Help - cat keeps licking her back

grasshopper wrote:

That's absolutely incorrect.

In this case, no it's not. I'm tallking about a behavior created by
circumstance, which is exactly what is going on with your cat. Change
the circumstances and you can modify the behavior.

You have not read my entire post because
if you did you would have realized that
I stated "I have a responsibility to
this animal and I can't just thow it
away," that's not what I want to teach
my daughter. Your statement is biased
and not based on facts. We are doing the
best we can with the situation at hand.

I did read your entire post and you are indeed throwing her away and by
no means doing what's best for her, as you state clearly below.

I will NOT sacrifice my family's welfare
for this animal. This is an animal, not
a human. Willow is dangerous.

Because of circumstances you created and have the power to change.

We have to let Willow outside or she
will attack Lilly or one of us. Letting
a Willow outside 75% of the time is
ok...yet as I said she will get into
fights. She starts them too. Recently
I've seen cats I have never seen
before...there coming from all
over..it's the Ultimate fighting
championship in my back yard. The only
way to stop this is to remove her form
the house.

That's not true. You can cat proof your yard or keep Willow inside and
allow her out on supervised outings. Don't blame Willow for your
laziness and unwillingness to do anything for her that requires effort.


We do not meet her with dislike..she
doesn't want anything to do with us..you
can't give a cat attention if it doesn't
want it. Willow has made her bed, and
this is what she prefers. She can be
nice, but she chooses not to be.

No, she's so stressed out from the trauma she constantly endures that it
doesn't leave room for anything else. And don't think she doesn't pick
up on your true feelings about her. You've already discussed killing her
and plan to abandon her. You've written her off and she can sense it.

1) WE are looking out for Willow's best
interest, your just so caught up in your
own BS you CAN'T SEE IT. Willow is not
happy..we have tried medicine,

You're not using the right one. Elavil is a poor choice for treating
aggression and the drugs I mentioned in my previous post work better. As
to your claim she can't be on much because of some liver/kidney issue,
don't assume we're stupid here. Elavil is also contraindicated, but it
didn't stop you from using it. If you are telling the truth (and I don't
believe you are) and you're using meds anyway, for god's sake try using
one that will actually help.

letting
her do what ever she wants...but she has
not turned around.

She has not turned around because of your failure to change the
circumstances so she isn't in a position to suffer so much stress and
chaos in her life. I gave you steps to a soution. If you choose to
ignore them it just proves my assertion that you would rather be lazy
and cause your daughter and Willow to suffer.

The best solution is
to remove her form the situation so she
can be happy. you also forget Willow is
a danger and I can not have a dangerous
animal in our house. I not throwing her
away or showing my daughter this...

I don't believe that she's so "dangerous." If she was your daughter
wouldn't be in the emotional state she is in and begging you to keep
Willow. You're lying and it comes across loud and clear.

what
I'm teaching my daughter and showing her
is that my daughter means much more then
this animal and my families welfare is
important..even if it takes removing a
loved animal.

No you're not. I wonder how your daughter would feel if she saw how
you're ignoring valuable and experienced advice that could modify
Willow's behavior and help her to stay in the home? She'd know exactly
where you stand and see the ugly truth that this IS a matter of
convenience for you and you don't give a damn about breaking your
daughter's heart.


You forget we have another cat that is
suffering because of willow.

Not at all, and changing the circumstances that are causing Willow to
behave the way she is will improve her behavior and be good for the
other cat.

How is
spending hundreds of dollars on
medicines, blood tests, vet appointments
neglecting her.

Because you're ignoring basic principles of cat behavior, and behavior
is the issue here. Because you have the solution staring you in the face
and you refuse to acknowledge it because it would take effort.

I will not let this
animal rule our life and turn our house
upside down so she won't see another cat
outside.

So, it IS about convenience. Your exaggeration is noted.

Theres a point that we draw the
line, and we have drawn it. You also
forget this animal is a danger and all
it takes is willow biting a child and we
are sued for everything we have.

As you should be if you left a child unsupervised with a dangerous cat.
Yet your daughter loves her and can handle her. You're lying.

You stated I
started and created this problem and
again your insane and an idiot!!!

Not at all. I'm correct and anyone with knowledge of cat behavior and
intercat dynamics would agree with me.

....I'm
going to do what's best for my family
and if moving into a nice neighborhood
which offers my child a wonderful
neighborhood to play in that safe, as
well as provide my wife with a home
she's happy with....and if my cat
doesn't like who give a F**K. It's an
animal and my life isn't ruled by this
animal.

So the truth comes out. Willow is disposable. I was right all along and
you are victimizing Willow and your daughter for no other reason than
that you are selfish and lazy.

