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#21
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brain fart or how keep kitten from biting
On 7/09/2011 5:33 PM, CatNipped wrote:
On 9/7/2011 2:16 AM, Yowie wrote: In , typed: *snip* After posting the video showing that this milder form of remonstrance works immediately and well and in a manner cats understand and respect, he still insisted that yelling at cats and grabbing their teeth is the way to handle the situation. Thats not how I saw it. Sorry, I *do* consider that "bordering on abuse" - if it were not would "they hate that" apply? Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they hate the feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why putting alfoil down on a surface you don't want them on works, they hate loud hissing noises - which is why an air can works, and apparently hate the smell of citrus - which is why people recommend using citrus smell to deter cats. None of which would be considered abusive. The question is one of /harm/ - is the cat being *harmed* by whatever it is Matthew is doing? I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. using such a strong word as 'abuse' to express your distaste of his cat training method smacks of a certain cat lady here who would consider feeding cats generic supermarket cat food 'abuse' too. Perhaps there are better ways of doing things, but not doing things the best way is a long way from abuse. Yowie Ergo the use of "bordering on". A *very* large grown man screaming and grabbing at the teeth of a cat thirty five times plus smaller in size and "rubbing back and forth" sounds violent to me - how much more pressure might it take to break a tooth? May I humbly suggest, given what you write below, that due to being a victim of abuse yourself, you are reading much more into Matthew's words (and creating a violent scene for yourself to judge by, such as you paint above, based on that abuse) that doesn't match the mere 10 words he actually wrote? And in the face of being given a not only gentler, but much more effect solution, he instead insisted his bullying is the better solution Matthew stated that a) he believes his method works, b) he sees no evidence of his cats feeling abused when he does this and c) that he doesn't think your method would work on his cats. So far, it seems to be a difference of opinion on training methods to me. YMMV. Maybe having been the victim of a somewhat similar situation makes me more sensitive to the implications and feelings of the smaller creature, the fear this can invoke, makes my stomach turn. Again, that's my opinion and continuing to chastise me for my opinion is not going to change it. I ask again, can we discontinue the conversation? I'm not intending to 'chastise' *you* (you know I don't indulge in ad hominem), I'm merely questioning whether using a word as strong as 'abuse' was warranted, especially in a group that - quite demonstrably- descends into a raging flame fest at the mere hint of potential animal abuse. Tell you what, for the sake of the friendship that we both enjoy, if we can agree that: a) there is no way *any* of us can accurately ascertain or judge the reality of situation between Matthew and his cats based on just 10 words posted to Usenet b) that I - based on all of Matthew's other posts over the years - can't for a moment imagine Matthew doing anything to knowingly cause harm to his cats, and c) that you are entirely entitled to your opinion sure, we can drop it. attach: olive_branch.jpg Yowie |
#22
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brain fart or how keep kitten from biting
On Sep 7, 2:33*am, CatNipped wrote:
On 9/7/2011 2:16 AM, Yowie wrote: , *typed: *snip* After posting the video showing that this milder form of remonstrance works immediately and well and in a manner cats understand and respect, he still insisted that yelling at cats and grabbing their teeth is the way to handle the situation. Thats not how I saw it. Sorry, I *do* consider that "bordering on abuse" - if it were not would "they hate that" apply? Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they hate the feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why putting alfoil down on a surface you don't want them on works, they hate loud hissing noises - which is why an air can works, and apparently hate the smell of citrus - which is why people recommend using citrus smell to deter cats. None of which would be considered abusive. The question is one of /harm/ *- is the cat being *harmed* by whatever it is Matthew is doing? I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. using such a strong word as 'abuse' to express your distaste of his cat training method smacks of a certain cat lady here who would consider feeding cats generic supermarket cat food 'abuse' too. Perhaps there are better ways of doing things, but not doing things the best way is a long way from abuse. Yowie Ergo the use of "bordering on". *A *very* large grown man screaming and grabbing at the teeth of a cat thirty five times plus smaller in size and "rubbing back and forth" sounds violent to me - how much more pressure might it take to break a tooth? *And in the face of being given a not only gentler, but much more effect solution, he instead insisted his bullying is the better solution. *Maybe having been the victim of a somewhat similar situation makes me more sensitive to the implications and feelings of the smaller creature, the fear this can invoke, makes my stomach turn. *Again, that's my opinion and continuing to chastise me for my opinion is not going to change it. *I ask again, can we discontinue the conversation? -- Hugs, CatNipped Oh, come ON. PLEASE. I had no intention of writing anything at all in this thread, but just please think about this for half a second. You're talking about Matthew. MATTHEW of rpca for I-don't-know-how- many-years. Accusing him of not just abuse, but inferring VIOLENCE against any cat is way, way over the top drama. You don't like him, and that's fine, but in your heart of hearts you *know* Matthew's cats run all over him and he'd spend himself broke for them just like you or I. Sherry |
#23
