PING Finns

Hey, Marina, Christine, and anyone else here who reads Finnish,

On one of my LiveJournal communities (called "What Was That Book?",
for people to post descriptions of books they once read, that they
can't remember the name of - great community, I've found long-lost
titles there myself), someone posted an entry in Finnish, in the
hope that someone there could read it and tell him/her the name of
the book. So far, he/she hasn't gotten an answer, so I thought I'd
post it here in case one of you is familiar with this book:

Nuortenkirja, jonka kuvittelisin lukeneeni yli 15 vuotta sitten. Juoni
oli jotakin ep?m??r?ist? ja nuortenkirjamaista, mutta yksi yksityiskohta
j?i kiusaamaan. P??henkil? v?isti kadulla ep?m??r?ist? jengi?/henkil??,
joka kuului mainittuun jengiin, ja sen nimi oli Loviisa kakkonen
ydinvoimalan reaktorin mukaan, "koska jengi oli yht? arvaamaton kuin
kakkosreaktori" tai vastaavaa. On siis hyvin mahdollista ett? kirja
sijoittui Loviisaan tai l?himaille.

Typer? yksityiskohta, mutta h?iritsee.

I sure hope I'm not posting anything totally bizarre or worse.

Joyce

wrote:
I sure hope I'm not posting anything totally bizarre or worse.


Heh, no, it's a legitimate question, but I'm afraid I don't know the
book they are talking about (I don't realy read books in Finnish, mostly
in English and some in Swedish).

--
Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.

kirjoitti:
Hey, Marina, Christine, and anyone else here who reads Finnish,

On one of my LiveJournal communities (called "What Was That Book?",
for people to post descriptions of books they once read, that they
can't remember the name of - great community, I've found long-lost
titles there myself), someone posted an entry in Finnish, in the
hope that someone there could read it and tell him/her the name of
the book. So far, he/she hasn't gotten an answer, so I thought I'd
post it here in case one of you is familiar with this book:

Nuortenkirja, jonka kuvittelisin lukeneeni yli 15 vuotta sitten. Juoni
oli jotakin ep?m??r?ist? ja nuortenkirjamaista, mutta yksi yksityiskohta
j?i kiusaamaan. P??henkil? v?isti kadulla ep?m??r?ist? jengi?/henkil??,
joka kuului mainittuun jengiin, ja sen nimi oli Loviisa kakkonen
ydinvoimalan reaktorin mukaan, "koska jengi oli yht? arvaamaton kuin
kakkosreaktori" tai vastaavaa. On siis hyvin mahdollista ett? kirja
sijoittui Loviisaan tai l?himaille.

Typer? yksityiskohta, mutta h?iritsee.

I sure hope I'm not posting anything totally bizarre or worse.

Joyce


Nothing bizarre, just a description of a book for juveniles, which I
have not read as it doesn't seem familiar.

Quick translation (a rough one, I'm not the official translator here...):
A juvenile book, which I estimate having read over 15 years ago.
The plot is something indistinct and "juvenile bookish", but one detail
still bothers me. The main character evaded a shady gang or person
belonging to the gang in the street, and the name was Loviisa two after
the nuclear reactor, "as the gang was as unpredictable as the number two
reactor" or something like that. Therefore it's very possible that the
story of the book is situated in Loviisa or nearby.

Stupid detail but it bothers.
End of translation

--
Christine in Laitila, Finland
christal63 (at) gmail (dot) com
photos: http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb108/christal63/
photos: http://community.webshots.com/user/chkr63

Christine K. kirjoitti:
kirjoitti:
Hey, Marina, Christine, and anyone else here who reads Finnish,

On one of my LiveJournal communities (called "What Was That Book?",
for people to post descriptions of books they once read, that they
can't remember the name of - great community, I've found long-lost
titles there myself), someone posted an entry in Finnish, in the
hope that someone there could read it and tell him/her the name of
the book. So far, he/she hasn't gotten an answer, so I thought I'd
post it here in case one of you is familiar with this book:

Nuortenkirja, jonka kuvittelisin lukeneeni yli 15 vuotta sitten. Juoni
oli jotakin ep?m??r?ist? ja nuortenkirjamaista, mutta yksi
yksityiskohta
j?i kiusaamaan. P??henkil? v?isti kadulla ep?m??r?ist? jengi?/henkil??,
joka kuului mainittuun jengiin, ja sen nimi oli Loviisa kakkonen
ydinvoimalan reaktorin mukaan, "koska jengi oli yht? arvaamaton kuin
kakkosreaktori" tai vastaavaa. On siis hyvin mahdollista ett? kirja
sijoittui Loviisaan tai l?himaille.

Typer? yksityiskohta, mutta h?iritsee.
I sure hope I'm not posting anything totally bizarre or worse.

Joyce


Nothing bizarre, just a description of a book for juveniles, which I
have not read as it doesn't seem familiar.