I certainly hope that the ethics you practice in medicine are nothing
like those you practice at home. If they are you can kiss your
daughter's college education (and any hope of continuing to be a doctor)
goodbye.

Megan




"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

wrote:

I don't believe that she's so "dangerous." If she was your daughter
wouldn't be in the emotional state she is in and begging you to keep
Willow. You're lying and it comes across loud and clear.

what
I'm teaching my daughter and showing her
is that my daughter means much more then
this animal and my families welfare is
important..even if it takes removing a
loved animal.

No you're not. I wonder how your daughter would feel if she saw how
you're ignoring valuable and experienced advice that could modify
Willow's behavior and help her to stay in the home? She'd know exactly
where you stand and see the ugly truth that this IS a matter of
convenience for you and you don't give a damn about breaking your
daughter's heart.


You forget we have another cat that is
suffering because of willow.

Not at all, and changing the circumstances that are causing Willow to
behave the way she is will improve her behavior and be good for the
other cat.

How is
spending hundreds of dollars on
medicines, blood tests, vet appointments
neglecting her.

Because you're ignoring basic principles of cat behavior, and behavior
is the issue here. Because you have the solution staring you in the face
and you refuse to acknowledge it because it would take effort.

I will not let this
animal rule our life and turn our house
upside down so she won't see another cat
outside.

So, it IS about convenience. Your exaggeration is noted.

Theres a point that we draw the
line, and we have drawn it. You also
forget this animal is a danger and all
it takes is willow biting a child and we
are sued for everything we have.

As you should be if you left a child unsupervised with a dangerous cat.
Yet your daughter loves her and can handle her. You're lying.

You stated I
started and created this problem and
again your insane and an idiot!!!

Not at all. I'm correct and anyone with knowledge of cat behavior and
intercat dynamics would agree with me.

....I'm
going to do what's best for my family
and if moving into a nice neighborhood
which offers my child a wonderful
neighborhood to play in that safe, as
well as provide my wife with a home
she's happy with....and if my cat
doesn't like who give a F**K. It's an
animal and my life isn't ruled by this
animal.

So the truth comes out. Willow is disposable. I was right all along and
you are victimizing Willow and your daughter for no other reason than
that you are selfish and lazy.

I certainly hope that the ethics you practice in medicine are nothing
like those you practice at home. If they are you can kiss your
daughter's college education (and any hope of continuing to be a doctor)
goodbye.

Megan



Is this supposed to be persuasion? The OP originally planned to put the
cat down. A no-kill shelter is a better option. Or, perhaps someone with
some actual persuasive skills might try to talk to her. But you are not
doing
a bit of good with your rabid dog routine. Of course you know that.

Megan,

Well how about this..if you feel so strongly and so knowledgeable in animal behavior..you can adopt her. I would be happy to pay for the shipping...and any other costs associated in getting her to you safely.

Also..some behavior is not reversible as you stated...a change of circumstances or routine will not make everything ok. I don't know exactly what caused this unfortunate incident but I am almost sure this incident was not only caused by a chemical imbalance of some sort, but also the change of homes and other animals in the neighborhood. These two issues together have created an uncontrollable cat. You stated we are utilizing the wrong drug, and in my post I stated Willows Kidney function would not allow a medicine such as Prozac or other chemicals. To put her on a drug like this would cause her kidneys to quite and possibly her liver. So putting her on a drug like this would kill her. So now what....you can't medicate the animal to control it's behavior, it's behavior is not only disturbing our family but our other cat as well..which I have an update below...and all you can do is remove this animal from the residence and hope for a better life for her and us.

AS far as lilly...since we have not allow Willow in the house the past few days (3 to be exact) and lilly has not come into contact with Willow she has stopped licking and has returned to her normal self. She's a sweet as pie. I didn't think it would happen this quick and have her come around like this. This it's a great example how willow's mean spirit has hurt us all, and how removing her from the house has created a better environment for our other animal. She is the problem not us as you state Just look at the statistics...4 to 1.

"grasshopper" wrote in message
...

Megan,

Well how about this..if you feel so strongly and so knowledgeable in
animal behavior..you can adopt her. I would be happy to pay for the
shipping...and any other costs associated in getting her to you
safely.

Also..some behavior is not reversible as you stated...a change of
circumstances or routine will not make everything ok. I don't know
exactly what caused this unfortunate incident but I am almost sure this
incident was not only caused by a chemical imbalance of some sort, but
also the change of homes and other animals in the neighborhood. These
two issues together have created an uncontrollable cat. You stated we
are utilizing the wrong drug, and in my post I stated Willows Kidney
function would not allow a medicine such as Prozac or other chemicals.
To put her on a drug like this would cause her kidneys to quite and
possibly her liver. So putting her on a drug like this would kill her.
So now what....you can't medicate the animal to control it's behavior,
it's behavior is not only disturbing our family but our other cat as
well..which I have an update below...and all you can do is remove this
animal from the residence and hope for a better life for her and us.

