[OT] Seek opinions about a disagreement

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions. A lot to think about
here. First, an update: we talked it out later that evening (after I posted
here), and Joy, MaryL, you were both right that she feels slighted when I
ask a question about something that she's just told me about. So I explained
in more detail about how difficult it can be sometimes to keep my mind on
something, whether it's conversation, reading, watching a movie, listening
to a lecture, etc, and it's not personal. The thing is, when she feels
slighted, that's when she'll snap at me and say "I just told you!", which
I hear as admonishment for being ditzy, rather than as hurt feelings. So
there's a feedback loop.

Several of you suggested that I might simply be bored by this friend. But
I'm pretty sure that's not what's going on. For one thing, this friend is
one of the most interesting people I know - she's smart, thoughtful,
animated, and tells great stories. We have a lot of common interests, and
I usually find her conversation pretty engaging.

But I have been thinking about what kinds of things I tend to fuzz out
on, and it seems to be certain kinds of details. The last time this
happened with her, she was giving me specific information about... oops,
can't remember, but let's just say it was the date, time and place of
a certain event. Or maybe it was the setup of a story - you know, how
sometimes you have to give some backstory details so that the rest of
the tale will make sense? I often tune out on that. And you know what?
I notice that other people do, too.

Let's say I'm telling a story about someone, and first I have to explain
who this person is. Then I start the story. At some point, the other
person (including the friend I've been talking about) will say, "Wait a
minute - who is this again?" Once the story got interesting, they tuned
in, but the inital setup didn't grab them, so they either didn't listen,
or didn't retain it. Maybe this happens with me more often than with others,
but it doesn't seem uncommon.

Anyway, it occurred to me that I could start keeping track of when this
happens. I could write down what someone was telling me (or what I was
reading, watching, etc) when my mind wandered. Then I'll have some idea
of which things are hardest to focus on.

I already know that the more difficult the material is, the harder it is
for me to focus, whereas I can get pretty engaged in something easy right
away. Most of the people I know say the opposite - that if something's
really easy, they read/watch/listen with half a brain, while the other
half is distracted, but if it's difficult, then they engage it with their
whole brain. What about people here? I'm curious.

--
Joyce

Hi, this is the Sylvia stress reduction hotline. At the sound of
the beep, repeat after me: "This week, let someone else strive for
excellence." -- Nicole Hollander

"Bastette" wrote in message
...

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions. A lot to think about
here. First, an update: we talked it out later that evening (after I posted
here), and Joy, MaryL, you were both right that she feels slighted when I
ask a question about something that she's just told me about. So I explained
in more detail about how difficult it can be sometimes to keep my mind on
something, whether it's conversation, reading, watching a movie, listening
to a lecture, etc, and it's not personal. The thing is, when she feels
slighted, that's when she'll snap at me and say "I just told you!", which
I hear as admonishment for being ditzy, rather than as hurt feelings. So
there's a feedback loop.

Several of you suggested that I might simply be bored by this friend. But
I'm pretty sure that's not what's going on. For one thing, this friend is
one of the most interesting people I know - she's smart, thoughtful,
animated, and tells great stories. We have a lot of common interests, and
I usually find her conversation pretty engaging.

But I have been thinking about what kinds of things I tend to fuzz out
on, and it seems to be certain kinds of details. The last time this
happened with her, she was giving me specific information about... oops,
can't remember, but let's just say it was the date, time and place of
a certain event. Or maybe it was the setup of a story - you know, how
sometimes you have to give some backstory details so that the rest of
the tale will make sense? I often tune out on that. And you know what?
I notice that other people do, too.

Let's say I'm telling a story about someone, and first I have to explain
who this person is. Then I start the story. At some point, the other
person (including the friend I've been talking about) will say, "Wait a
minute - who is this again?" Once the story got interesting, they tuned
in, but the inital setup didn't grab them, so they either didn't listen,
or didn't retain it. Maybe this happens with me more often than with others,
but it doesn't seem uncommon.

Anyway, it occurred to me that I could start keeping track of when this
happens. I could write down what someone was telling me (or what I was
reading, watching, etc) when my mind wandered. Then I'll have some idea
of which things are hardest to focus on.

I already know that the more difficult the material is, the harder it is
for me to focus, whereas I can get pretty engaged in something easy right
away. Most of the people I know say the opposite - that if something's
really easy, they read/watch/listen with half a brain, while the other
half is distracted, but if it's difficult, then they engage it with their
whole brain. What about people here? I'm curious.

--
Joyce



I think a lot of people have difficulty in focusing, and you have provided a
good explanation here. You are not talking about the problem that happens
to many elderly people, but I think there is a similarity. When my father
got older, he would often ask people to repeat. In his case, that was
linked to problems with his hearing.

On a related matter: I have been fortunate in that I seem to automatically
"focus" any time I am reading. As a result, I could always study (or read
for pleasure) even if the TV was blaring and people were talking. My
parents even took a flash picture of me when I was six or seven years old.
I was only reading the comics, but I did not even know the flash went off.
Of course--and getting back to what you were talking about--that same
ability to focus meant that someone often had to call my name two or three
times before I would lose my absorption in the book and pay attention to
what was being said to me.

MaryL

MaryL wrote:

I have been fortunate in that I seem to automatically
"focus" any time I am reading. As a result, I could always study (or read
for pleasure) even if the TV was blaring and people were talking. My
parents even took a flash picture of me when I was six or seven years old.
I was only reading the comics, but I did not even know the flash went off.
Of course--and getting back to what you were talking about--that same
ability to focus meant that someone often had to call my name two or three
times before I would lose my absorption in the book and pay attention to
what was being said to me.

I used to be more like that about books. Back before I had a TV and there
was no Internet, I did a lot more reading. And if it was a great book,
I'd get extremely absorbed in it, the same way you describe. People would
have to yell to get my attention.

I couldn't do homework with noise around, though, unless it was something
that came easily to me, like math. If I had to read a chapter from the
history book (history was my worst subject), I had to go off by myself to
the quietest place in the house.

This focusing thing has sometimes caused me big problems at jobs. At some
point I discovered that listening to music could sometimes be helpful. It
serves as an anchor when I can't sit still and keep getting up every 5
minutes to go get water, go pee out the water, go look out the window,
make a phone call, etc. Once upon a time, cigarettes or food played that
role (of helping to keep me in my seat), so I'd say music is a big step up!

--
Joyce

I will not sniff at my male human's feet after he takes his shoes off,
freeze my mouth open in disgust and then sniff my private parts to compare
odors. -- Cat Resolutions

"Bastette" wrote in message
...
Hey, I hope some of you guys might be willing to read this and give
me your opinions. A friend and I are having some words because she
sometimes does this behavior around me that I find hurtful. I've
asked her to stop, and she just refuses. Here's the situation:

I've always had some difficulty focusing on things, such as when
someone is talking, or at a group gathering, watching a movie, etc.
The more emotionally involved I am in what's being said, the easier
it is for me to focus. So if someone's talking to me about a
critical problem and needs support, I'm pretty attentive and
present. But my mind tends to wander sometimes during more casual
conversation. If my mind is wandering during a movie, it's usually
at the very beginning, before I care about the story or the characters.
Once I'm hooked, my mind is much more engaged.

This is not something I know how control. My mind wanders without
my realizing it's wandering. Even when I make a concerted effort
to stay attentive, I will suddenly catch myself thinking about
something else. This used to happen a lot at work meetings. I
know that's not unusual! But it also happens with friends, especially
in groups.

I've gotten crap about this my whole life. Teachers were always
chiding me for "dreaming", which I admit, I did a lot of. For most
of my adult life I didn't have a huge problem with it, but lately,
probably due to Menopausal Brain Fog [TM], it's a little worse. I
also have a much worse memory, and I forget a lot of recent details.
I've forgotten entire conversations. At some point I realized that
these memories weren't actually *gone*, but were just harder to
retrieve, and with the right prompts, I can get it all back.

This friend had a hard time with my memory thing. She got upset and
angry when I forgot things she'd told me. I can understand feeling
that way if there's no good reason for it, but I kept trying to
explain that it was happening in all aspects of my life and I couldn't
control it. She had this attitude that I should "do something about
it" (like what?), and got pretty judgemental of me for not developing
memory strategies. (Was I supposed to take notes of all our
conversations?)
Once I realized I could remember most things if I just asked for a
refresher, it got a little better between us, but I'm still sensitive
about it due to the history of feeling blamed and judged.

Nowadays, if my mind wanders during a conversation (and I don't
catch myself at it so I can say, "sorry, my mind wandered, can you
repeat that?"), I will sometimes ask a question or make a comment
that shows I hadn't heard what she'd just said. And she always
says in a very pointed way, "I JUST TOLD you that!" It feels like
I'm being admonished. It just feels insensitive.

I do understand that it can be aggravating to have to repeat
yourself to someone frequently. Another friend of mine lives with
a hearing impaired guy and she is constantly having to repeat what
she says. I know I'd find that aggravating if I were in her shoes,
even knowing that it's not his fault.

Anyway, yesterday, I asked my friend to please stop making a big deal
out of the fact that she JUST TOLD me about it, because she knows
it's not my fault, and I try to be upfront if I notice I haven't
been listening for a few minutes. I understand that it can be
annoying for her, but I don't think she should take it out on me.
Call someone else and complain to them. Or find some other way to
express her stress to me, in a way that's clear she knows I can't
help it. The way she does it sounds like she doesn't really *believe*
I can't do anything about it - that she's not just annoyed with
the situation, she's annoyed with *me*.

So we're at an impasse - I feel like she should cut me more slack,
and she feels like she needs the "escape valve" of letting off steam
and showing me her annoyance, and has refused to change her responses.
That feels like she doesn't care about my feelings. How hard can it
be to act like she's frustrated by having to repeat things, but not
mad at me?

Any opinions? Who wants to play Ann Landers? (A syndicated advice
columnist.)

Thanks!


This is a difficult one. If she is a true friend, she ought to believe what
you say, that you have always had difficulty with focussing and having your
mind wander. OTOH, it can be annoying (I suppose) for her if she thinks you
are just not interested in what she is saying.
The few friends I have left (who haven't died ;-() accept me for what I am
but that comes from really long-time friendships.
If she isn't a really long time friend and cannot accept you warts and all,
I'd probably let the "friendship" lapse.
Tweed

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
On 2012-03-05 12:15 PM, MaryL wrote:


"---MIKE---" wrote in message
...

I frequently doze off while watching TV or on the internet. I don't
usually get sleepy while driving but if I do, I pull over, tilt the seat
back and take a short nap. When I wake up I am fine. When I am dozing
while the TV is on, Tiger often gets on the arm of the seat and touches
my face with his paw to let me know he wants to get on my lap.

---MIKE---


I have also pulled over for a short rest if I get sleepy while driving.
However, the difference for my father is that he suddenly nodded off,
then was brought back to wakefulness when his head fell forward. He did
not have "tiredness" or "sleepiness" as a forewarning; he just suddenly
fell asleep. That's when he decided that he should never drive again. He
frequently dozed off in his chair at home, but that was the first and
only time that it happened while he was driving.

MaryL


I've had a relative and an elderly friend or two who were a terror to
their passengers sometimes, with their slowed reaction time, even without
sleepiness. Others seem to mainain their skills until well into old age.

It's hard for people who have always driven to give it up, though,
particularly if they live alone or with a non-driver and in an area in
which a car is needed just to get to the store to buy a carton of milk.
Your father was wise to recognize when he needed to stop.

--
Cheryl

Yes, it is difficult. I hope I'll know when that time comes. As it is, I
no longer drive at night, unless it is very close to home, on a fairly major
street, and I know exactly where I'm going. That pretty much means that my
night driving is restricted to Toastmasters meetings and events at church.
When my kids and I get together, they either come here, or my son picks me
up and brings me home.

My late mother-in-law didn't recognize when she should stop driving. My
late husband solved that by borrowing her car and not returning it. We did
have a temporary need for it. Later we sold it and gave her the money. At
my husband's memorial service, I overheard her telling somebody about his
taking her car away. I guess she never forgave him for it.

Joy

Christina Websell wrote:

This is a difficult one. If she is a true friend, she ought to believe what
you say, that you have always had difficulty with focussing and having your
mind wander. OTOH, it can be annoying (I suppose) for her if she thinks you
are just not interested in what she is saying.

I'd say it's more the latter, now that we've cleared the air about it. I
was hearing her response as a reprimand, just because I've gotten so much
of that in my life. But it's really more about feeling like I didn't care
what she was saying. For that matter, maybe most of the people who admonished
me when I was young felt the same way - although you'd think adults might
be more interested in why a child spends so much of her time withdrawn into
her own world, than in nursing their hurt feelings.

