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#21
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-L. wrote: WHY does there "need" to be a separation of church and state, again? That is found nowhere in the Constitution and in fact, the 1st Amendment to that document guarantees all of us the Freedom OF Religion, not the freedom FROM religion. *Oh Sweet Cream of Jesus over Noodles! Freedom OF religion includes freedom FROM religion. Atheism is a valid belief system that differs from Christianity ONLY because it rejects one more religion than Christianity does (that *being* Christianity!) Perhaps a history lesson is in store for you. The first amendment guarantees individuals the right to practice their religion. It does not guarantee that you will never be exposed to other individuals practicing their religion. If you want to be an atheist, I have no problem with that. There's much about the natural world, that you cannot explain, but that's a whole other subject! There is nothing wrong with prayer in schools, it doesn't cause anybody bodily harm. There is *everything* wrong with prayer in public schools. I pay for those schools. Keep your Bible out of my school. besides, I can give you oodles of examples of people being harmed by religion. If you want to pray, do it in your private school. As long as public dollars are funding the failing government schools, then there will be things allowed that not EVERYBODY will agree with. You still haven't listed one, single thing that is bad about prayer in school...other than you don't like it. That's not good enough. As for people being harmed by religion, I'll bet you can only point to extreme, religious zealots. The world is full of whackjobs, you know. (Some of whom frequent this ng) There is nothing wrong with mentioning Christmas in public, there is nothing wrong with displaying a menorah or a nativity scene in public on public property. It's called PUBLIC property for a reason. Yep. And so you have to give the same rights to the Satanists, the KKK and anyone else who wants to display anything they deem a religious artifact. Live sacrifice of animals - yep, that has to be allowed as well. The "taking" a virgin by a religious leader - yep, that has to be allwed as well. Go ahead and put up your cross and I can guarantee you will start a squaking when the Satanists start up their public display. You can't just "make up" your own religion. And you can't break existing laws (animal torture, murder, etc.) to justify your bad behavior. Next? There are a lot more Christians than there are people who worship Satan, and THANK GOD for that...wouldn't you agree?! (a little mention to the Almighty, there....just to tick you off and demonstrate the freedoms that I have in this country) And no, that didn't harm anybody! |
#22
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-L. wrote: Cat Protector wrote: snip If a candidate tells me they are a cat lover but yet are weak on the issues then I don't think that it would be enough to get my vote. Particularly with something as serious as prayer in schools. -L. Oooh yeah....that's a real serious issue. tongue firmly in cheek Don't you think there are more serious issues facing us right now? Get a grip! |
#23
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kitkat wrote: gaubster2 wrote: For whatever reason, the left likes to discriminate against Christianity, but not any other religion. Your post above makes it clear that you have a problem with Christianity, specifically. Do you have a problem with people of other faiths, or are you just intolerant in that one area? my 2 cents? if more christians practiced true christianity as JC envisioned it...the world would be a much better place. of course, the same goes for a fanatic of any religion. but really, IMO, i have much less of a problem with the actual religion than I do with those who claim to practice it. pam I can't disagree with you there. People are fallable, for sure. My mother is one of those people who pushes her religious views on everybody and it turns people off...me, included. That being said, I don't have a problem with religion in general and I just can't get all up in arms if somebody gives a brief benediction at a football game or a high school graduation. I really don't see the harm, other than the intolerant ones among us think that they shouldn't be offended, ever. Those people need to grow up! |
#24
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gaubster2 wrote:
kitkat wrote: gaubster2 wrote: For whatever reason, the left likes to discriminate against Christianity, but not any other religion. Your post above makes it clear that you have a problem with Christianity, specifically. Do you have a problem with people of other faiths, or are you just intolerant in that one area? my 2 cents? if more christians practiced true christianity as JC envisioned it...the world would be a much better place. of course, the same goes for a fanatic of any religion. but really, IMO, i have much less of a problem with the actual religion than I do with those who claim to practice it. pam I can't disagree with you there. People are fallable, for sure. My mother is one of those people who pushes her religious views on everybody and it turns people off...me, included. That being said, I don't have a problem with religion in general and I just can't get all up in arms if somebody gives a brief benediction at a football game or a high school graduation. I really don't see the harm, other than the intolerant ones among us think that they shouldn't be offended, ever. Those people need to grow up! I'll just add this: I am a school teacher and I feel that a "benediction" has no place at a football game or a graduation. It has nothing to do with what is happening and is likely to make some of our young people uncomfortable. I would not be ANY more comfortable if a rabbi came to my school and we prayed in hebrew. (I am Jewish.) It has nothing to do with a specific religion...it just has no place in our schools. You say those people need to grow up...and you are right...at least in terms of schools. Those *are* KIDS we are teaching...and they are very impressionable...and religion should be saved for homelife. And if homelife dictates religion should be part of school life...then that school should be a parochial one. I do not think I am intolerant. I think I am respectful of the MANY kinds of people I am surrounded by on a given day. Pam |
#25
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gaubster2 wrote:
