Are there any proven health risks associated with NOT neutering?

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response to "CatNipped" :

snip

I'm not offended in the least. I actually sat here nodding the
entire time, even when called an irrational n00b, and whatever else I
missed. ; )

Said with love from one irrational n00b to another! ; Seriously, I've
done some incredibly stupid things in my life and, at 56, I've found that I
do less of them not so much from lack of passion or wealth of knowledge as
from being too tired to waste the energy to screw up!


I may not know much but I count myself still in the ring since I'm
still swinging (willing to learn and adapt).

That's the *only* thing that counts - all else is just time and patience.


Well, now that I've written the equivalent of "War and Peace" (and
please let's all have peace on this day of thanksgiving), I'm off
to have my first cup of coffee (can you believe I was this
articulate without it??!).

I agree. Phil and CatNipped, I wish you the best on this day of
turkey's plight, belly's delight.

Have a happy holiday both of ya'.

Happy turkey day (at least here in the US) back atcha!

Hugs,

CatNipped


--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:59:58 -0800 (PST), James
wrote:


What percentage of intact cats get cancer? In female rabbits studies
over 80% develope some cancer of the reproductive system. In human
studies virgin nuns have higher incident of cancer. Having babies
reduces chance of cancer.


That doesn't actually disprove the theory of altering.

How many of those nuns received hysterectomies at a young age?

You mentioned rabbits and nuns having a high rate of cancer. Both
intact, correct?

You need to compare the rate of cancer in intact people, rabbits,
cats, etc vs altered examples of the same species.

Even within cats, they have found that cats altered before the first
heat have a lower rate of cancer than those altered later. And much
better than those never altered.

The real issue is the continuous cycle for no purpose. In other words,
cats being bred tend to have a lower rate of cancer than those left
intact but never being bred. But we don't want to produce a lot of
unwanted kittens, so we opt to later them, which gives the lowest rate
of health problems as an added bonus.

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:59:52 -0600, "CatNipped"
wrote:

"Phil P." wrote in message
news:KA81j.1220$ng.427@trnddc08...

Come on, Lori; seriously, do those scratches look anything like she
described? If the injuries were *half* as bad as she described they would
have required medical attention.

No, Phil, I don't - they are nasty scratches and bites and could get
infected without proper care, but having had a real biter for 17 years, I've
seen (and felt) much, much worse.

Are there more than 2 photos?

I saw one a while back with a child's face. And the one I see now is
an arm held up with lots of welts and a couple minor scratches. I
don't see anything resembling a bite.

Are we discussing that photo or is there another photo with real
bites?

I'm sorry, but the photo I see looks like 10 minutes of rough housing
with a typical cat. I can produce that with any of my cats.

I've had much worse injuries by accident.

When Maynard was a kitten, I picked up way too fast, and he tried to
grab at me to hold on. He slashed my ear pretty badly. I almost passed
out when I saw the separation. It healed nicely and the scar is barely
visible.

Maynard fell off my lap and caught a claw in my pinky finger, causing
his whole weight to be hanging off my finger.

Maynard wanted to wake me up, so I hid under the covers. He fished for
me with his paw and caught his claw in my lip (I never hid again).

Maynard was sitting in front of the alarm clock when it went off. I
knocked him off the desk by accident, and he scratched me on the way
down.

Maynard was sitting on my lap while I was on the toilet. He put his
front feet up on the toilet paper roll, slipped, and left traction
marks down my thigh.


You can see the pattern. Maynard caused some damage over the years.
But you know what, he was the sweetest cat, never agressive at all.
This is just part of having a cat, even a sweet one.

More recently, I have been knocked down teh stairs by an idiotic cat
who ran into me while I was trying to walk down the stairs. She threw
me off balance. I twisted my back, and even my foot, which was in a
shoe, hurt for awhile. She continued on like nothing happened.

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:15:16 -0600, "-Lost"
wrote:

Response to Meghan Noecker :



I think he must have gone into their territory, because he
disappeared when he was about 4 years old. We never found him.