Quick translation (a rough one, I'm not the official translator here...):
A juvenile book, which I estimate having read over 15 years ago.
The plot is something indistinct and "juvenile bookish", but one detail
still bothers me. The main character evaded a shady gang or person
belonging to the gang in the street, and the name was Loviisa two after
the nuclear reactor, "as the gang was as unpredictable as the number two
reactor" or something like that. Therefore it's very possible that the
story of the book is situated in Loviisa or nearby.

Stupid detail but it bothers.
End of translation


Oh, and as Loviisa is a city in the South-West of Finland, I assume the
author of the book is also Finnish, which is probably why the question
was posted in Finnish in the first place.

And I do read in Finnish if the original book is in Finnish. I prefer to
read a book in the original language if I know the language well enough,
so it's Swedish, Finnish, German and English books for me. And I don't
mean to disrespect translators, but no matter how good the translator
is, it's still a choice of what word to use for the translation of this
or that, and the original may give a different feel for the text than
the translation.

--
Christine in Laitila, Finland
christal63 (at) gmail (dot) com
photos: http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb108/christal63/
photos: http://community.webshots.com/user/chkr63

"Christine K." wrote in message
...
Christine K. kirjoitti:
kirjoitti:
Hey, Marina, Christine, and anyone else here who reads Finnish,

On one of my LiveJournal communities (called "What Was That Book?",
for people to post descriptions of books they once read, that they
can't remember the name of - great community, I've found long-lost
titles there myself), someone posted an entry in Finnish, in the
hope that someone there could read it and tell him/her the name of
the book. So far, he/she hasn't gotten an answer, so I thought I'd
post it here in case one of you is familiar with this book:

Nuortenkirja, jonka kuvittelisin lukeneeni yli 15 vuotta sitten. Juoni
oli jotakin ep?m??r?ist? ja nuortenkirjamaista, mutta yksi
yksityiskohta
j?i kiusaamaan. P??henkil? v?isti kadulla ep?m??r?ist?
jengi?/henkil??,
joka kuului mainittuun jengiin, ja sen nimi oli Loviisa kakkonen
ydinvoimalan reaktorin mukaan, "koska jengi oli yht? arvaamaton kuin
kakkosreaktori" tai vastaavaa. On siis hyvin mahdollista ett? kirja
sijoittui Loviisaan tai l?himaille.

Typer? yksityiskohta, mutta h?iritsee.
I sure hope I'm not posting anything totally bizarre or worse.

Joyce


Nothing bizarre, just a description of a book for juveniles, which I have
not read as it doesn't seem familiar.

Quick translation (a rough one, I'm not the official translator here...):
A juvenile book, which I estimate having read over 15 years ago.
The plot is something indistinct and "juvenile bookish", but one detail
still bothers me. The main character evaded a shady gang or person
belonging to the gang in the street, and the name was Loviisa two after
the nuclear reactor, "as the gang was as unpredictable as the number two
reactor" or something like that. Therefore it's very possible that the
story of the book is situated in Loviisa or nearby.

Stupid detail but it bothers.
End of translation


Oh, and as Loviisa is a city in the South-West of Finland, I assume the
author of the book is also Finnish, which is probably why the question was
posted in Finnish in the first place.

And I do read in Finnish if the original book is in Finnish. I prefer to
read a book in the original language if I know the language well enough,
so it's Swedish, Finnish, German and English books for me. And I don't
mean to disrespect translators, but no matter how good the translator is,
it's still a choice of what word to use for the translation of this or
that, and the original may give a different feel for the text than the
translation.


I would think reading a book in the language as written would be similar to
wanting to read the book, rather than see the movie.

There is a special connection sometimes one feels with an author.

But what do I know. I have so much trouble learning the least little bit of
any other language. I really think its a form of learning disability. Same
for my father. He grew up in Canada and as an adult didn't speak or
understand any French at all. Said taking it in school was miserable for
him.

Jo

Christine K. wrote:

And I do read in Finnish if the original book is in Finnish. I prefer to
read a book in the original language if I know the language well enough,
so it's Swedish, Finnish, German and English books for me. And I don't
mean to disrespect translators, but no matter how good the translator
is, it's still a choice of what word to use for the translation of this
or that, and the original may give a different feel for the text than
the translation.

I agree. A translation, especially of creative writing, is an
interpretation of the work. The translator is, in a sense, writing
the book all over again, in the new language. Not by creating the
plot or the characters, but certainly by choosing the words in the
prose. That's up to the translator, and it's a very subjective thing.
It's an expression of the translator as much as of the original
writer, in some ways.

Although I would imagine that in different disciplines, there are
standard ways to translate some things. I've been working with
translations of the user manuals I write into various languages.
I don't know any of the languages well enough to know how good the
translations are. We have to have reviewers check over the translations
to make sure they're both technically and grammatically accurate.

As for the flow of the writing, ie, how natural it sounds, my guess
is that this doesn't get corrected. Most of our reviewers are not
writers, and they have a lot of other responsibilities, so if
something's grammatically correct, they'll let it go, I'm sure.
It takes a lot of time to fix that, and that's something I know
first-hand. As some of you might remember, I've had to review
translations of some manuals from Japanese into English, and even
when there's no actual *error*, the language just sounds so bizarre,
and not like anything a normal English speaker would ever say. Since
writing *is* my primary responsibility, I felt that I couldn't
allow the manuals to be shipped in that condition, so I spent a
lot of time rewriting large amounts of text that were correct but
just sounded ridiculous.

