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Crane, Gaubster, PhilP
"Ann Martin" wrote in message
My question is, what are you all so frightened of that you have taken such a defensive stand? You all seemed concerned that I am making all kinds of money from my books and television radio shows. You insinuate that all information in my books are nothing more then scare tactics. Let's look at the pet food industry, an industry that makes billions per year. What is this industry doing? Lying to the pet owner's, brain washing them into believing that feeding commercial pet foods, garbage, is the only way they can have a healthy pet. In the meantime these people, the pet owner's, are incurring thousands of dollars in vet bills from feeding this garbage. Ads depict steaks, whole grains, quality vegetables and fats going into these products when in reality what is going into these pet foods is garbage that would otherwise end up in landfill or be incinerated. All these people have stated that this industry is regulated. Where is the proof? Show me one document that gives any indication that ingredients in pet foods are regulated. One idiot stated that the USDA/FSIS regulated the ingredients used in pet foods. WRONG! they have no input at all. The FDA/CVM oversees any drugs that are used in pet foods and the labeling text. NOTHING ELSE. The AAFCO sets guidelines and it is up to each state to adopt these guidlines. Very few states actually do and if they do this group, comprised of many from the pet food industry, has no input at all into the ingredients used. If you follow the AAFCO guidlelines, as I have pointed out in a previous post, the foods can contain such things as "hydrolyzed hair," dehydrated garbage," "dehydrated food waste," "dried ruminant waste," "dried swine waste," "undried processed animal waste products,". NOW WOULD YOU PLEASE PROVIDE SOME DOCUMENTATION AS TO WHO REGULATES THE INGREDIENTS THAT ARE IN COMMERCIAL FOOD. THE PET FOOD COMPANIES, THAT'S WHO REGULATES THIS INDUSTRY. You ramble on about the nutrient value of the ingredients in pet foods but you neglect to mention what these ingredients actually are. You can derive nutrients from nearly anything including garbage. To that garbage add a substantial amount of vitamins, minerals and you want us to believe that you will be feeding your pet a "complete and balanced diet." You have persisted in asking for documentation as to the information I have posted. I've provided that including the e-mail from the USDA/FSIS stating they have no input at all into the ingredients in pet food. I've quote from letter received from the FDA/CVM as to their knowledge that pets ARE used in commercial pet foods and from David Dzanis, DVM, formerly with the FDA/CVM who stated that the AAFCO ingredient definitions applied to both livestock feed and PET FOOD. Crane wrote that he had spoken to Halo, the company that makes 'Spots Stew. "I spent nearly an hour on the phone with this lady and found out she had never had the food analyzed and could not even begin to give me an answer about the calcium and phosphorus levels in the food. She kept insisting that since it was all "human grade" the levels of these minerals didn't matter." Well he must have spoken to the cleaning lady because Andi Brown, the owner of the company was out of town last week. If this is the conversation he had with the cleaning woman then she lied because Andi Brown replied that they continually have their food analyzed and are always in compliance. I suggest that you get your story straight the next time you post such inaccurate information. These three also continue to insist that the pentobarbital in pet food poses no danger. I've questioned them a number of times that if this was the case why was the investigation begun in the first place? It was because dogs were building up a resistance to this drug and it was taking more to euthanize the. If this drug ws having no effect then there should have been no change in the amounts it took to euthanize. Also, the FDA/CVM did not consider the interaction of this drug with other drugs. They did not consider the interaction with other chemicals found in pet food. They measured ONE liver enzyme then sought to find the minimal daily dose that did not elevate this enzyme. The conclusion arrived at was this drug was "probably" safe. Probably does not mean it is safe. As I have also mentioned, the FDA/CVM has admitted that if this drug, in any amount, was found in human food it would be pulled from the shelves immediately. Not so with pet foods. When anyone questions any of you and you are backed into a corner your resort to derogatory remarks and name calling, you never answer the questions that are addressed to you. As I've said before, I don't have the time to spend with people like you and won't bother wasting anymore time with your posts. Others on the list know that I am more then happy to provide any documented information they require. Ann |