As long as public dollars are funding the failing government schools, then there will be things allowed that not EVERYBODY will agree with. You still haven't listed one, single thing that is bad about prayer in school...other than you don't like it. That's not good enough. As for people being harmed by religion, I'll bet you can only point to extreme, religious zealots. The world is full of whackjobs, you know. (Some of whom frequent this ng) I'll give you a reason why prayer doesn't belong in school. It has nothing TO DO with school. And that being said, if a students wishes to pray in school...he or she can do so quietly without interrupting the flow of what is going on there in the first place...EDUCATION. I don't think "prayer is bad" in school...I just don't think it BELONGS there. We are trying to teach our children that there is a time and place for everything. Practicing religion is one of those things. You can't just "make up" your own religion. And you can't break existing laws (animal torture, murder, etc.) to justify your bad behavior. Next? There are a lot more Christians than there are people who worship Satan, and THANK GOD for that...wouldn't you agree?! (a little mention to the Almighty, there....just to tick you off and demonstrate the freedoms that I have in this country) And no, that didn't harm anybody! Well at SOME point...all religions were "made up"...weren't they? And if you cant break existing laws in the name of your religion...what do the crazy killers of abortion doctors use as their excuse?! Just *one* example...in a sea of examples... Most people won't get ticked off if you mention God. It is, however, a completely different thing if you make an entire class of children stop in the midst of their SCHOOL DAY to recognize a god they may or MAY NOT believe in. Pam |
#26
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"kitkat" wrote in message . com... gaubster2 wrote: As long as public dollars are funding the failing government schools, then there will be things allowed that not EVERYBODY will agree with. You still haven't listed one, single thing that is bad about prayer in school...other than you don't like it. That's not good enough. As for people being harmed by religion, I'll bet you can only point to extreme, religious zealots. The world is full of whackjobs, you know. (Some of whom frequent this ng) I'll give you a reason why prayer doesn't belong in school. It has nothing TO DO with school. And that being said, if a students wishes to pray in school...he or she can do so quietly without interrupting the flow of what is going on there in the first place...EDUCATION. I don't think "prayer is bad" in school...I just don't think it BELONGS there. We are trying to teach our children that there is a time and place for everything. Practicing religion is one of those things. Heh, exactly what I was thinking. I didn't become a teacher to promote the practice of religion. In Social Studies, while teaching about world communities, I can & should teach the existence of various religions - on a basic level, considering I teach 7 - 9 yr. olds, but that's it. Practicing any given religion w/ the kids is up to the children's parents & guardians. Cathy You can't just "make up" your own religion. And you can't break existing laws (animal torture, murder, etc.) to justify your bad behavior. Next? There are a lot more Christians than there are people who worship Satan, and THANK GOD for that...wouldn't you agree?! (a little mention to the Almighty, there....just to tick you off and demonstrate the freedoms that I have in this country) And no, that didn't harm anybody! Well at SOME point...all religions were "made up"...weren't they? And if you cant break existing laws in the name of your religion...what do the crazy killers of abortion doctors use as their excuse?! Just *one* example...in a sea of examples... Most people won't get ticked off if you mention God. It is, however, a completely different thing if you make an entire class of children stop in the midst of their SCHOOL DAY to recognize a god they may or MAY NOT believe in. Pam |
#27
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Keeping telling yourself I'm a liar, if it helps you deal with what a
pathetic LOSER you are, LOL. But the truth is you're once again telling people your way is the only way. Get a grip. Your belief system, and religion, is not the only one. This world is made up of many different kinds of people (unfortunately you're one of them). Religion does not belong in the government or in public schools. |
#28
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Cathy Friedmann wrote: "gaubster2" wrote in message ps.com... WHY does there "need" to be a separation of church and state, again? That is found nowhere in the Constitution and in fact, the 1st Amendment to that document guarantees all of us the Freedom OF Religion, not the freedom FROM religion. There is nothing wrong with prayer in schools, it doesn't cause anybody bodily harm. What? You have to physically harm a person in order for any harm to be done?? What kind of harm are you referencing? Property rights? I have no problem with a moment of silence in public school so the kids can silently pray, meditate, collect their thoughts, or do nothing. I have a BIG problem with an out-loud prayer or the teacher saying "let's pray". Yep & yep. Cathy Yeah, because that is SOOOOOOOO dangerous! Not. |
#29
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gaubster2 wrote:
Yeah, because that is SOOOOOOOO dangerous! Not. Just because something isnt inherently dangerous does NOT mean that it is appropriate. Pam |
#30
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"gaubster2" wrote in message oups.com... Cathy Friedmann wrote: "gaubster2" wrote in message ps.com... WHY does there "need" to be a separation of church and state, again? That is found nowhere in the Constitution and in fact, the 1st Amendment to that document guarantees all of us the Freedom OF Religion, not the freedom FROM religion. There is nothing wrong with prayer in schools, it doesn't cause anybody bodily harm. What? You have to physically harm a person in order for any harm to be done?? What kind of harm are you referencing? Property rights? You think the only way to harm a person is via physical harm? (Hint: you used the word "bodily".) You don't think there's anything wrong w/ promoting prayer in the public schools because it would coincide with *your* personal beliefs. Nevermind the fact that it wouldn't coincide with many *other* people's beliefs. If it's good enough for you, it's good enough for all? (That's a rhetorical question, & the answer is nope.) It appears that you aren't considering the fact that the public is extremely diverse in its beliefs, & their tax dollars are funding the public schools. Not only is not everyone religious, but of those who are religious, not everyone is Christian (gasp!). Nevermind the fact that public schools are secular places, not religious ones. If you want prayer in school, & if you prefer that prayer to be Christian oriented, then feel free to support private Christian schools. No problem there. I have no problem with a moment of silence in public school so the kids can silently pray, meditate, collect their thoughts, or do nothing. I have a BIG problem with an out-loud prayer or the teacher saying "let's pray". Yep & yep. Cathy Yeah, because that is SOOOOOOOO dangerous! Not. See above. The public schools are secular. Secular, not religious. Separation of Church & State, you know?? Cathy |
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