(1) I think I'm confused. He backed down raccoons WITHOUT his doo-
dads? Or this was before he lost 'em, or... ?



We waited too long to get him neutered. He was one of the rare ones
that does not improve. It is only about 4% that do not improve, and
usually only when they are neutered really late. He did not stop
spraying, and he was very territorial, not just of space, but of
people. He would attack any cat, dog, or turtle that walked near my
mom.



I think his life would have been a lot different if we had just
neutered him. Unfortunately, at that time, my mom was a backyard
breeder and wanted to keep him intact. (She did quit after his
first litter.)

What is a backyard breeder? I'm guessing someone who is not an
official breeder? Or something like that?

Backyard breeders do not do the health testing that should be done.
Theywill typically breed any pair of cats, dogs, etc that look like
the breed they want. So, in my mom's case, she had a Siamese and she
responded to an ad for a Siamese male for stud. She did have papers on
her own cat or care about papers on the male cat. Papers don't make a
cat good enough to breed, but they do show the pedigree of that
animal, and the idea is to know the health, conformation, and
temperment of those who came before.

As a backyard breeder, she knew nothing of the history of cats
involved. No idea the temperment of the male. No idea of his health.
And no tests were done on either. Just because a cat looks healthy,
doesn't mean they don't have a heart condition or other problem. Many
problems don't show up in the first year. When breeding dogs, hips
cannot be certified until they are at least 2 years old.

There are also genetic tests for some common problems in various
breeds. For example, they have found the main cause of heart problems
in Maine Coons. Ethical breeders had their cats tested for the gene
and stopped breeding any cat with a double copy of that gene.
unfortunately, the gene is so common, they would narrow the gene pool
to much if they only breed negative cats. So, the goal right now is to
make sure that those cats with one copy of the gene are only bred to
negative cats. Then, the number of cats with the gene will go down,
and eventually, they can breed it out completely. But in the meantime,
they won't produce any cats with a double set. I know of several
breeders who altered all their cats and had to start over. They took
the financial loss and did the right thing. Backyard breeders don't
even bother with the tests. They save the money, and just breed to
sell.




I want him to be so much better than what he is but I hate that I
have to mutilate him to do it.


It's actually a very mild procedure, and most males are back to normal
the same day, as if nothing happened. None of mine ever had any
problems. Even my female removed her own stitches the next day and was
fine.

On 22 Nov, 15:59, "CatNipped" wrote:
"Phil P." wrote in message

news:KA81j.1220$ng.427@trnddc08...

Come on, Lori; seriously, do those scratches look anything like she
described? If the injuries were *half* as bad as she described they would
have required medical attention.

No, Phil, I don't - they are nasty scratches and bites and could get
infected without proper care, but having had a real biter for 17 years, I've
seen (and felt) much, much worse. My children have suffered much worse when
they did something one of my cats didn't like.

But that's not the point - it doesn't matter what you or I think about it,
or what you or I would do about it. We're not *there*, we can't control the
situation, we can only work *here* with "-Lost". If *she* thinks they're
bad enough to warrant surrendering Gabby, there's nothing we can do about
it. And, going back to what I said earlier, maternal instinct may seem
funny to some when it is over-reactive to a minor situation, but it's *real*
and it's on a level that doesn't involve rational thought (when a dog just
*threatened* one of my children I kicked him - HARD, and if I'd had a gun in
my hand at the time I would have shot him). And the younger the child is
the stronger that instinct in. I don't know her older daughter's age, but
"-Lost" also has a two-year-old daughter who was walking by when Gabby
jumped on her face, scratching her cheek.

