Sethran? Misdirected aggression again

"teri" wrote in message
...


I certainly agree that I am not going to be petting cool ole Simba
anymore, I think it is strange he has never before had any effect on
her, (he is around a lot and I pet him alot) so I think that it was a
combination of me startling her when I came in the door, plus Simba's
scent. So three times now this has happened when I had just handled
other cats, and once with noise. Two episodes where pretty mild, she
just followed me around while yowling hissing and growling, and two
where she screamed and tried to launch full scale attacks which had me
cornered and rendered motionless until she was contained - for those
she didn't "come down" for at least 6 hours.
And two of the big and one small episode have all happened in the past
three months.

I am now thinking about medication for her, but of course am afraid of
the other effects they may have on her, along with side effects.
Any thought on meds? I know Sethran used Valium for a while.

Again, thank you.
Teri
and Jewel and Seamus.


I think you have written about some previous episodes with both Jewel and
Seamus. Did you ever try Feliway? I would certainly try that (using
several of the plug-in dispensers) before I would move in the direction of
medication. Also, do you have any way in which you could keep other cats
out of your yard? Some cats do manifest misdirected aggression, even after
years of seeing other cats -- and yours have shown this tendency on other
occasions (such as the time you dropped something when coming upstairs, and
Jewel apparently had such an episode). If your yard is fenced, it is
possible to reinforce it with an outward-facing apparatus at the top to keep
other cats out. Here are some illustrations of methods used to keep cats
*in*; reverse the idea to keep cats *out.*
http://www.lisaviolet.com/cathouse/backyard.html and
http://www.catfencein.com/ I have seen some sites where inward-facing
fencing is available commercially, but it would be a lot less expensive to
do it yourself or hire a neighborhood "jack of all trades" to do it for you.
If you do not have a fence, there is a Scarecrow motion-activated sprinkler
that some people use http://www.biconet.com/critter/sprinkler.html.

MaryL

teri wrote in message . ..

She knows a lot about it, but anyone may chime in.
I might just be writing for therapy though.

*chime* *chime* Lady you need psycho-therapy and possibly a labotomy.
I have never read such drivel in my life. You could be suffering from
the 3rd stage of cat scrath fever, better see a doctor soon!

teri wrote in message . ..

She knows a lot about it, but anyone may chime in.
I might just be writing for therapy though.

*chime* *chime* Lady you need psycho-therapy and possibly a labotomy.
I have never read such drivel in my life. You could be suffering from
the 3rd stage of cat scrath fever, better see a doctor soon!

I think you have written about some previous episodes with both Jewel and
Seamus. Did you ever try Feliway? I would certainly try that (using
several of the plug-in dispensers) before I would move in the direction of
medication.
Yeah, medicating her is definitely not my first choice, but we also
can't live walking on egg shells and in constant fear of triggering
her.
I can't say that I am convinced Feliway does any good with our guys,
but I have had diffusers on both levels of the house for ... maybe a
year, I can't remember. I do appreciate that suggestion because I
would get them if I didn't have them already.

Also, do you have any way in which you could keep other cats
out of your yard? Some cats do manifest misdirected aggression, even after
years of seeing other cats --
Ok, good to know that, but unfortunately I can't put any fence up. I
maybe could screen in the front porch and get away with that, but I
have tried to figure out how to do the rest, like in front of the
windows, but that won't work. We are in a little block of row homes.

If you do not have a fence, there is a Scarecrow motion-activated sprinkler
that some people use http://www.biconet.com/critter/sprinkler.html.
That is possibly feasible. Plus the one neighbor would appreciate
that too since the sight of Simba causes their cat to attack whoever
is closest to him. Although their cat goes for the one vicious lunge
and is done with it, not near the extent of Jewel's reaction.
Unfortunately the sidewalk is pretty close and Simba walks by a lot
and can be seen in all directions from the windows.

In my research I think that her misplaced aggression episodes are
comprised of both fear aggression and territorial aggression.
Although she never has gotten aggressive in a normal fashion she is
very timid. Like if there is a new pair of sneakers laying in the
living room, she will take 5 minutes sneaking up on it and finally bat
it and jump half a foot high because she is afraid it will bat back.
Or when something loud is dropped, or a door bangs really hard next
door, or any form of loud sudden noise occurs, both cats react pretty
strongly for a few seconds - flee, puff, panicked look in their eyes.
Seamus always then acts spooked for a while, but has no aggression
whatsoever, Jewel *usually* will calm right down on her own, or with
one little pet. And as far as being territorial, if Seamus is on a
window she wants to be on, she will just go up to him, growl and whack
him a few times and he will get down. Or she might just walk by him
while he is laying on the floor and do the same thing. So, even if I
could eliminate all chance of any other cat disturbance, there is no
way to prevent the fear... factor.
Anyway, this morning Jewel was very timid and checking things out very
closely when she came out of her room, let me hold her and comb her,
purred a bit, then for no reason that I could even tell, she started
to stalk, yowl, growl, etc, at me whenever I moved a muscle. For now
though she finally looks comfortable like I think she is completely
over it (sure hope so).

