. Sorry I haven't got enough time to reply to all, but you all helped in my decision. Thanks again. Cats are so trainable. I have a seven-year-old rescue that had been "semi-feral," found pregnant at six months old, apparently having lived outside her whole life. After four months at a no-kill shelter, where she had her kittens, was spayed, and was socialized by the lovely volunteers there, I adopted her. ALL she did was try to get out the first couple of weeks. She weaseled out behind the washer, got in to the earthen basement and out in the yard, which, though fenced, was scalable. We chased her until she ran back in the back door! She was 7 pounds of wirey muscle, totally slippery, it was hilarious trying to hold her when she wanted to get away, but--she never put out her claws. Anyway, the last time she got out it was out the front door, which faces on a very busy street here in Raleigh, North Carolina. I saw her escape, and shrieked, immediately imagining her splattered on the road like the squirrels I see every single day. Ran to the door, yelled her name, {okay, yes, I was in tears } and the cat stopped dead in her tracks with a look of alarm on her face, circled the azaleas in front of the front walk and ran BACK IN the house as fast as she could! And she has never tried it again, has been here over five years. What keeps her happy: plenty of big, high screened windows with window seats, and a screened patio door she can lie by and look out of; lots of toys; the company of our other cat; and us. |
#8
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In or out PT 2
"Jay Kaner" wrote in message ... Hi again group. I've read through all your replies, and I'd like to say thanks for the advice that you all gave. We have decided to keep Beacheeee ( for that is her name) indoors. Well, until spring's really sprung at the very least (April/May time). We'll decide what to do after that when the time comes. I can see the indoor/outdoor issue is quite an emotive one amongst you all. It seems to me that both ways have good and bad points. I am of the opinion (tbh, it's more of a 'feeling') that a cat should be allowed out, but I can see where all you 'indoor' people are coming from regarding the dangers out there. And a fair point you make too. I just feel the cat should be allowed some freedom to come and go. They may be domesticated, but they still need to be the animal that they are, and I can't help feeling that they need to be outside, 'in the wild', to do that. Where I live, there are a lot of cats that I see quite regularly, and have seen them roaming around for many years. That makes me think that it doesn't seem 'too' dangerous around here. Then again, Beacheeee is a pet for my 5 (not far off 6)(tho' she likes to pretend she's 7) year old daughter who just adores her kitten. The last thing I would want is for anything to happen to Beacheeee, as much for Beacheeee's sake as my daughter's. For better or worse, the cat is going to be a member of the family. We've only had her a week and we all adore the little furball!! We have an appt booked at the vets and we'll have everything done that the vet recommends. (I'm also going to take out pet insurance, just in case...) Do you think there could be a happy medium? I mean, I'm wondering, could we keep the cat indoors for a long enough period that, when we do let her out, she wouldn't want to go too far? The roads around here are pretty quiet and it's *very* rare to hear of cats being mistreated (or any other pets for that matter). I mean it does happen, but when you consider the number of cats out there, the chances of it happening to your cat is incredibly slim. Lottery number odds I would say. I was talking to a friends mum, and she was saying she had a neighbour who's cat would be allowed out about dinner time everyday, and would come back around tea-time, for it's tea, and then stay indoors for the rest of the night. Something like that seems ideal to me. Is there any way I could 'engineer' a situation like that? Is there a point where a cat has been indoors so long that it becomes too dangerous to let it out, for the simple reason it's been indoors too long? Once again, I would appreciate your views and advice on this. Thanks guys. Hi Jay, I have been offline (computer problems) for a few days, but here's something I do with my babies. I just go for 'walkies' with them in the yard. If I have something to do in the yard, I take one or two of them with me. They have a lovely romp, but don't go too far from 'mum' (indoor only cats usually do this, as they were never taught to hunt and roam) This can also be something fun your daughter can do with her kitten. Best of luck to both of you! |
#9
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In or out PT 2
"Jay Kaner" wrote in message ... "cybercat" wrote Beacheeee will be spayed before she goes on heat (that's a given). After that she can go into the garden whenever she wants. Beacheeee will have a loving home, with plenty of things to keep her happy indoors. She will be able to go outside more or less whenever she pleases. Now, if she wants to scale a 6' high fence to get outside the garden and into the world beyond, then I'm not going to try to stop her. My thinking is, if a lovely warm and happy home, where there's plenty of food and things to do, and a big enclosed garden isn't enough to stop her *wanting* to go outside, then she obviously really wants to do it, and if that's the case, then fine, I'll let her. To my mind, that's an happy medium. And a fair one Thanks to all who replied. Sorry I haven't got enough time to reply to all, but you all helped in my decision. Thanks again. They sell fencing that cats can't get in or out of. Why don't you invest in that so that your kitty can't get out and others can't get in to potentially infect your cat with something. Your cat will eventually get older and slower. If you have the young turks coming in your yard it's only a matter of time before you're hauling her off to the vet with a bite wound that has abscessed. I find your resignation about your cat venturing out of your yard depressing. That's like saying if your child decided to play in traffic because he or she let herself out of the fence gate then oh well he/she really wanted to do and if that's the case then fine. I have yet to see a cat look both ways before crossing the street. I have also noticed that the cat will want to investigate where you go. If you ever walk across the street or to a neighbor's house, your cat is likely to want to investigate there too. My SIL lives in the boonies. Maybe 10 cars pass her home all day. The problem is their property spans the road and they park across the street from the house. It's not very long before their cats venture over there to check things out. Her cats live a maximum of 2 years. W |
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