Right now "-Lost" is feeling a bit out of control because all the things
we've been telling her over the last couple of months don't seem to be
working 100% and Gabby is still attacking (we really *have* been telling her
the same things you did - you've taught us well sensei! ;). As a mother I
can tell you some of the things that are going on in "-Lost's" head right
now (and note that I don't necessarily think they're logical, reasonable,
rational or even possible - just that they're there). She's thinking, what
if that claw had gone in my baby's eye instead of her cheek, she could have
lost her eye. What's going to happen when Gabby gets bigger and stronger
and can bite my baby's throat or tear pieces out of her face. *Those* are
the kinds of thoughts that, if we don't help her get Gabby under control,
will send Gabby to his death no matter what *WE* think of the situation.
And even though the scratches and bites may seem minor, they still *hurt*,
and seeing your 2-year-old crying in pain is almost unbearable. And she's
thinking, if it's this bad now, what's going to happen when he's larger and
stronger.

I don't know where she's from, but in my
state, doctors and hospitals are required by law to report all animal
bites
to the Board of Health- who would've quarantined the cat for at least 10
days. That's why I knew the injuries weren't nearly as bad as she
described- certainly not bad enough to warrant killing the cat.

Again, you and I don't think so, but you and I have *NO* say in the matter
is she decides to do just that. We can sit here and write nasty things to
and about her, but not knowing where she lives (as you stated above), we
can't even go over there and plead with her to let us take Gabby instead.
*That's* why I sometimes swallow my pride here and say something I might not
really believe in for myself or for my own situation (I'm trying to put
myself in the other's shoes and walk around for a bit). *That's* why I
don't care about always being right (though, as you can see in this thread,
to my disgrace, I don't always let it pass when I'm stung a bit). If saying
I'm wrong can save a cat's life, I'll be wrong till the cows come home. If
saying I know how they feel, lending a sympathetic "ear", and letting them
vent will help a cat then *that's* what I'll do. I try to understand how a
non-cat-person feels about things and how to get them to do the right things
for long enough for a cat to work his magic and "turn" another sucker into a
cat slave! ;



Btw, shelters are only required to give "stray/lost" animals 3-5-7-10 days
.
Animals surrendered by their owners can be killed immediately. There's no
waiting period.

You're right, I forgot about that. What do you guys do if the "owner" says
it's a cat he found wandering into his yard? Is the relinquisher believed
or is the cat immediately killed? But let's hope that is doesn't come to
that.

Anyway, it comes down to this. I'd like to help "-Lost" change Gabby's
behavior if at all possible. If we can't walk her though doing that and
"-Lost" gives up on him, my next concern is finding a home for Gabby so he
won't be taken to the pound. Because if "-Lost" *thinks* her children are
in harm's way, that maternal instinct that you find funny is going to be the
cause of Gabby's death.

Phil, I really do respect you and I don't know *anyone* - including my vet -
who has such a comprehensive knowledge of cats (I can't tell you how many
times I've surprised him with things I heard from you). I respect the
rescue work you do - keeping a feral colony alive and saving the lives of
hundreds of stray or abandoned cat who would have died horrible deaths. I
know how much, how *DEEPLY* you care about cats. I know that's why you get
so damned frustrated with stupid, careless "owners" that you want to beat
the crap out of them when they do something that puts a cat in harm's way.
And when you're there at the scene, if there is any way physically possible,
you will make sure every cat in your vicinity is safe and cared for.

But, pardon me and please don't take this as the first shot in a flame war,
but because of all that you are not always the most diplomatic person to
deal with on this newsgroup. Here, in some cases, your anger and
frustration *can't* help a cat, and if the person you are directing that
anger towards takes offense and leaves then you have lost any chance of
helping his/her cat.

I don't know a tenth of what you do about cats (and less than that when it
comes to their medical issues), but I think I do know people and how to work
with them and guide them to the desired outcome for both themselves and
their cat.