The few friends I have left (who haven't died ;-() accept me for what I am
but that comes from really long-time friendships.
If she isn't a really long time friend and cannot accept you warts and all,
I'd probably let the "friendship" lapse.

We've known each other for about 20 years, and been pretty close for the
past 12 years or so.





--
Joyce

There is no alternative to being yourself.

"Bastette" wrote in message
...
MaryL wrote:

I have been fortunate in that I seem to automatically
"focus" any time I am reading. As a result, I could always study (or
read
for pleasure) even if the TV was blaring and people were talking. My
parents even took a flash picture of me when I was six or seven years
old.
I was only reading the comics, but I did not even know the flash went
off.
Of course--and getting back to what you were talking about--that same
ability to focus meant that someone often had to call my name two or
three
times before I would lose my absorption in the book and pay attention to
what was being said to me.

I used to be more like that about books. Back before I had a TV and there
was no Internet, I did a lot more reading. And if it was a great book,
I'd get extremely absorbed in it, the same way you describe. People would
have to yell to get my attention.

I'm exactly the same as Mary. I can tune out people talking to me if I'm
absorbed in a book. There once was this guy at work, I'm sure he was very
nice. But he'd sit down and start yakking at me when I was on break. My
job was stressful so the down time with a book was my way of relaxing and
re-grouping. The ability to tune this guy out was invaluable. The sad
thing is, he never noticed I wasn't paying attention.

Apparently I also have "selective hearing". When I'm watching TV and a
commercial comes on, I pick up the book du jour . I set it down again
when the show resumes. John finds it amazing that I can do this. My father
was the same way.

Jill

On 2012-03-06 9:54 AM, jmcquown wrote:

I'm exactly the same as Mary. I can tune out people talking to me if I'm
absorbed in a book. There once was this guy at work, I'm sure he was
very nice. But he'd sit down and start yakking at me when I was on
break. My job was stressful so the down time with a book was my way of
relaxing and re-grouping. The ability to tune this guy out was
invaluable. The sad thing is, he never noticed I wasn't paying attention.

Apparently I also have "selective hearing". When I'm watching TV and a
commercial comes on, I pick up the book du jour . I set it down again
when the show resumes. John finds it amazing that I can do this. My
father was the same way.

Jill

I can both tune things out and kind of 'semi' tune things out in the
same way.

I used to annoy my teachers when I was in elementary school because I
was often day-dreaming, even when I wasn't actually reading something
else. But - especially if I was only day-dreaming - I could respond to
my name and parrot back whatever she'd just said even though we both
knew I hadn't been listening.

Fortunately, the teacher never asked me for what she'd said a couple of
sentences back, or to summarize what she'd just described or explained.

Looking back, I have some sympathy for my teachers!

--
Cheryl

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...

"Bastette" wrote in message
...
MaryL wrote:

I have been fortunate in that I seem to automatically
"focus" any time I am reading. As a result, I could always study (or
read
for pleasure) even if the TV was blaring and people were talking. My
parents even took a flash picture of me when I was six or seven years
old.
I was only reading the comics, but I did not even know the flash went
off.
Of course--and getting back to what you were talking about--that same
ability to focus meant that someone often had to call my name two or
three
times before I would lose my absorption in the book and pay attention
to
what was being said to me.

I used to be more like that about books. Back before I had a TV and there
was no Internet, I did a lot more reading. And if it was a great book,
I'd get extremely absorbed in it, the same way you describe. People would
have to yell to get my attention.

I'm exactly the same as Mary. I can tune out people talking to me if I'm
absorbed in a book. There once was this guy at work, I'm sure he was very
nice. But he'd sit down and start yakking at me when I was on break. My
job was stressful so the down time with a book was my way of relaxing and
re-grouping. The ability to tune this guy out was invaluable. The sad
thing is, he never noticed I wasn't paying attention.

Apparently I also have "selective hearing". When I'm watching TV and a
commercial comes on, I pick up the book du jour . I set it down again
when the show resumes. John finds it amazing that I can do this. My
father was the same way.

Jill

I do the same thing when watching TV. I can also be unaware of what is
going on around me once I get into a book. I have to be very careful when
waiting in airports, so I won't miss my boarding announcement.

Joy