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message om... "Ann Martin" wrote in message I thought you weren't going to waste your time replying to me? LOL! Now comes the poor innocent, little victimized, altruist routine! LOL! My question is, what are you all so frightened of that you have taken such a defensive stand? ....of you starting and perpetuating rumors and scare tactics to scare people into a feeding plan that isn't necessary and they may not be prepared to follow -- all based largely on innuendo, conjecture and manipulated facts - as demonstrated to your reference to taurine-deficient diets which was corrected nearly 20 years ago.... How's that, for starters? You all seemed concerned that I am making all kinds of money from my books and television radio shows. You insinuate that all information in my books are nothing more then scare tactics. They *are* - Are your books free? Do you appear on radio shoes for free, too or to promote your books - i.e., free advertising? . Let's look at the pet food industry, an industry that makes billions per year. So does, GM, Ford and about a 1000 other companies.... What is this industry doing? Lying to the pet owner's, brain washing them into believing that feeding commercial pet foods, garbage, is the only way they can have a healthy pet. Obviously they;re not lying.... since cats are living longer today than they've ever lived before.... Because cats are living longer, didn't it ever occur to you that most of the diseases occur secondary to aging...? Or doesn't that fit with your agenda....? In the meantime these people, the pet owner's, are incurring thousands of dollars in vet bills from feeding this garbage. Bullsh!t. I can singlehandedly debunk your bullsh!t because my cats have been eating commercial food for 18 years and have never been sick a day in their lives... other than a case of worms they got in the shelter when they were kittens...My other cats lived to 22, 19, and 20 years- on commercial food. So much for your bullsh!t, eh Annie...? Fodder snipped just for the hell of it You ramble on about the nutrient value of the ingredients in pet foods Obviously a subject you know nothing about.... but you neglect to mention what these ingredients actually are. The ingredients are defined in the AAFCO Ingredients Definitions, You can derive nutrients from nearly anything including garbage. To that garbage add a substantial amount of vitamins, minerals and you want us to believe that you will be feeding your pet a "complete and balanced diet." That's what feeding trial are for, Einstein! That's how the digestibility, and bioavailabilty of the nutrients are determined! Does "gross energy", "digestible energy" and "metabolizable energy" ring any bells...Einstein? .. or didn't you even get that far in Nutrition 101! LOL! You have persisted in asking for documentation as to the information I have posted. I've provided that including the e-mail from the USDA/FSIS stating they have no input at all into the ingredients in pet food. I would have liked to see your original inquiry.... You can ask a question in such a way to get almost the exact, if not the exact answer you want... Hey, be realistic, you're not exactly unbaised and you do have an agenda... I've quote from letter received from the FDA/CVM as to their knowledge that pets ARE used in commercial pet foods and from David Dzanis, DVM, formerly with the FDA/CVM Formerly? He wouldn't be a disgruntled former employee would he? Hey, I can play the innuendo and conjecture game too! How do you like it? LOL! who stated that the AAFCO ingredient definitions applied to both livestock feed and PET FOOD. Nice manipulation! You're pretty good - but not good enough.... Because an ingredient has the same description, that doesn't mean that ingredient can be used in either food! "9. ANIMAL PRODUCTS . Official *Use of this ingredient, from mammalian origins, is restricted to non-ruminant feeds unless specifically exempted by 21 CFR 589.2000." All the ingredients only allowed in cat food bear the "*". The same ingredient can have different energy and nutritional values for different animals.... I'll make this real simple so I know you'll understand: For example, Einstein, grass has different energy and nutrient values for a cow that it does for a cat. And even though a horse is a nonruminant, the energy and nutrient values are different than for a cat or a cow because of the lenght of the horses digestive system.... I guess you slept through that class of Nutrition 101! LOL! Crane wrote that he had spoken to Halo, the company that makes 'Spots Stew. "I spent nearly an hour on the phone with this lady and found out she had never had the food analyzed and could not even begin to give me an answer about the calcium and phosphorus levels in the food. She kept insisting that since it was all "human grade" the levels of these minerals didn't matter." Well he must have spoken to the cleaning lady because Andi Brown, the owner of the company was out of town last week. If this is the conversation he had with the cleaning woman then she lied because Andi Brown replied that they continually have their food analyzed and are always in compliance. I suggest that you get your story straight the next time you post such inaccurate information. ROTFLMAO! You just made a liar out of YOURSELF! (Not hard to do). What happened to the "garbage"??? These three also continue to insist that the pentobarbital in pet food poses no danger. I've questioned them a number of times that if this was the case why was the investigation begun in the first place? It was because dogs were building up a resistance to this drug and it was taking more to euthanize the. If this drug ws having no effect then there should have been no change in the