"-Lost" - I'm sorry for "talking behind your back" so to speak, and I hope
you didn't take offense at anything I wrote - I admit some statements may
have been exaggerated a bit to make a point. I was mainly using your
situation as an illustration of something that happens in this group all the
time. I've been on these groups from the time in (1996, 1997? anyone
remember?) when this was just one newsgroup, rec.pets.cats. People wanted
different things from it and argued incessantly so the group split into
rec.pets.cats.health-+behav and rec.pets.cats.anecdotes and
rec.pets.cat.community and rec.pets.cats.rescue and rec.pets.cats.announce
and rec.pets.cats.misc - that way we could go to a certain group for what we
needed without wading through hundreds of thousands of posts about things we
didn't care about (the "community" group was especially annoying because of
the "cat talk" - "baby talk" that was almost incomprehensible to most (I've
always declared that is cats could type they would me *much* more articulate
then we)). Anyway, we've seen thousands of posts about problems just like
yours just as we've seen thousands of posts with "help, my cat's leg is
dangling by a thread, what should I do?" The cumulative effect for us
who've been her for so long is to get jaded, frustrated, cynical and angry
on a deep, deep level (our love for cats, and the harm and injustice done to
them can tear your heart out after a while). That's why some "old-timers"
will snap at people, write nasty things, or just ignore some posts. I know
it's not the fault of the sincere, concerned "newbie" cat owner, so I try
not to (and often fail, as you have seen in this thread).

Well, now that I've written the equivalent of "War and Peace" (and please
let's all have peace on this day of thanksgiving), I'm off to have my first
cup of coffee (can you believe I was this articulate without it??!).

Hugs,

CatNipped

Hugs,

CatNipped





Phil- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are not many people in this group that would be prepared to say
they made an error of judgment, whether about the cat in question or
the poster involved. Personally, I think what you had to say made
perfect sense, & also helps Noob's to understand why they are being
flamed. Not everyone has been here as long as you have & your
explanation went a long way to explaining to others, why you / we get
some of us get so annoyed & we jump down some people's throat's for
what appears to be no reason at all.

I say I take my hat off to you for having the rare ability to admit
that you were either wrong, or you felt you had jumped to a
conclusion. We are all guilty of that occasionally, but admitting to
it takes a real woman. Well done for that post, & thank you for that
explanation too. It all makes perfect sense..
Sheelagh "o"

On 22 Nov, 19:21, "CatNipped" wrote:
"-Lost" wrote in message

...

Response to "CatNipped" :

snip

I'm not offended in the least. I actually sat here nodding the
entire time, even when called an irrational n00b, and whatever else I
missed. ; )

Said with love from one irrational n00b to another! ; Seriously, I've
done some incredibly stupid things in my life and, at 56, I've found that I
do less of them not so much from lack of passion or wealth of knowledge as
from being too tired to waste the energy to screw up!



I may not know much but I count myself still in the ring since I'm
still swinging (willing to learn and adapt).

That's the *only* thing that counts - all else is just time and patience.



Well, now that I've written the equivalent of "War and Peace" (and
please let's all have peace on this day of thanksgiving), I'm off
to have my first cup of coffee (can you believe I was this
articulate without it??!).

I agree. Phil and CatNipped, I wish you the best on this day of
turkey's plight, belly's delight.

Have a happy holiday both of ya'.

Happy turkey day (at least here in the US) back atcha!

Hugs,

CatNipped





--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

turkey's plight, belly's delight.

LOL,, over in the UK right now, we would be lucky to get turkey, even
for Christmas. We have had avian flu over here again (H15?!!)
In fact I would go so far as to say, I don't think most people would
want one right now because of the scare. We actually never have one.
We use chickens, or should I say a couple of chickens, because they
don't happen to be infected as far as we know right now. Either way, I
wish you all a happy holiday, on your side of the pond...
Sheelagh "o"

"Sheelagh"o"" wrote in message
...
On 22 Nov, 19:21, "CatNipped" wrote:
"-Lost" wrote in message

...

Response to "CatNipped" :

snip

I'm not offended in the least. I actually sat here nodding the
entire time, even when called an irrational n00b, and whatever else I
missed. ; )

Said with love from one irrational n00b to another! ; Seriously, I've
done some incredibly stupid things in my life and, at 56, I've found that
I
do less of them not so much from lack of passion or wealth of knowledge
as
from being too tired to waste the energy to screw up!



I may not know much but I count myself still in the ring since I'm
still swinging (willing to learn and adapt).

That's the *only* thing that counts - all else is just time and patience.



Well, now that I've written the equivalent of "War and Peace" (and
please let's all have peace on this day of thanksgiving), I'm off
to have my first cup of coffee (can you believe I was this
articulate without it??!).

I agree. Phil and CatNipped, I wish you the best on this day of
turkey's plight, belly's delight.

Have a happy holiday both of ya'.

Happy turkey day (at least here in the US) back atcha!

Hugs,

CatNipped





--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

turkey's plight, belly's delight.

LOL,, over in the UK right now, we would be lucky to get turkey, even
for Christmas. We have had avian flu over here again (H15?!!)
In fact I would go so far as to say, I don't think most people would
want one right now because of the scare. We actually never have one.
We use chickens, or should I say a couple of chickens, because they
don't happen to be infected as far as we know right now. Either way, I
wish you all a happy holiday, on your side of the pond...
Sheelagh "o"

Hadn't heard that! How many cases have there been? Were all the cases
involving only turkeys or has any person there come down with it?

Hugs,

CatNipped

On 24 Nov, 15:30, "CatNipped" wrote:
"Sheelagh"o"" wrote in message

...





On 22 Nov, 19:21, "CatNipped" wrote:
"-Lost" wrote in message

. ..

Response to "CatNipped" :

snip

I'm not offended in the least. I actually sat here nodding the
entire time, even when called an irrational n00b, and whatever else I
missed. ; )

Said with love from one irrational n00b to another! ; Seriously, I've
done some incredibly stupid things in my life and, at 56, I've found that
I
do less of them not so much from lack of passion or wealth of knowledge
as
from being too tired to waste the energy to screw up!

I may not know much but I count myself still in the ring since I'm
still swinging (willing to learn and adapt).

That's the *only* thing that counts - all else is just time and patience.

Well, now that I've written the equivalent of "War and Peace" (and
please let's all have peace on this day of thanksgiving), I'm off
to have my first cup of coffee (can you believe I was this
articulate without it??!).

I agree. Phil and CatNipped, I wish you the best on this day of
turkey's plight, belly's delight.

Have a happy holiday both of ya'.

Happy turkey day (at least here in the US) back atcha!

Hugs,

CatNipped

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

turkey's plight, belly's delight.

LOL,, over in the UK right now, we would be lucky to get turkey, even
for Christmas. We have had avian flu over here again (H15?!!)
In fact I would go so far as to say, I don't think most people would
want one right now because of the scare. We actually never have one.
We use chickens, or should I say a couple of chickens, because they
don't happen to be infected as far as we know right now. Either way, I
wish you all a happy holiday, on your side of the pond...
Sheelagh "o"

Hadn't heard that! How many cases have there been? Were all the cases
involving only turkeys or has any person there come down with it?

Hugs,

CatNipped- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my area. East of England, a place called Norfolk.

We have a brand of Turkeys over here called Bernard Matthews who went
down with it a few months ago,& now another farm has been found to
have HN15. there is was a total ban on bird movement for a ten mile
radius around it, but I heard today that they have destroyed all of
the birds on that farm & the farm next door too. We are expecting a
shortage of turkeys this Christmas.

Racing pigeons have been given leave to start racing again, & the ten
mile ban has just been lifted, but I have no doubts at all that
another one will pop up again soon. Every time we get a ban lifted,
within weeks, there is either another outbreak of HN15, or Pigs with
blue tongue disease, foot & mouth or another new variety of horrible
diseases. We don't seem to have had very much good luck @ all in the
last 12 months with wild fowl, turkey farms, & other meat source's
(cows & pigs mainly)
Plenty of juicy chickens though, so @ least the chicken farmers will
do well over Christmas. I think we tend to forget what effect it has
on the farmers themselves.
Sheelagh "o"

PS: Would anyone mind explaining what Thanksgiving is please?
I realise it has something to do with the name obiously. Is it like a
thanks giving after the annual harvest that we have over here?

"Sheelagh"o"" wrote in message
...
On 24 Nov, 15:30, "CatNipped" wrote:
"Sheelagh"o"" wrote in message

...





On 22 Nov, 19:21, "CatNipped" wrote:
"-Lost" wrote in message

. ..

Response to "CatNipped" :

snip

I'm not offended in the least. I actually sat here nodding the
entire time, even when called an irrational n00b, and whatever else
I
missed. ; )

Said with love from one irrational n00b to another! ; Seriously,
I've
done some incredibly stupid things in my life and, at 56, I've found
that
I
do less of them not so much from lack of passion or wealth of
knowledge
as
from being too tired to waste the energy to screw up!

I may not know much but I count myself still in the ring since I'm
still swinging (willing to learn and adapt).

That's the *only* thing that counts - all else is just time and
patience.

Well, now that I've written the equivalent of "War and Peace" (and
please let's all have peace on this day of thanksgiving), I'm off
to have my first cup of coffee (can you believe I was this
articulate without it??!).

I agree. Phil and CatNipped, I wish you the best on this day of
turkey's plight, belly's delight.

Have a happy holiday both of ya'.

Happy turkey day (at least here in the US) back atcha!

Hugs,

CatNipped

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

turkey's plight, belly's delight.

LOL,, over in the UK right now, we would be lucky to get turkey, even
for Christmas. We have had avian flu over here again (H15?!!)
In fact I would go so far as to say, I don't think most people would
want one right now because of the scare. We actually never have one.
We use chickens, or should I say a couple of chickens, because they
don't happen to be infected as far as we know right now. Either way, I
wish you all a happy holiday, on your side of the pond...
Sheelagh "o"

Hadn't heard that! How many cases have there been? Were all the cases
involving only turkeys or has any person there come down with it?

Hugs,

CatNipped- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my area. East of England, a place called Norfolk.

We have a brand of Turkeys over here called Bernard Matthews who went
down with it a few months ago,& now another farm has been found to
have HN15. there is was a total ban on bird movement for a ten mile
radius around it, but I heard today that they have destroyed all of
the birds on that farm & the farm next door too. We are expecting a
shortage of turkeys this Christmas.

Racing pigeons have been given leave to start racing again, & the ten
mile ban has just been lifted, but I have no doubts at all that
another one will pop up again soon. Every time we get a ban lifted,
within weeks, there is either another outbreak of HN15, or Pigs with
blue tongue disease, foot & mouth or another new variety of horrible
diseases. We don't seem to have had very much good luck @ all in the
last 12 months with wild fowl, turkey farms, & other meat source's
(cows & pigs mainly)
Plenty of juicy chickens though, so @ least the chicken farmers will
do well over Christmas. I think we tend to forget what effect it has
on the farmers themselves.

I thought goose was the traditional holiday bird in the UK, not turkey. But
I'm sorry to hear you are having so much trouble with HN15 breakouts - we
don't hear much about that in the US.

Sheelagh "o"

PS: Would anyone mind explaining what Thanksgiving is please?
I realise it has something to do with the name obiously. Is it like a
thanks giving after the annual harvest that we have over here?

It's celebrating the landing of the Pilgrims to the US at Plymouth Rock -
giving thanks for a safe crossing and successful colonizing. Actually,
there is a bit of a "PC" stink over here just now. Some schools are saying
it's insensitive for us to celebrate Thanksgiving because native Americans
see that as us giving thanks for having stolen their land, brought disease
to their people, and pretty much decimated their heritage.

Hugs,

CatNipped

On 24 Nov, 17:17, "CatNipped" wrote:
"Sheelagh"o"" wrote in message

...





On 24 Nov, 15:30, "CatNipped" wrote:
"Sheelagh"o"" wrote in message

...

On 22 Nov, 19:21, "CatNipped" wrote:
"-Lost" wrote in message

. ..

Response to "CatNipped" :

snip

I'm not offended in the least. I actually sat here nodding the
entire time, even when called an irrational n00b, and whatever else
I
missed. ; )

Said with love from one irrational n00b to another! ; Seriously,
I've
done some incredibly stupid things in my life and, at 56, I've found
that
I
do less of them not so much from lack of passion or wealth of
knowledge
as
from being too tired to waste the energy to screw up!