AS far as lilly...since we have not allow Willow in the house the past
few days (3 to be exact) and lilly has not come into contact with
Willow she has stopped licking and has returned to her normal self.
She's a sweet as pie. I didn't think it would happen this quick and
have her come around like this. This it's a great example how willow's
mean spirit has hurt us all, and how removing her from the house has
created a better environment for our other animal. She is the problem
not us as you state Just look at the statistics...4 to 1.



And here we have it--exactly what I new from your first post. You do not
care about this cat, and neither Megan's browbeating nor anything else
can MAKE you care about Willow. That's just the way it is--it is the
same with people, we care enough to help some but not others.

Just please don't have her euthanized, take her to a no-kill shelter
with a full explanation of'what has been done to her to make her
aggressive. Perhaps someone there will care enough to try to undo
the damage you have done to her--albeit without meaning to.

She deserves a chance to live. The circumstances of her birth
and upbringing were not her fault, after all.

grasshopper wrote:

Megan,
Well how about this..if you feel so
strongly and so knowledgeable in animal
behavior..you can adopt her. I would be
happy to pay for the shipping...and any
other costs associated in getting her to
you safely.

Here you are again expecting someone else to fix the mess you made. It's
so much easier for you than taking responsibility...

Also..some behavior is not reversible as
you stated...a change of circumstances
or routine will not make everything ok.
I don't know exactly what caused this
unfortunate incident

You know exactly what caused it and it was spelled out to you in a
previous post. Backpedaling at this point doesn't buy you any
credibility.

but I am almost
sure this incident was not only caused
by a chemical imbalance of some sort,
but also the change of homes and other
animals in the neighborhood. These two
issues together have created an
uncontrollable cat.

And I gave you the means to correct the problem.

You stated we are
utilizing the wrong drug, and in my post
I stated Willows Kidney function would
not allow a medicine such as Prozac or
other chemicals. To put her on a drug
like this would cause her kidneys to
quite and possibly her liver. So putting
her on a drug like this would kill her.

B.S. You're lying and it's oh-so-convenient for you to claim supposed
liver/kidney issue after the fact. It sure didn't stop you from putting
her on a medication that is also contraindicated, so stop making a fool
of yourself with your lame lies.

So now what....you can't medicate the
animal to control it's behavior, it's
behavior is not only disturbing our
family but our other cat as well..which
I have an update below...and all you can
do is remove this animal from the
residence and hope for a better life for
her and us.

Again, I gave you the means to correct the problem, much of which does
not involve medications and only involves simple steps to eliminate the
outside influences that created Willow's behavior in the first place.

AS far as lilly...since we have not
allow Willow in the house the past few
days (3 to be exact) and lilly has not
come into contact with Willow she has
stopped licking and has returned to her
normal self. She's a sweet as pie. I
didn't think it would happen this quick
and have her come around like this.

Isn't it funny how a change of circumstances or routine made everything
ok? And quickly too. How about that, especially when you said it
couldn't be done a few paragraphs ago. The same could be done for Willow
if you weren't so lazy and heartless.

This
it's a great example how willow's mean
spirit has hurt us all, and how removing
her from the house has created a better
environment for our other animal. She is
the problem not us as you state

You're wrong. YOU are the problem and YOU have forced Willow to become
the way she is because of your ignorance and insistence on forcing her
to be in a stressful and harmful environment, one that could be modified
to eliminate the stress and harm if you had a heart. I bet if your
daughter was made aware of what was needed she would try anything and
try to do it all herself if she had to, even at 9 years old. She
obviously cares deeply about Willow and seems to be the only one in your
household with a heart. Hopefully she'll be immune to your
unconscionably irresponsible and cold hearted influences and grow up to
be a decent human being in spite of you.

Just
look at the statistics...4 to 1.

Gang mentality is not a statistic.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

grasshopper wrote:
Megan,

Well how about this..if you feel so strongly and so knowledgeable in
animal behavior..you can adopt her. I would be happy to pay for the
shipping...and any other costs associated in getting her to you
safely.

Also..some behavior is not reversible as you stated...a change of
circumstances or routine will not make everything ok.

Sometimes it does.

I don't know
exactly what caused this unfortunate incident

Megan spelled it out. YOU created it. YOU just don't want to accept
the responsibility.

but I am almost sure this
incident was not only caused by a chemical imbalance of some sort, but
also the change of homes and other animals in the neighborhood. These
two issues together have created an uncontrollable cat. You stated we
are utilizing the wrong drug, and in my post I stated Willows Kidney
function would not allow a medicine such as Prozac or other chemicals.
To put her on a drug like this would cause her kidneys to quite and
possibly her liver. So putting her on a drug like this would kill her.