But even in less precise types of writing than technical manuals,
I would imagine there are some agreed-upon ways for certain types
of passages or phrases or even particular words to be translated.
Maybe the people who are actually translators can speak to this?

Joyce

wrote:

But even in less precise types of writing than technical manuals,
I would imagine there are some agreed-upon ways for certain types
of passages or phrases or even particular words to be translated.
Maybe the people who are actually translators can speak to this?


In translation of patents, I know that there are a lot of set phrases
that have to be translated the same way, always, but I don't translate
patents, so I don't know more about that. I can imagine that it's the
same with legal texts. I don't translate those either, so I'm pretty
free to translate as I please.

You are both right, a translation is always an interpretation of a text,
but if it's a factual text, the translator has to be very careful not to
change the meaning of the original. In fiction translation, the
translator has more freedom, and if it's a good translation, it can be a
work of art in its own right.

One reason why you are finding certain set phrases might be that that is
how they say it in Japanese, and so every Japanese person who translates
it into English (probably unknowingly) translates it the same way. I do
a lot of editing of English text written by Finnish-speakers, and I see
this a lot. It really helps to speak the language of the person who has
written the (bad) English. If someone has been 'writing Finnish with
English words' I can usually interpret what they meant to say, and
correct the text accordingly. But I've also had to edit some articles
written by Russians in English. Now, I don't speak Russian. Sometimes, I
just can't make head or tail of what they're trying to say. It looks to
me like just random words strung together. Unfortunately, my department
has an on-going cooperation with a Russian university, and they have an
annual conference, and I have to edit the conference articles before
they're printed. That is one of the jobs I dread the most.

--
Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.

Christine K. wrote:

And I do read in Finnish if the original book is in Finnish. I prefer to
read a book in the original language if I know the language well enough,
so it's Swedish, Finnish, German and English books for me. And I don't
mean to disrespect translators, but no matter how good the translator
is, it's still a choice of what word to use for the translation of this
or that, and the original may give a different feel for the text than
the translation.

The reason I don't read much in Finnish is that I'm just not that
interested in the books published here. I think maybe I was born in the
wrong country.

I don't read many translations, either, except some Latin American
writers (Mario Vargas Llhosa, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Isabel Allende),
because I don't speak Spanish.

--
Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.

"Marina" wrote in message
...
Christine K. wrote:

And I do read in Finnish if the original book is in Finnish. I prefer to
read a book in the original language if I know the language well enough,
so it's Swedish, Finnish, German and English books for me. And I don't
mean to disrespect translators, but no matter how good the translator is,
it's still a choice of what word to use for the translation of this or
that, and the original may give a different feel for the text than the
translation.

The reason I don't read much in Finnish is that I'm just not that
interested in the books published here. I think maybe I was born in the
wrong country.

I don't read many translations, either, except some Latin American writers
(Mario Vargas Llhosa, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Isabel Allende), because I
don't speak Spanish.

--
Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.

I am in awe of you, and others, who speak multiple languages! I know a
little Spanish, and a few words in several languages, but I'm not fluent in
any language except English.

Joy

"Marina" wrote in message
...
wrote:

But even in less precise types of writing than technical manuals,
I would imagine there are some agreed-upon ways for certain types
of passages or phrases or even particular words to be translated.
Maybe the people who are actually translators can speak to this?


In translation of patents, I know that there are a lot of set phrases that
have to be translated the same way, always, but I don't translate patents,
so I don't know more about that. I can imagine that it's the same with
legal texts. I don't translate those either, so I'm pretty free to
translate as I please.

You are both right, a translation is always an interpretation of a text,
but if it's a factual text, the translator has to be very careful not to
change the meaning of the original. In fiction translation, the translator
has more freedom, and if it's a good translation, it can be a work of art
in its own right.

One reason why you are finding certain set phrases might be that that is
how they say it in Japanese, and so every Japanese person who translates
it into English (probably unknowingly) translates it the same way. I do a
lot of editing of English text written by Finnish-speakers, and I see this
a lot. It really helps to speak the language of the person who has written
the (bad) English. If someone has been 'writing Finnish with English
words' I can usually interpret what they meant to say, and correct the
text accordingly. But I've also had to edit some articles written by
Russians in English. Now, I don't speak Russian. Sometimes, I just can't
make head or tail of what they're trying to say. It looks to me like just
random words strung together. Unfortunately, my department has an on-going
cooperation with a Russian university, and they have an annual conference,
and I have to edit the conference articles before they're printed. That is
one of the jobs I dread the most.

--
Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.

Although I don't speak a word of Finnish, I know exactly what you mean about
'writing Finnish with English words'. I have a home-based word processing
business. One of my clients is Iranian, and he often 'writes Persian with
English words'. Most of the time I can figure out what he means, but
sometimes I have to get him to explain it to me in different words.

Joy