I may not know much but I count myself still in the ring since I'm
still swinging (willing to learn and adapt).

That's the *only* thing that counts - all else is just time and
patience.

Well, now that I've written the equivalent of "War and Peace" (and
please let's all have peace on this day of thanksgiving), I'm off
to have my first cup of coffee (can you believe I was this
articulate without it??!).

I agree. Phil and CatNipped, I wish you the best on this day of
turkey's plight, belly's delight.

Have a happy holiday both of ya'.

Happy turkey day (at least here in the US) back atcha!

Hugs,

CatNipped

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-Lost
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turkey's plight, belly's delight.

LOL,, over in the UK right now, we would be lucky to get turkey, even
for Christmas. We have had avian flu over here again (H15?!!)
In fact I would go so far as to say, I don't think most people would
want one right now because of the scare. We actually never have one.
We use chickens, or should I say a couple of chickens, because they
don't happen to be infected as far as we know right now. Either way, I
wish you all a happy holiday, on your side of the pond...
Sheelagh "o"

Hadn't heard that! How many cases have there been? Were all the cases
involving only turkeys or has any person there come down with it?

Hugs,

CatNipped- Hide quoted text -

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In my area. East of England, a place called Norfolk.

We have a brand of Turkeys over here called Bernard Matthews who went
down with it a few months ago,& now another farm has been found to
have HN15. there is was a total ban on bird movement for a ten mile
radius around it, but I heard today that they have destroyed all of
the birds on that farm & the farm next door too. We are expecting a
shortage of turkeys this Christmas.

Racing pigeons have been given leave to start racing again, & the ten
mile ban has just been lifted, but I have no doubts at all that
another one will pop up again soon. Every time we get a ban lifted,
within weeks, there is either another outbreak of HN15, or Pigs with
blue tongue disease, foot & mouth or another new variety of horrible
diseases. We don't seem to have had very much good luck @ all in the
last 12 months with wild fowl, turkey farms, & other meat source's
(cows & pigs mainly)
Plenty of juicy chickens though, so @ least the chicken farmers will
do well over Christmas. I think we tend to forget what effect it has
on the farmers themselves.

I thought goose was the traditional holiday bird in the UK, not turkey. But
I'm sorry to hear you are having so much trouble with HN15 breakouts - we
don't hear much about that in the US.

Sheelagh "o"

PS: Would anyone mind explaining what Thanksgiving is please?
I realise it has something to do with the name obiously. Is it like a
thanks giving after the annual harvest that we have over here?

It's celebrating the landing of the Pilgrims to the US at Plymouth Rock -
giving thanks for a safe crossing and successful colonizing. Actually,
there is a bit of a "PC" stink over here just now. Some schools are saying
it's insensitive for us to celebrate Thanksgiving because native Americans
see that as us giving thanks for having stolen their land, brought disease
to their people, and pretty much decimated their heritage.

Hugs,

CatNipped- Hide quoted text -

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I thought goose was the traditional holiday bird in the UK, not turkey. But
I'm sorry to hear you are having so much trouble with HN15 breakouts - we
don't hear much about that in the US.


It might have been in our parents generation, but these days with all
the Obesity warnings & better health care, we don't really use them
any more because Goose is a very fatty meat, so most people choose
Turkey, but personally, I find it quite a dry meat, so we choose to
eat chicken. I don't suppose there is a great deal of difference
between them, other than the weight of them!!

It's celebrating the landing of the Pilgrims to the US at Plymouth Rock -
giving thanks for a safe crossing and successful colonizing. Actually,
there is a bit of a "PC" stink over here just now. Some schools are saying
it's insensitive for us to celebrate Thanksgiving because native Americans
see that as us giving thanks for having stolen their land, brought disease
to their people, and pretty much decimated their heritage

Yet another controversial subject I see!
It's difficult because I can see both points of view, I'm just glad
I'm not in the middle of that one, & thanks for the explanation too
BTW.
Sheelagh "o"