Sorry this is so long, like I said, therapy.
Oh, and I do have a call to their vet to discuss things.
Thanks again,
Teri

I think you have written about some previous episodes with both Jewel and
Seamus. Did you ever try Feliway? I would certainly try that (using
several of the plug-in dispensers) before I would move in the direction of
medication.
Yeah, medicating her is definitely not my first choice, but we also
can't live walking on egg shells and in constant fear of triggering
her.
I can't say that I am convinced Feliway does any good with our guys,
but I have had diffusers on both levels of the house for ... maybe a
year, I can't remember. I do appreciate that suggestion because I
would get them if I didn't have them already.

Also, do you have any way in which you could keep other cats
out of your yard? Some cats do manifest misdirected aggression, even after
years of seeing other cats --
Ok, good to know that, but unfortunately I can't put any fence up. I
maybe could screen in the front porch and get away with that, but I
have tried to figure out how to do the rest, like in front of the
windows, but that won't work. We are in a little block of row homes.

If you do not have a fence, there is a Scarecrow motion-activated sprinkler
that some people use http://www.biconet.com/critter/sprinkler.html.
That is possibly feasible. Plus the one neighbor would appreciate
that too since the sight of Simba causes their cat to attack whoever
is closest to him. Although their cat goes for the one vicious lunge
and is done with it, not near the extent of Jewel's reaction.
Unfortunately the sidewalk is pretty close and Simba walks by a lot
and can be seen in all directions from the windows.

In my research I think that her misplaced aggression episodes are
comprised of both fear aggression and territorial aggression.
Although she never has gotten aggressive in a normal fashion she is
very timid. Like if there is a new pair of sneakers laying in the
living room, she will take 5 minutes sneaking up on it and finally bat
it and jump half a foot high because she is afraid it will bat back.
Or when something loud is dropped, or a door bangs really hard next
door, or any form of loud sudden noise occurs, both cats react pretty
strongly for a few seconds - flee, puff, panicked look in their eyes.
Seamus always then acts spooked for a while, but has no aggression
whatsoever, Jewel *usually* will calm right down on her own, or with
one little pet. And as far as being territorial, if Seamus is on a
window she wants to be on, she will just go up to him, growl and whack
him a few times and he will get down. Or she might just walk by him
while he is laying on the floor and do the same thing. So, even if I
could eliminate all chance of any other cat disturbance, there is no
way to prevent the fear... factor.
Anyway, this morning Jewel was very timid and checking things out very
closely when she came out of her room, let me hold her and comb her,
purred a bit, then for no reason that I could even tell, she started
to stalk, yowl, growl, etc, at me whenever I moved a muscle. For now
though she finally looks comfortable like I think she is completely
over it (sure hope so).

Sorry this is so long, like I said, therapy.
Oh, and I do have a call to their vet to discuss things.
Thanks again,
Teri

"teri" wrote in message
...

I think you have written about some previous episodes with both Jewel and
Seamus. Did you ever try Feliway? I would certainly try that (using
several of the plug-in dispensers) before I would move in the direction
of
medication.
Yeah, medicating her is definitely not my first choice, but we also
can't live walking on egg shells and in constant fear of triggering
her.
I can't say that I am convinced Feliway does any good with our guys,
but I have had diffusers on both levels of the house for ... maybe a
year, I can't remember. I do appreciate that suggestion because I
would get them if I didn't have them already.

Also, do you have any way in which you could keep other cats
out of your yard? Some cats do manifest misdirected aggression, even
after
years of seeing other cats --
Ok, good to know that, but unfortunately I can't put any fence up. I
maybe could screen in the front porch and get away with that, but I
have tried to figure out how to do the rest, like in front of the
windows, but that won't work. We are in a little block of row homes.

If you do not have a fence, there is a Scarecrow motion-activated
sprinkler
that some people use http://www.biconet.com/critter/sprinkler.html.
That is possibly feasible. Plus the one neighbor would appreciate
that too since the sight of Simba causes their cat to attack whoever
is closest to him. Although their cat goes for the one vicious lunge
and is done with it, not near the extent of Jewel's reaction.
Unfortunately the sidewalk is pretty close and Simba walks by a lot
and can be seen in all directions from the windows.

In my research I think that her misplaced aggression episodes are
comprised of both fear aggression and territorial aggression.
Although she never has gotten aggressive in a normal fashion she is
very timid. Like if there is a new pair of sneakers laying in the
living room, she will take 5 minutes sneaking up on it and finally bat
it and jump half a foot high because she is afraid it will bat back.
Or when something loud is dropped, or a door bangs really hard next
door, or any form of loud sudden noise occurs, both cats react pretty
strongly for a few seconds - flee, puff, panicked look in their eyes.
Seamus always then acts spooked for a while, but has no aggression
whatsoever, Jewel *usually* will calm right down on her own, or with
one little pet. And as far as being territorial, if Seamus is on a
window she wants to be on, she will just go up to him, growl and whack
him a few times and he will get down. Or she might just walk by him
while he is laying on the floor and do the same thing. So, even if I
could eliminate all chance of any other cat disturbance, there is no
way to prevent the fear... factor.
Anyway, this morning Jewel was very timid and checking things out very
closely when she came out of her room, let me hold her and comb her,
purred a bit, then for no reason that I could even tell, she started
to stalk, yowl, growl, etc, at me whenever I moved a muscle. For now
though she finally looks comfortable like I think she is completely
over it (sure hope so).

Sorry this is so long, like I said, therapy.
Oh, and I do have a call to their vet to discuss things.
Thanks again,
Teri


Teri,

I wonder if you would be interested in the Tufts University School of
Veterinary Medicine PETFAX program. PETFAX is a "remote" consulting program
for behavioral problems (that is, via telephone or fax). I think the
current fee is $87.00. I paid for this program on behalf of my sister, and
they did advise Prozac in her case. We completed an extensive questionnaire
first (including medical history). The basic fee includes three 15-minute
consultations. They cannot give a prescription for Prozac, but they can
give advice on feasibility and dosage; then your own vote would write the
prescription.

Contact information for PETFAX --
URL = http://www.tufts.edu/vet/petfax/index.html
Phone = 1-508-887-4640
MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o'
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

"teri" wrote in message
...

I think you have written about some previous episodes with both Jewel and
Seamus. Did you ever try Feliway? I would certainly try that (using
several of the plug-in dispensers) before I would move in the direction
of
medication.
Yeah, medicating her is definitely not my first choice, but we also
can't live walking on egg shells and in constant fear of triggering
her.
I can't say that I am convinced Feliway does any good with our guys,
but I have had diffusers on both levels of the house for ... maybe a
year, I can't remember. I do appreciate that suggestion because I
would get them if I didn't have them already.

Also, do you have any way in which you could keep other cats
out of your yard? Some cats do manifest misdirected aggression, even
after
years of seeing other cats --
Ok, good to know that, but unfortunately I can't put any fence up. I
maybe could screen in the front porch and get away with that, but I
have tried to figure out how to do the rest, like in front of the
windows, but that won't work. We are in a little block of row homes.

If you do not have a fence, there is a Scarecrow motion-activated
sprinkler
that some people use http://www.biconet.com/critter/sprinkler.html.
That is possibly feasible. Plus the one neighbor would appreciate
that too since the sight of Simba causes their cat to attack whoever
is closest to him. Although their cat goes for the one vicious lunge
and is done with it, not near the extent of Jewel's reaction.
Unfortunately the sidewalk is pretty close and Simba walks by a lot
and can be seen in all directions from the windows.

In my research I think that her misplaced aggression episodes are
comprised of both fear aggression and territorial aggression.
Although she never has gotten aggressive in a normal fashion she is
very timid. Like if there is a new pair of sneakers laying in the
living room, she will take 5 minutes sneaking up on it and finally bat
it and jump half a foot high because she is afraid it will bat back.
Or when something loud is dropped, or a door bangs really hard next
door, or any form of loud sudden noise occurs, both cats react pretty
strongly for a few seconds - flee, puff, panicked look in their eyes.
Seamus always then acts spooked for a while, but has no aggression
whatsoever, Jewel *usually* will calm right down on her own, or with
one little pet. And as far as being territorial, if Seamus is on a
window she wants to be on, she will just go up to him, growl and whack
him a few times and he will get down. Or she might just walk by him
while he is laying on the floor and do the same thing. So, even if I
could eliminate all chance of any other cat disturbance, there is no
way to prevent the fear... factor.
Anyway, this morning Jewel was very timid and checking things out very
closely when she came out of her room, let me hold her and comb her,
purred a bit, then for no reason that I could even tell, she started
to stalk, yowl, growl, etc, at me whenever I moved a muscle. For now
though she finally looks comfortable like I think she is completely
over it (sure hope so).

Sorry this is so long, like I said, therapy.
Oh, and I do have a call to their vet to discuss things.
Thanks again,
Teri


Teri,

I wonder if you would be interested in the Tufts University School of
Veterinary Medicine PETFAX program. PETFAX is a "remote" consulting program
for behavioral problems (that is, via telephone or fax). I think the
current fee is $87.00. I paid for this program on behalf of my sister, and
they did advise Prozac in her case. We completed an extensive questionnaire
first (including medical history). The basic fee includes three 15-minute
consultations. They cannot give a prescription for Prozac, but they can
give advice on feasibility and dosage; then your own vote would write the
prescription.

Contact information for PETFAX --
URL = http://www.tufts.edu/vet/petfax/index.html
Phone = 1-508-887-4640
MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o'
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

Thanks. I definitely am going to keep that, and it is a good
consideration. Even though the M.A. is not behavioural, maybe the
underlying fear and stuff could be worked on to prevent it being
triggered. For curiosity's sake, what was the problem with your
sister's cat, and was it helped with the Prozac?
Teri

(vet's office just called back, appt. for tomorrow to check for any
"medical issues"). She hates going there so bad, cries the whole way
~10 minutes that seems like 10 hours, and when she is there she just
lays completely flat on the table hoping they don't see her :-(. But
I know it has to be done)

I wonder if you would be interested in the Tufts University School of
Veterinary Medicine PETFAX program. PETFAX is a "remote" consulting program
for behavioral problems (that is, via telephone or fax). I think the
current fee is $87.00. I paid for this program on behalf of my sister, and
they did advise Prozac in her case. We completed an extensive questionnaire
first (including medical history). The basic fee includes three 15-minute
consultations. They cannot give a prescription for Prozac, but they can
give advice on feasibility and dosage; then your own vote would write the
prescription.

Contact information for PETFAX --
URL = http://www.tufts.edu/vet/petfax/index.html
Phone = 1-508-887-4640
MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o'
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

Thanks. I definitely am going to keep that, and it is a good
consideration. Even though the M.A. is not behavioural, maybe the
underlying fear and stuff could be worked on to prevent it being
triggered. For curiosity's sake, what was the problem with your
sister's cat, and was it helped with the Prozac?
Teri

(vet's office just called back, appt. for tomorrow to check for any
"medical issues"). She hates going there so bad, cries the whole way
~10 minutes that seems like 10 hours, and when she is there she just
lays completely flat on the table hoping they don't see her :-(. But
I know it has to be done)

I wonder if you would be interested in the Tufts University School of
Veterinary Medicine PETFAX program. PETFAX is a "remote" consulting program
for behavioral problems (that is, via telephone or fax). I think the
current fee is $87.00. I paid for this program on behalf of my sister, and
they did advise Prozac in her case. We completed an extensive questionnaire
first (including medical history). The basic fee includes three 15-minute
consultations. They cannot give a prescription for Prozac, but they can
give advice on feasibility and dosage; then your own vote would write the
prescription.

Contact information for PETFAX --
URL = http://www.tufts.edu/vet/petfax/index.html
Phone = 1-508-887-4640
MaryL
(take out the litter to reply)

Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o'
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

"teri" wrote in message
...

For curiosity's sake, what was the problem with your
sister's cat, and was it helped with the Prozac?
Teri



Yes, Prozac did work for my sister's cat. She has 3 cats. Unfortunately,
they were all declawed as kittens; and her experience almost precisely
mimics the statistics for declawed cats. One of her cats is a friendly,
loving cat -- the laid-back type where you would think there would be no
behavioral issues. However, he started to spray - and spray - and spray,
etc. He sprayed everywhere, both horizontal and vertical surfaces. Just to
make it worse, he also has a history of UTI; so it was always important to
have frequent medical exams and distinguish between spraying and
inappropriate urination. The odor was truly obnoxious. She worked through
this for 2 years, including a long trip to a holistic vet. She had also
tried other prescription medications, such as buspar and amitriptyline.
Nothing worked, and the spraying got worse and worse. However, the Prozac
that Tufts recommended really has been effective. As far as I know, there
have been no further spraying episodes since then. She is also using a
different litter (one specifically formulated to attract "problem" cats),
and that seems to have resolved the inappropriate urination issues except
when UTI is a problem. I suspect that the fact that he is declawed has also
contributed to that problem.

MaryL