Prozac isn't know to be excessively hard on organ function - certainly
not any more so than Elavil.

So now what....you can't medicate the animal to control it's behavior,
it's behavior is not only disturbing our family but our other cat as
well..which I have an update below...and all you can do is remove this
animal from the residence and hope for a better life for her and us.

AS far as lilly...since we have not allow Willow in the house the past
few days (3 to be exact) and lilly has not come into contact with
Willow she has stopped licking and has returned to her normal self.
She's a sweet as pie. I didn't think it would happen this quick and
have her come around like this. This it's a great example how willow's
mean spirit has hurt us all,

A cat is incapable of having a "mean spirit". They function on
instinct. You have created her behavior.

and how removing her from the house has
created a better environment for our other animal. She is the problem
not us as you state Just look at the statistics...4 to 1.


Do the cat a favor and take it to a shelter where it has a chance at a
better life. And please do not get any more animals until you
understand animal behavior a little better. Your ignorance and
inappropriate actions toward and with the cat have created this
situation.

[Sheesh. It's people like this that make me want to quit rescue, quit
working in the field. Mess up an animal's life and then blame the
animal. I've seen it far too many times, and it disgusts me every,
single time...]

-L.

"-L." wrote in message
oups.com...

grasshopper wrote:
Megan,

Well how about this..if you feel so strongly and so knowledgeable in
animal behavior..you can adopt her. I would be happy to pay for the
shipping...and any other costs associated in getting her to you
safely.

Also..some behavior is not reversible as you stated...a change of
circumstances or routine will not make everything ok.

Sometimes it does.

I don't know
exactly what caused this unfortunate incident

Megan spelled it out. YOU created it. YOU just don't want to accept
the responsibility.

but I am almost sure this
incident was not only caused by a chemical imbalance of some sort, but
also the change of homes and other animals in the neighborhood. These
two issues together have created an uncontrollable cat. You stated we
are utilizing the wrong drug, and in my post I stated Willows Kidney
function would not allow a medicine such as Prozac or other chemicals.
To put her on a drug like this would cause her kidneys to quite and
possibly her liver. So putting her on a drug like this would kill her.

Prozac isn't know to be excessively hard on organ function - certainly
not any more so than Elavil.

So now what....you can't medicate the animal to control it's behavior,
it's behavior is not only disturbing our family but our other cat as
well..which I have an update below...and all you can do is remove this
animal from the residence and hope for a better life for her and us.

AS far as lilly...since we have not allow Willow in the house the past
few days (3 to be exact) and lilly has not come into contact with
Willow she has stopped licking and has returned to her normal self.
She's a sweet as pie. I didn't think it would happen this quick and
have her come around like this. This it's a great example how willow's
mean spirit has hurt us all,

A cat is incapable of having a "mean spirit". They function on
instinct. You have created her behavior.

and how removing her from the house has
created a better environment for our other animal. She is the problem
not us as you state Just look at the statistics...4 to 1.


Do the cat a favor and take it to a shelter where it has a chance at a
better life. And please do not get any more animals until you
understand animal behavior a little better. Your ignorance and
inappropriate actions toward and with the cat have created this
situation.

[Sheesh. It's people like this that make me want to quit rescue, quit
working in the field. Mess up an animal's life and then blame the
animal. I've seen it far too many times, and it disgusts me every,
single time...]

-L.


Nicely put, Lyn.

In June when you posted about the problem with Willow, you mentioned the
biting the vet's face incident. The next time you took her to the vet,
you said she was purring and was the perfect cat with him.

Did Willow go back since then and try to bite his face again? It sounded
to me like things were better at the vet's.

I think you should try Megan's suggestions, the different drugs that she
mentioned to you in June, and now. The behavioral things you can try. It
does not sound like this cat is a threat to your daughter.

I know you've tried several things already, but try the things Megan
mentioned. Show your daughter by your actions that every life is
precious. Keeping the cat outside is only avoiding the issue and making
her more miserable, and probably more aggressive.

Good luck,

Rhonda

grasshopper wrote:

Last time we had the vet look
willow over he had to handle her and she disliked this. She tried to
bite his face, and he had to restrain her with 2 hands around her neck.

cybercat wrote:

Nicely put, Lyn.

Thank you, Nancy.

-L.

I wrote:
Fluoxetine -.5 mg per pound,
Clomipramine- 5 mg per pound

There was a typo wrt the clomipramine dose and it should read:

Fluoxetine -.5 mg per pound, Clomipramine- ***.5***mg per pound.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray