Rescued from Shelter

Philip wrote:
I have made it clear the people grade
tuna is the only food Conan will eat at this
time.

And, again, I made it clear that that is not what I'm addressing.

You also made it clear you plan on feeding him a diet of fish cat food
as a staple diet. That's what I'm talking about.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

wrote in message
...
Philip wrote:
I have made it clear the people grade
tuna is the only food Conan will eat at this
time.

And, again, I made it clear that that is not what I'm addressing.

You also made it clear you plan on feeding him a diet of fish cat food
as a staple diet. That's what I'm talking about.

Megan

NEVER said verbatim nor implied such. You are making this up, Megan. If
you are so compelled, please copy/paste the post where such was said by me.
Thank you.

Please Megan ... drink more DECAFF

Philip wrote:
NEVER said verbatim nor implied such.

Yes, you did. You started with this:

"Fish is to his liking so the next *cat* *food* he gets will be a tuna
flavor."

You followed that up with a defense of feeding an all fish diet and used
feral cats eating such a diet as an example (albeit a poor one.)
The fact that several other posters in this thread also warned you
against feeding a cat a fish based food as a staple diet is further
proof that you did indeed imply that that was your intent.


Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

wrote in message
...
Philip wrote:
NEVER said verbatim nor implied such.

Yes, you did. You started with this:

"Fish is to his liking so the next *cat* *food* he gets will be a tuna
flavor."

There you have it. "The next cat food will be tuna FLAVOR." This in no
way states or implies *permanence* beyond the current can or Conan's
appeptite for raw tuna while he is ill.

You followed that up with a defense of feeding an all fish diet and used
feral cats eating such a diet as an example (albeit a poor one.)
snip
Megan

Never said or implied that either. I did ask the reader to identify the
most probable suppliment to those sea side ferals' diet of mice .... which
would be fish. RAW FISH parts scavenged from trash cans and unsold "cleaned"
fish left out for them by the fish markets. And those ferals lived quite
well on whatever they chose to consume which included .... raw fish.

Conan's force feeding drama continues ...

First off, let me say my wife is getting a little puzzled about all this
attention given to the new cat. Retirement looks for projects to spend time
on, really.

Yesterday, I acted on a suggestion made by a regular to this forum, to start
force feeding (that's such a provocative term) Conan with KMR kitten formula
with a syringe. This was a bit messy at first because I had not worked out
the sequence of maneuvers to get the stuff IN Conan. Each cat is a bit
different. I got about 30-40 ccs of formula into him that evening.

This morning, I got a call from my vet's office wanting a progress report.

"Conan slept all day yesterday and last night." "Very lethargic but for his
exposure to humidity during my morning shower." "I just got his medicines
syringed to him and about 50-60cc of KMR and about 30cc of water chaser."

"Who suggested KMR?"

"Was my idea."

"KMR is not sufficient nor balanced for an adult cat. Please visit the
office and purchase AD formula." (Mfgr Hills, each 5.5oz can costs only
$1.50). "Conan needs to get one can per day, minimum."

Well, ok. Back to force feeding "technique." On top of the washing
machine, Conan's head alongside my chest, thumb & index finger over bridge
of Conan's nose, gently squeeze open his mouth, pull his head up and back,
start squirting formula in mouth while (here's the trick) simultaneously
repositioning hand to underneath his throat. He keeps his own mouth open
and swallowing so long as formula is being squirted in at the rate he is
swallowing. Keep head alongside my chest. I can get the full 20cc syringe
load into him in a few seconds. (WHEW) 80cc for lunch!

On Wed 08 Jun 2005 06:02:38p, Philip wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
k.net):

Conan's force feeding drama continues ...

First off, let me say my wife is getting a little puzzled about
all this attention given to the new cat. Retirement looks for
projects to spend time on, really.

Yesterday, I acted on a suggestion made by a regular to this
forum, to start force feeding (that's such a provocative term)
Conan with KMR kitten formula with a syringe. This was a bit
messy at first because I had not worked out the sequence of
maneuvers to get the stuff IN Conan. Each cat is a bit
different. I got about 30-40 ccs of formula into him that
evening.

This morning, I got a call from my vet's office wanting a
progress report.

"Conan slept all day yesterday and last night." "Very lethargic
but for his exposure to humidity during my morning shower." "I
just got his medicines syringed to him and about 50-60cc of KMR
and about 30cc of water chaser."

"Who suggested KMR?"

"Was my idea."

"KMR is not sufficient nor balanced for an adult cat. Please
visit the office and purchase AD formula." (Mfgr Hills, each
5.5oz can costs only $1.50). "Conan needs to get one can per
day, minimum."

Well, ok. Back to force feeding "technique." On top of the
washing machine, Conan's head alongside my chest, thumb & index
finger over bridge of Conan's nose, gently squeeze open his
mouth, pull his head up and back, start squirting formula in
mouth while (here's the trick) simultaneously repositioning hand
to underneath his throat. He keeps his own mouth open and
swallowing so long as formula is being squirted in at the rate
he is swallowing. Keep head alongside my chest. I can get the
full 20cc syringe load into him in a few seconds. (WHEW) 80cc
for lunch!

It sounds like you have a conscientious vet who is concerned. FTR,
I don't think I saw any suggestions to give him straight KMR, but
to mix it with food like you were doing with the milk. At any rate,
it just shows that you can't take Usenet suggestions at either face
value or interpretted, and to run it by the vet. I'm sorry if that
was my suggestion because I know I said KMR.

Also, WRT your other reply to my comment about not getting another
cat, I realize you're doing a lot for Conan and its probably stress
talking (or not; can't tell any more!) so I guess I have to
apologize for that comment too. It's a good sign that he's keeping
the food down that you "hand feed" him. That's what I like to call
"force feeding". Sounds a little gentler. I'll bet you'll be glad
when the week is up.

Hang in there.

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

Philip wrote:
(WHEW) 80cc for lunch!


That's awesome!
That cat is going to luuuv him some Philip.

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
On Wed 08 Jun 2005 06:02:38p, Philip wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
k.net):

Conan's force feeding drama continues ...

First off, let me say my wife is getting a little puzzled about
all this attention given to the new cat. Retirement looks for
projects to spend time on, really.

Yesterday, I acted on a suggestion made by a regular to this
forum, to start force feeding (that's such a provocative term)
Conan with KMR kitten formula with a syringe. This was a bit
messy at first because I had not worked out the sequence of
maneuvers to get the stuff IN Conan. Each cat is a bit
different. I got about 30-40 ccs of formula into him that
evening.

This morning, I got a call from my vet's office wanting a
progress report.

"Conan slept all day yesterday and last night." "Very lethargic
but for his exposure to humidity during my morning shower." "I
just got his medicines syringed to him and about 50-60cc of KMR
and about 30cc of water chaser."

"Who suggested KMR?"

"Was my idea."

"KMR is not sufficient nor balanced for an adult cat. Please
visit the office and purchase AD formula." (Mfgr Hills, each
5.5oz can costs only $1.50). "Conan needs to get one can per
day, minimum."

Well, ok. Back to force feeding "technique." On top of the
washing machine, Conan's head alongside my chest, thumb & index
finger over bridge of Conan's nose, gently squeeze open his
mouth, pull his head up and back, start squirting formula in
mouth while (here's the trick) simultaneously repositioning hand
to underneath his throat. He keeps his own mouth open and
swallowing so long as formula is being squirted in at the rate
he is swallowing. Keep head alongside my chest. I can get the
full 20cc syringe load into him in a few seconds. (WHEW) 80cc
for lunch!


It sounds like you have a conscientious vet who is concerned. FTR.
I don't think I saw any suggestions to give him straight KMR, but
to mix it with food like you were doing with the milk. At any rate,
it just shows that you can't take Usenet suggestions at either face
value or interpretted, and to run it by the vet. I'm sorry if that
was my suggestion because I know I said KMR.

I did not say "Well, Cheryl in the Cat Behavior Forum told me to do it!" It
was afterall, my decision to ACT on the KMR idea which considering the
alternative of no nutrition was still a good decision. :^)

Also, WRT your other reply to my comment about not getting another
cat, I realize you're doing a lot for Conan and its probably stress
talking (or not; can't tell any more!) so I guess I have to
apologize for that comment too. It's a good sign that he's keeping
the food down that you "hand feed" him. That's what I like to call
"force feeding". Sounds a little gentler. I'll bet you'll be glad
when the week is up.

Hang in there.

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

My stress shows up here when I inject a line of seemingly inappropriate
levity into an otherwise somber, serious, heavy paragraph. Otherwise, watch
for the lashing tail. ;^)

Stress? Yes, a bit. I do need to see an improvement trend for this much
attention ... for the sake of all concerned in this house.

His sinuses are running while he sleeps. Today, Conan has sacked out in the
crouched position with his nose just over the edge of a table. There is now
a puddle of water on the floor below his nose. He will purr lightly but the
bubbly liquid is nasal.

There is a bit of difference between KMR and Hill's "A/D" formula. A/D has
liver, chicken, fish oils, taurine, and a wider variety of minerals than
KMR.

On Wed 08 Jun 2005 07:32:59p, Philip wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
ink.net):


My stress shows up here when I inject a line of seemingly
inappropriate levity into an otherwise somber, serious, heavy
paragraph. Otherwise, watch for the lashing tail. ;^)

Stress? Yes, a bit. I do need to see an improvement trend for
this much attention ... for the sake of all concerned in this
house.

His sinuses are running while he sleeps. Today, Conan has sacked
out in the crouched position with his nose just over the edge of
a table. There is now a puddle of water on the floor below his
nose. He will purr lightly but the bubbly liquid is nasal.

There is a bit of difference between KMR and Hill's "A/D"
formula. A/D has liver, chicken, fish oils, taurine, and a
wider variety of minerals than KMR.

Ok, new approach here (I'm really pulling for this cat!) Is the vet
you're seeing still the one that offered the "end to end"
examination within 72 hours of adoption? Have you been in touch
with the rescue groups vet? The one that vaccinated him? Of course
other than rabies, volunteers can do vaccinations themselves, so it
might not have been done by a vet, but there had to be a shelter or
clinic vet somewhere along the way that examined him before you
adopted him. What I'd do if I were you is contact that vet, let
them know just how serious this is (and it is serious!). I'm very
afraid with all the force feeding that he may develop an aversion
to food and make it that much harder to eat something on his own
even if he's feeling better. Let them know that you've read about
hepatic lipidosis and that sometimes the only thing that keeps them
nourished until they want to eat is a feeding (PEG) tube. I know
this sounds like more of a pain in the ass than you bargained for,
but to give you an example, my cat who is now deceased had to have
a feeding tube when he developed hepatic lipidosis due to anorexia
for whatever reason. I found these cat groups just barely before
this happened because I had a cat with megacolon who had to be put
down because he couldn't **** and the prognosis for recovery after
surgery to remove most of his colon wasn't good, and I knew NOTHING
about cats and their health issues because I'd never had a sick cat
before. When my Shadow quit eating I didn't notice - for various
reasons - and by the time I did notice, he had liver damage. He had
that feeding tube for 2 months, though he finally ate on his own
after 5 weeks.

OK, this got more long-winded than I intended. Point is, SOMETHING
made that cat not want to eat and the runny nose isn't helping. If
he is going to recover, he has to eat, and it has to be enough to
keep his body from trying to process body fat as food.

Oh, and AD isn't meant for long-term use, either. But it is packed
with calories and that means less has to be forced into him.


--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
On Wed 08 Jun 2005 07:32:59p, Philip wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
ink.net):


My stress shows up here when I inject a line of seemingly
inappropriate levity into an otherwise somber, serious, heavy
paragraph. Otherwise, watch for the lashing tail. ;^)

Stress? Yes, a bit. I do need to see an improvement trend for
this much attention ... for the sake of all concerned in this
house.

His sinuses are running while he sleeps. Today, Conan has sacked
out in the crouched position with his nose just over the edge of
a table. There is now a puddle of water on the floor below his
nose. He will purr lightly but the bubbly liquid is nasal.

There is a bit of difference between KMR and Hill's "A/D"
formula. A/D has liver, chicken, fish oils, taurine, and a
wider variety of minerals than KMR.

Ok, new approach here (I'm really pulling for this cat!)
(1) Is the vet
you're seeing still the one that offered the "end to end"
examination within 72 hours of adoption?
(2)Have you been in touch with the rescue groups vet?
The one that vaccinated him?
Of course
other than rabies, volunteers can do vaccinations themselves, so it
might not have been done by a vet, but there had to be a shelter or
clinic vet somewhere along the way that examined him before you
adopted him.
(3)What I'd do if I were you is contact that vet, let
them know just how serious this is (and it is serious!).
(4)I'm very
afraid with all the force feeding that he may develop an aversion
to food and make it that much harder to eat something on his own
even if he's feeling better. Let them know that you've read about
hepatic lipidosis and that sometimes the only thing that keeps them
nourished until they want to eat is a feeding (PEG) tube. I know
this sounds like more of a pain in the ass than you bargained for,
but to give you an example, my cat who is now deceased had to have
a feeding tube when he developed hepatic lipidosis due to anorexia
for whatever reason. I found these cat groups just barely before
this happened because I had a cat with megacolon who had to be put
down because he couldn't **** and the prognosis for recovery after
surgery to remove most of his colon wasn't good, and I knew NOTHING
about cats and their health issues because I'd never had a sick cat
before. When my Shadow quit eating I didn't notice - for various
reasons - and by the time I did notice, he had liver damage. He had
that feeding tube for 2 months, though he finally ate on his own
after 5 weeks.

OK, this got more long-winded than I intended. Point is, SOMETHING
made that cat not want to eat and the runny nose isn't helping. If
he is going to recover, he has to eat, and it has to be enough to
keep his body from trying to process body fat as food.

(5) Oh, and AD isn't meant for long-term use, either. But it is packed
with calories and that means less has to be forced into him.


--
Cheryl

After swearing on the Bible to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, Philip under cross examination by attorney Cheryl stated the
following:

1). The 72 hr free examination policy is from the shelter. This "first
free office visit" is to be performed by a vet of the adopting party's
choosing, provided the chosen vet is on the list of approved member vets.
Conan is still with the chosen veterinary.

2). What rescue vet? Conan was brought in by Animal Control. My adoption
was from the shelter direct, not a private adoption agency or organization.
The County maintains a DVM on site who gives rubber stamps as to sterility
and vaccinations. I do not know who ACTUALLY pumps the medicine into
animals. The shelter is the source for ALL vaccinations and statements of
known conditions revealed to me before adoption.

3). My attempt to get in touch with the shelter's DVM today was
unsuccessful. Will try again tomorrow.

4). Let us NOT be guided by your fears, rather by knowledge that has
appropriate application.

5). "Long term?" A week? A month? I have a line in the sand being next
Wednesday. If Conan is still in his current state at that time, then I
really need to let go.