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brain fart or how keep kitten from biting
On Sep 5, 7:03*pm, (Michael Lane) wrote:
go to welding supply house, get set leather welding *sleeves, pull on over arms cannot bite thru only 10.00 can take seam out use on legs, i have a TERROR , hopefully he be out this soon, spank him but he likes it . best regards, Michael Lane Welding gloves are indispensible for anybody, especially for anyone who handles strays sometimes. They're the next best thing to Kevlar gloves that vets use, but those are terribly expensive. Sherry |
#24
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brain fart or how keep kitten from biting
"Sherry" wrote in message ... On Sep 5, 7:03 pm, (Michael Lane) wrote: go to welding supply house, get set leather welding sleeves, pull on over arms cannot bite thru only 10.00 can take seam out use on legs, i have a TERROR , hopefully he be out this soon, spank him but he likes it . best regards, Michael Lane Welding gloves are indispensible for anybody, especially for anyone who handles strays sometimes. They're the next best thing to Kevlar gloves that vets use, but those are terribly expensive. Sherry The have some welding gloves that are tight fight not the bulky ones for about $25 |
#25
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brain fart or how keep kitten from biting
"Yowie" wrote in message ... On 7/09/2011 5:33 PM, CatNipped wrote: On 9/7/2011 2:16 AM, Yowie wrote: In , typed: *snip* After posting the video showing that this milder form of remonstrance works immediately and well and in a manner cats understand and respect, he still insisted that yelling at cats and grabbing their teeth is the way to handle the situation. Thats not how I saw it. Sorry, I *do* consider that "bordering on abuse" - if it were not would "they hate that" apply? Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they hate the feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why putting alfoil down on a surface you don't want them on works, they hate loud hissing noises - which is why an air can works, and apparently hate the smell of citrus - which is why people recommend using citrus smell to deter cats. None of which would be considered abusive. The question is one of /harm/ - is the cat being *harmed* by whatever it is Matthew is doing? I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. using such a strong word as 'abuse' to express your distaste of his cat training method smacks of a certain cat lady here who would consider feeding cats generic supermarket cat food 'abuse' too. Perhaps there are better ways of doing things, but not doing things the best way is a long way from abuse. Yowie Ergo the use of "bordering on". A *very* large grown man screaming and grabbing at the teeth of a cat thirty five times plus smaller in size and "rubbing back and forth" sounds violent to me - how much more pressure might it take to break a tooth? May I humbly suggest, given what you write below, that due to being a victim of abuse yourself, you are reading much more into Matthew's words (and creating a violent scene for yourself to judge by, such as you paint above, based on that abuse) that doesn't match the mere 10 words he actually wrote? And in the face of being given a not only gentler, but much more effect solution, he instead insisted his bullying is the better solution Matthew stated that a) he believes his method works, b) he sees no evidence of his cats feeling abused when he does this and c) that he doesn't think your method would work on his cats. So far, it seems to be a difference of opinion on training methods to me. YMMV. Maybe having been the victim of a somewhat similar situation makes me more sensitive to the implications and feelings of the smaller creature, the fear this can invoke, makes my stomach turn. Again, that's my opinion and continuing to chastise me for my opinion is not going to change it. I ask again, can we discontinue the conversation? I'm not intending to 'chastise' *you* (you know I don't indulge in ad hominem), I'm merely questioning whether using a word as strong as 'abuse' was warranted, especially in a group that - quite demonstrably- descends into a raging flame fest at the mere hint of potential animal abuse. Tell you what, for the sake of the friendship that we both enjoy, if we can agree that: a) there is no way *any* of us can accurately ascertain or judge the reality of situation between Matthew and his cats based on just 10 words posted to Usenet b) that I - based on all of Matthew's other posts over the years - can't for a moment imagine Matthew doing anything to knowingly cause harm to his cats, and c) that you are entirely entitled to your opinion sure, we can drop it. attach: olive_branch.jpg Yowie Thank you Yowie, I have in no way no how ever abuse or abused my cats or EVER WILL. I have jammer laying on one of my arms. He was a rescue from a shelter from a lady who had to give him up due to domestic violence and was abused himself. This furball is a prince of his palace. The rest of the pack suffer also from all the royal benefits of being pampered spoiled fur nuts. If this is abuse from all being spoiled may I die a happy death like this ;-) IMO Lori has a major mental problem ( has for years before her sickness) and she will remain in my kill file no more chances. Her past events plus this BS she pulled have led me to this permanent decision. I am sorry but she is a drama queen and this group seems to be her attention play ground sometimes. I had been nice before but she stays in the kill file there is no forgiveness for her comments. |
#26
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brain fart or how keep kitten from biting
Yowie wrote:
Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they hate the feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why putting alfoil down on a surface you don't want them on works, they hate loud hissing noises - which is why an air can works, and apparently hate the smell of citrus - which is why people recommend using citrus smell to deter cats. None of This is so amazing to me. You are not just a logical person, you also always seem to have lists of examples to support your points, right at your fingertips. I'm logical, too, so while I admire that in others, it's not this total mystery to me - I understand how to do that. But the ability to come up with so many specific details when needed always impresses me, because it's so foreign to me. Joyce -- Hi, this is the Sylvia stress reduction hotline. At the sound of the beep, repeat after me: "This week, let someone else strive for excellence." -- Nicole Hollander |
#27
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brain fart or how keep kitten from biting
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#28
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brain fart or how keep kitten from biting
Yowie wrote:
On 7/09/2011 4:35 PM, wrote: Yowie wrote: typed: Yowie wrote: Yowie (anti-pitchfork since '98) What happened *before* '98, that's what I want to know. I wasn't posting on Usenet?g,d&r Newbie! Joyce - posting on Usenet since 1988 I am suitably humbled in the presence of an Elder ;-P Thank you. I might as well get something out of being an old fart! Joyce -- - Your mom and I are going to divorce next month. - What??? Why! Call me please? - I wrote Disney and this phone changed it. We are going to Disney. -- damnyouautocorrect.com |
#29
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brain fart or how keep kitten from biting
Yowie wrote:
wrote: Yowie wrote: Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they hate the feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why putting alfoil down on a surface you don't want them on works, they hate loud hissing noises - which is why an air can works, and apparently hate the smell of citrus - which is why people recommend using citrus smell to deter cats. None of This is so amazing to me. You are not just a logical person, you also always seem to have lists of examples to support your points, right at your fingertips. I'm logical, too, so while I admire that in others, it's not this total mystery to me - I understand how to do that. But the ability to come up with so many specific details when needed always impresses me, because it's so foreign to me. *Blush*, gosh, thanks, Joyce. Guess it comes with the job I do. I need to accrue a butt-load of facts that all tell the same story before I can recommend any product that we've been developing to go ahead to marketting based on its technical capabilities. There's a whole raft of different properties it *must* have, as well as whole other one where its *greatly desirable* to have (often direct opposites of each other (eg, you can't have 'really glossy' and 'low glare' at the same time, even though it would be very desirable to do both) and I need to put them all together, explain them so that marketting people - not techical people - can understand and convey to the customers, and then say, 'yup, its good to go', 'not quite there, but a tweak here and here shoudl get you through' or 'go back to the drawing board'. So pulling a whole bunch of different data out of my head to support the case is just what I have to do, often on the fly. It sounds like your work lets you practice those skills, but if you hadn't had some of that to begin with, you probably wouldn't have ended up in a science field. I'm one of those people who, if I'm holding a guitar while at a gathering, and someone says, "Hey, Joyce, play something for us", my mind goes totally blank. Sorry, I don't know any songs. Yeah, right. I know tons of songs. But not when I really *need* to know them. Similarly, when I'm in a disagreement with someone, although I can make arguments that sound good, in that they're logical and they make sense, I can never remember the facts that would also substantiate the argument as *correct*. Then I kick myself later as I start remembering stuff, when it's too late. What does your company make, anyway? Paint? Joyce -- - Your mom and I are going to divorce next month. - What??? Why! Call me please? - I wrote Disney and this phone changed it. We are going to Disney. -- damnyouautocorrect.com |
#30
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brain fart or how keep kitten from biting
"Yowie" wrote in message ... In , CatNipped typed: *snip* yell at their cats and grab their teeth to "rub back and forth", that's bordering on abuse and I won't ignore that. Watch the video I posted if you have any doubts about what I recommend working. I've never, ever had it fail on any cat, mine or others. Don't bother responding, I won't see it. Oh come on Lori, whilst yelling 'Ow Ow Ow' and grabbing at their teeth (if they're biting) may not necessarily be 'best' way to stop a cat from being too rough, in your opinion, and it may not be the way *you* would choose to do it, but its hardly *abuse* (major snippage) Reminds me of the time when folks were about to call the authorities of Kili's husband for allowing Kili's cats outside and calling one of them a 'retard'. No, its not the relentlessly-spoiled-and-woshipped-on-a-pedestal treatment "we" give "our cats", but was it actual *abuse*? Not even close. Yowie (anti-pitchfork since '98) Hot Button! There was a big difference with Kili's cats. She was a very dear personal friend of mine, not just on this group but in real life. I know for a fact she did NOT want those cats to be outdoor cats. She told me on the phone she was worried about what would happen to them after she died. She went to great lengths to make them indoor only cats and sacrificed a lot of personal comforts to ensure they had the best care and treatment. Remember all the trouble she went through to get rid of the ringworms Ms. Pua had? And yet the moment she died her husband put all the cats outside. Pretty much left them to fend for themselves. Now I see him posting to rec.food.cooking and he mentions his "one cat". Who knows what happened to the rest of her precious cats. So PLEASE don't compare this to that. It's not remotely the same issue. I don't see why you need to grab a kitten's teeth if they're biting you or playing too rough. IMHO Lori's video demonstrated an excellent and effective way to deal with the problem. Jill |
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