amounts it took to euthanize. Also, the FDA/CVM did not consider the interaction of this drug with other drugs. They did not consider the interaction with other chemicals found in pet food. They measured ONE liver enzyme then sought to find the minimal daily dose that did not elevate this enzyme. The conclusion arrived at was this drug was "probably" safe. Probably does not mean it is safe. So you perpetuated a rumour and scare tactic based on nothing more than innuendo and conjecture - even though *your own source* didn;t even imply there was a danger! You created a rumour and scare tactic -- no way out of that! You just admitted it youself! LOL! There is no proof, even according to you, that pentobarbital poses any danger at the levels found. About 90% of all food ingredients are GRAS! "Gernerally regarded as safe" As far as I'm concerned, even based partly on your *own* admission, YOU'RE FULL OF **** and nothing but a scamming, manipulator - if not an actual liar Anyone who believes your book, I know where they can get "waterfront" property in Fla (not far from the Everglades) and Rolex watches real cheap! LOL! more bullsh!t snipped |
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NOW
WOULD YOU PLEASE PROVIDE SOME DOCUMENTATION AS TO WHO REGULATES THE INGREDIENTS THAT ARE IN COMMERCIAL FOOD http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petfoodflier.html "The Act does require that pet foods, like human foods, be pure and wholesome, contain no harmful or deleterious substances, and be truthfully labeled." That's about it. Also, if this is the IBD group Petco now sells Bene-bac, probiotics in tubes. I used some on my squirrels and cat after giving them antibiotics and it worked great. Maybe the IBD cats could use some. I think if you have the knowledge of nutrition, desire and money, a homemade food would be preferable as it won't have additives, colorings, flavorings, preservatives... My IBD cat couldn't eat store bought food. I had to make it for him. I used the same ingredients in the can food, chicken and rice with vitamin/mineral powder, but it didn't make him sick so it must have been everything else in there. |
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From: (Ann Martin)
The pet food industry states that home prepared diets are not complete and balanced and that we are basically killing our pets if we don't feed commercial pet foods. I know hundreds of pets that are now eating a homemade diet and doing extremely well including my three cats and dog. My cats are also on a homemade diet and thriving on it. I am on a list of over 950 people who feed homemade diets, and these animals are doing great on them. I don't think all commercial pet food is bad, but I do think a person really can never know what's in it. I personally like the feeling that I know exactly what goes into my pets' food. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#6
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From: (Ann Martin)
The pet food industry states that home prepared diets are not complete and balanced and that we are basically killing our pets if we don't feed commercial pet foods. I know hundreds of pets that are now eating a homemade diet and doing extremely well including my three cats and dog. My cats are also on a homemade diet and thriving on it. I am on a list of over 950 people who feed homemade diets, and these animals are doing great on them. I don't think all commercial pet food is bad, but I do think a person really can never know what's in it. I personally like the feeling that I know exactly what goes into my pets' food. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#7
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message om... Someone also stated that the AAFCO, classifed livestock and pet food in different catagories. Dr. David Dzanis, formerly a veterinary medical officer with the CVM, made it clear in a letter that ALL AAFCO 'ingredient definitions' applied to both livestock and pet food. Did you misrepresent others' statements in your book to suit your agenda, also? What I actually said was: "Because an ingredient has the same description, that doesn't mean that ingredient can be used in either food!" Followed by the AAFCO regulation: "9. ANIMAL PRODUCTS . Official *Use of this ingredient, from mammalian origins, is restricted to non-ruminant feeds unless specifically exempted by 21 CFR 589.2000." IOW, Martin the Manipulator, some of the ingredients used in food for ruminants cannot be used in cat food. Cats are non-ruminant animals - I doubt you knew that... I said nothing about different definitions for the same ingredients used in feed for livestock and food for cats. *You* conjured up that misrepresentation all by yourself...I wonder how many misrepresentations you conjured up in your book for effect..... I wouldn't believe your so-called documentation unless it was notarized and witnessed by a priest... and a rabbi... and a minister... and a monk... All your hyperbole and sensationalism can't change the fact that cats are living longer today than they've ever lived before - and the overwhelmingly vast majority eat *commercial cat food* their entire lives... which is usually into their late teens and even early twenties. As I said before, if 1/10 of the "danger" you sensationalize to sell books was *real* or *true*, the vast majority of cats that eat commercial cat food would be dropping like flies at young ages instead of living longer... into their late teens and even into their early twenties. *Reality* debunks your scaremongering... you should try opening your eyes to it... But then you wouldn't sell many books, now would you? |
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message om... Someone also stated that the AAFCO, classifed livestock and pet food in different catagories. Dr. David Dzanis, formerly a veterinary medical officer with the CVM, made it clear in a letter that ALL AAFCO 'ingredient definitions' applied to both livestock and pet food. Did you misrepresent others' statements in your book to suit your agenda, also? What I actually said was: "Because an ingredient has the same description, that doesn't mean that ingredient can be used in either food!" Followed by the AAFCO regulation: "9. ANIMAL PRODUCTS . Official *Use of this ingredient, from mammalian origins, is restricted to non-ruminant feeds unless specifically exempted by 21 CFR 589.2000." IOW, Martin the Manipulator, some of the ingredients used in food for ruminants cannot be used in cat food. Cats are non-ruminant animals - I doubt you knew that... I said nothing about different definitions for the same ingredients used in feed for livestock and food for cats. *You* conjured up that misrepresentation all by yourself...I wonder how many misrepresentations you conjured up in your book for effect..... I wouldn't believe your so-called documentation unless it was notarized and witnessed by a priest... and a rabbi... and a minister... and a monk... All your hyperbole and sensationalism can't change the fact that cats are living longer today than they've ever lived before - and the overwhelmingly vast majority eat *commercial cat food* their entire lives... which is usually into their late teens and even early twenties. As I said before, if 1/10 of the "danger" you sensationalize to sell books was *real* or *true*, the vast majority of cats that eat commercial cat food would be dropping like flies at young ages instead of living longer... into their late teens and even into their early twenties. *Reality* debunks your scaremongering... you should try opening your eyes to it... But then you wouldn't sell many books, now would you? |
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From: pam (Mary)
NOW WOULD YOU PLEASE PROVIDE SOME DOCUMENTATION AS TO WHO REGULATES THE INGREDIENTS THAT ARE IN COMMERCIAL FOOD http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petfoodflier.html "The Act does require that pet foods, like human foods, be pure and wholesome, contain no harmful or deleterious substances, and be truthfully labeled." That's about it. Yeah, that's about it. But I see nothing about pet food be regulated at all. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
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olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From: pam (Mary) NOW WOULD YOU PLEASE PROVIDE SOME DOCUMENTATION AS TO WHO REGULATES THE INGREDIENTS THAT ARE IN COMMERCIAL FOOD http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petfoodflier.html "The Act does require that pet foods, like human foods, be pure and wholesome, contain no harmful or deleterious substances, and be truthfully labeled." That's about it. Yeah, that's about it. But I see nothing about pet food be regulated at all. You're right, no one regulates the ingredients in these foods. Contact the FDA/CVM and ask them outright if they, or any agencey, inspects or tests the raw materials used in commercial pet foods. One person in this news group stated that the USDA/FSIS regulated pet food. In an e-mail I received from this department they made it very clear ""NO" FSIS does not inspects or oversees any ingredients used in commercial pet food." I believe this same person stated that it was illegal to use euthanized dogs and cats in commercial pet foods. Again I quoted from a letter I received from Christine Richmond of the FDA/CVM who wrote "CVM has not acted to specifically prohibit the rendering of pets. However, that is not to say that the practice of using this material in pet food is condoned by the CVM." First of all, it is not illegal. Second, the FDA/CVM is aware that this is happening but will take no step to prohibit this practice. I also have letters from a number of people associated with the AAFCO, various states across the U.S.. I asked all of them if any testing is undertaken on any of the raw materials used in commercial pet foods. The reply from all was "NO." I have asked the people who over and over again tell us this industry is regulated to provide some proof of this and not one of them has been able to do this. They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus, nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage, and then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease etc. in pets then basically what we are feeding them. Why on earth do they think the pets are suffering from so many ills. Could it be from the garbage we are feeding them? Sorry that this has been a rather lengthy reply to your statement, Lauren but I think people should find out for themselves how regulated this industry actually is. Ann Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
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