Aaagh, I can't make a decision

Yowie wrote:

For what its worth, Joyce, I can't possibly imagine you doing anything
other than the very best you can possibly do for your cats.

I'm so so sorry you have to make the decision, its heartbreaking even
when you know thats its 110% the right decision to make.

Except now, I'm wracked with indecision. I've had Smudge with me in
the computer room for several hours, and, I don't know, it's pretty
hard to believe she could be that close to death. She looks ill, that's
true - she's moving slowly and her personality is pretty subdued. But
she really likes the crunchies I put down and she keeps going back
and eating them. All told, she hasn't made a big dent in the bowl, but
she's nibbled at them quite a few times. She's also drinking water,
which my neighbor said she wasn't doing. Maybe he just didn't see her
drink.

Now I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion. I was thinking
that I could get the pictures from the ultrasound and bring Smudge in
to a different vet and show them the pictures - maybe they'd interpret
them differently? The woman who read the results said there's a tumor
"perforating", which I guess means it's starting to poke through the
intestinal wall? She also saw many little growths throughout Smudge's
abdomen. So I'm not doubting she has cancer. I'm just not sure she has
to be euthanized right now. What if I just let her be, and when the time
comes, she'll let me know? Is that a cruel thing to do? I'd be risking
her having a rupture - but then again, that's only what this one vet
told me - a vet I had never met before today. She certainly seemed
competent and she was very nice, but even nice, competent vets can be
wrong.

So I'm mostly playing devil's advocate with myself, since earlier I
was presenting the opposite argument, the one in favor of euthanizing
right away. I just want to look at it from various angles before I
make an irreversible decision.

So for the moment, I'm thinking I won't take her tomorrow night, unless
she takes a sudden turn for the worse. I need some time to think about
what's the right thing to do, and talk it over. The idea that I have
to decide *really fast* is making my head spin. Well, that and the
fact that it's 3:40 in the morning and I really should have gone to
bed hours ago!

If anyone has any thoughts, information, suggestions, etc, I'd really
like to hear from you. Cheryl - I'm sorry I got defensive before. I wish
I could promise I won't get defensive again, but the truth is, I'm pretty
on edge. I'll try not to, though!

Thanks,
Joyce

--
"Bacteria, with a few more bells and whistles."
-- Bonnie Bassler, describing human beings

On Apr 6, 11:50*am, wrote:
So for the moment, I'm thinking I won't take her tomorrow night, unless
she takes a sudden turn for the worse. I need some time to think about
what's the right thing to do, and talk it

Trouble is it's a hard decision any way you look at it- sending purrs
for you and Smudge

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 12:02:44 +0100, Jack Campin
wrote:

Except now, I'm wracked with indecision. I've had Smudge with me in
the computer room for several hours, and, I don't know, it's pretty
hard to believe she could be that close to death. She looks ill, that's
true - she's moving slowly and her personality is pretty subdued. But
she really likes the crunchies I put down and she keeps going back
and eating them. All told, she hasn't made a big dent in the bowl, but
she's nibbled at them quite a few times. She's also drinking water,
which my neighbor said she wasn't doing. Maybe he just didn't see her
drink.
Now I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion. I was thinking
that I could get the pictures from the ultrasound and bring Smudge in
to a different vet and show them the pictures - maybe they'd interpret
them differently? The woman who read the results said there's a tumor
"perforating", which I guess means it's starting to poke through the
intestinal wall? She also saw many little growths throughout Smudge's
abdomen. So I'm not doubting she has cancer. I'm just not sure she has
to be euthanized right now.

If you can get a second opinion done quickly, fine. But remember
Catnipped's description of what perforated bowel and peritonitis
feels like. I wouldn't risk it if I were in your position.

Just make you decision based on what is best for the cat and not on
how YOU feel which it sounds like you are doing. How would you feel
if something happened and Smudge died a painfull death?!?!? Would you
feel better then?? If you do not trust the vets opinion why do you go
to him / her??

On Apr 6, 6:50*am, wrote:
Yowie wrote:

* For what its worth, Joyce, I can't possibly imagine you doing anything
* other than the very best you can possibly do for your cats.

* I'm so so sorry you have to make the decision, its heartbreaking even
* when you know thats its 110% the right decision to make.

Except now, I'm wracked with indecision. I've had Smudge with me in
the computer room for several hours, and, I don't know, it's pretty
hard to believe she could be that close to death. She looks ill, that's
true - she's moving slowly and her personality is pretty subdued. But
she really likes the crunchies I put down and she keeps going back
and eating them. All told, she hasn't made a big dent in the bowl, but
she's nibbled at them quite a few times. She's also drinking water,
which my neighbor said she wasn't doing. Maybe he just didn't see her
drink.

Now I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion. I was thinking
that I could get the pictures from the ultrasound and bring Smudge in
to a different vet and show them the pictures - maybe they'd interpret
them differently? The woman who read the results said there's a tumor
"perforating", which I guess means it's starting to poke through the
intestinal wall? She also saw many little growths throughout Smudge's
abdomen. So I'm not doubting she has cancer. I'm just not sure she has
to be euthanized right now. What if I just let her be, and when the time
comes, she'll let me know? Is that a cruel thing to do? I'd be risking
her having a rupture - but then again, that's only what this one vet
told me - a vet I had never met before today. She certainly seemed
competent and she was very nice, but even nice, competent vets can be
wrong.

So I'm mostly playing devil's advocate with myself, since earlier I
was presenting the opposite argument, the one in favor of euthanizing
right away. I just want to look at it from various angles before I
make an irreversible decision.

So for the moment, I'm thinking I won't take her tomorrow night, unless
she takes a sudden turn for the worse. I need some time to think about
what's the right thing to do, and talk it over. The idea that I have
to decide *really fast* is making my head spin. Well, that and the
fact that it's 3:40 in the morning and I really should have gone to
bed hours ago!

If anyone has any thoughts, information, suggestions, etc, I'd really
like to hear from you. Cheryl - I'm sorry I got defensive before. I wish
I could promise I won't get defensive again, but the truth is, I'm pretty
on edge. I'll try not to, though!

Thanks,
Joyce

--
"Bacteria, with a few more bells and whistles."
* * * * * * * * * * * * -- Bonnie Bassler, describing human beings

Hi Joyce,

My criteria for the last "gift" is their pain - are they in any pain?
My Tanglefoot (RB) had lymphosarcoma in his intestines, and our vet
told us that he wasn't in any pain, so we took him home. He died 3
days later, while laying on his daddy's lap. We took turns holding him
his last day, so he wouldn't die alone. If he had been in pain, he
wouldn't have left the vets.

{{{{Hugs}}}} and purrs to you and Smudge.

Patti

wrote in message ...

Yowie wrote:

For what its worth, Joyce, I can't possibly imagine you doing anything
other than the very best you can possibly do for your cats.

I'm so so sorry you have to make the decision, its heartbreaking even
when you know thats its 110% the right decision to make.

Except now, I'm wracked with indecision. I've had Smudge with me in
the computer room for several hours, and, I don't know, it's pretty
hard to believe she could be that close to death. She looks ill, that's
true - she's moving slowly and her personality is pretty subdued. But
she really likes the crunchies I put down and she keeps going back
and eating them. All told, she hasn't made a big dent in the bowl, but
she's nibbled at them quite a few times. She's also drinking water,
which my neighbor said she wasn't doing. Maybe he just didn't see her
drink.

Now I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion. I was thinking
that I could get the pictures from the ultrasound and bring Smudge in
to a different vet and show them the pictures - maybe they'd interpret
them differently? The woman who read the results said there's a tumor
"perforating", which I guess means it's starting to poke through the
intestinal wall? She also saw many little growths throughout Smudge's
abdomen. So I'm not doubting she has cancer. I'm just not sure she has
to be euthanized right now. What if I just let her be, and when the time
comes, she'll let me know? Is that a cruel thing to do? I'd be risking
her having a rupture - but then again, that's only what this one vet
told me - a vet I had never met before today. She certainly seemed
competent and she was very nice, but even nice, competent vets can be
wrong.

So I'm mostly playing devil's advocate with myself, since earlier I
was presenting the opposite argument, the one in favor of euthanizing
right away. I just want to look at it from various angles before I
make an irreversible decision.

So for the moment, I'm thinking I won't take her tomorrow night, unless
she takes a sudden turn for the worse. I need some time to think about
what's the right thing to do, and talk it over. The idea that I have
to decide *really fast* is making my head spin. Well, that and the
fact that it's 3:40 in the morning and I really should have gone to
bed hours ago!

If anyone has any thoughts, information, suggestions, etc, I'd really
like to hear from you. Cheryl - I'm sorry I got defensive before. I wish
I could promise I won't get defensive again, but the truth is, I'm pretty
on edge. I'll try not to, though!

-----

Joyce, when I had to put Happy down (my Basset Hound) last November, my TED
told me this on the phone. "It's not just about the quality of your dog's
life, but yours too." I told him that my quality had nothing to do with it,
but he reminded me that animals can sense things. Happy would go out in the
back yard and run around like he was fine, but other than that, he would
come in and do nothing but drink gallons of water. He was exhausted b/c he
couldn't get any good rest. His thirst had taken over. So the illness
(Cushing's Disease) was taking over the quality of his life... and mine
too, when I thought about it. And, of course, the final thoughts and
reasoning was that he wasn't going to get any better. Yes, I could prolong
his life... but it would lack the quality that my TED was talking about.

I'm crying while I write this. I miss Happy as if I lost him yesterday.
NOTHING about any of this will make the end any easier... just remember
about the quality of life.

Soothing hugs,

·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
Laurie
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸ ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~*

All that I am or hope to be, I owe to my angel mother.
~Abraham Lincoln


Thanks,
Joyce

--
"Bacteria, with a few more bells and whistles."
-- Bonnie Bassler, describing human beings

On 06 Apr 2011 10:50:53 GMT, wrote:

So I'm mostly playing devil's advocate with myself, since earlier I
was presenting the opposite argument, the one in favor of euthanizing
right away. I just want to look at it from various angles before I
make an irreversible decision.

So for the moment, I'm thinking I won't take her tomorrow night, unless
she takes a sudden turn for the worse. I need some time to think about
what's the right thing to do, and talk it over. The idea that I have
to decide *really fast* is making my head spin. Well, that and the
fact that it's 3:40 in the morning and I really should have gone to
bed hours ago!

If anyone has any thoughts, information, suggestions, etc, I'd really
like to hear from you. Cheryl - I'm sorry I got defensive before. I wish
I could promise I won't get defensive again, but the truth is, I'm pretty
on edge. I'll try not to, though!

It's not an easy decision to make... it's probably the hardest thing
you'll ever have to face. But is Smudge suffering? Would dragging her
off to a strange vet for a second opinion gain anything? Or would it
just give her a miserable day at the end of her life? If it was YOU
with incurable cancer, what would YOU want?

(hugs and prayers for you both...)

On Apr 6, 11:50*am, wrote:
Yowie wrote:

* For what its worth, Joyce, I can't possibly imagine you doing anything
* other than the very best you can possibly do for your cats.

* I'm so so sorry you have to make the decision, its heartbreaking even
* when you know thats its 110% the right decision to make.

Except now, I'm wracked with indecision. I've had Smudge with me in
the computer room for several hours, and, I don't know, it's pretty
hard to believe she could be that close to death. She looks ill, that's
true - she's moving slowly and her personality is pretty subdued. But
she really likes the crunchies I put down and she keeps going back
and eating them. All told, she hasn't made a big dent in the bowl, but
she's nibbled at them quite a few times. She's also drinking water,
which my neighbor said she wasn't doing. Maybe he just didn't see her
drink.

Now I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion. I was thinking
that I could get the pictures from the ultrasound and bring Smudge in
to a different vet and show them the pictures - maybe they'd interpret
them differently? The woman who read the results said there's a tumor
"perforating", which I guess means it's starting to poke through the
intestinal wall? She also saw many little growths throughout Smudge's
abdomen. So I'm not doubting she has cancer. I'm just not sure she has
to be euthanized right now. What if I just let her be, and when the time
comes, she'll let me know? Is that a cruel thing to do? I'd be risking
her having a rupture - but then again, that's only what this one vet
told me - a vet I had never met before today. She certainly seemed
competent and she was very nice, but even nice, competent vets can be
wrong.

So I'm mostly playing devil's advocate with myself, since earlier I
was presenting the opposite argument, the one in favor of euthanizing
right away. I just want to look at it from various angles before I
make an irreversible decision.

So for the moment, I'm thinking I won't take her tomorrow night, unless
she takes a sudden turn for the worse. I need some time to think about
what's the right thing to do, and talk it over. The idea that I have
to decide *really fast* is making my head spin. Well, that and the
fact that it's 3:40 in the morning and I really should have gone to
bed hours ago!

If anyone has any thoughts, information, suggestions, etc, I'd really
like to hear from you. Cheryl - I'm sorry I got defensive before. I wish
I could promise I won't get defensive again, but the truth is, I'm pretty
on edge. I'll try not to, though!

Thanks,
Joyce

--
"Bacteria, with a few more bells and whistles."
* * * * * * * * * * * * -- Bonnie Bassler, describing human beings

My thoughts Joyce, but of course, your decision.

1) Whether Smudge goes tomorrow or next week, she will know that she's
been loved.

2) A few last days will make a difference now, to you, while you're
trying to make your mind up, but after Smudge has gone, they won't
make that much difference. Gone is gone, as you well know.

3) Waiting until the situation is desperate is a very risky move. What
if it happens when you're asleep, or out of the house?

4) If I was unsure of the diagnosis and prognosis, I would definitely
seek a second opinion before euthanising.

Take care.

Jeanette

If anyone has any thoughts, information, suggestions, etc, I'd really
like to hear from you.

Joyce,
It's very understandable that you are having a hard time making a
decision. I think most of us have gone through this at one time or
another. However, in this instance I truly believe that waiting is
not the right thing to do. The ultrasound has told the story, and if
the intestine is at serious risk of being perforated as the vet says
and there is a lot of cancer showing up, to take the chance of waiting
could result in disaster (which happens usually in the middle of the
night or on the weekend.) Cats are survivors, and this is why they are
so good at hiding discomfort and pain. What Smudge is feeling is
probably 100 times worse than what she is showing and the fact that
she is still eating doesn't mean a whole lot. Contrary to the popular
belief, our pets don't necessarily "let us know when it's time" and
that belief has sometimes cost many pets unnecessary pain and
suffering.

I lost two cats 3 weeks apart in January. One had squamous cell
carcinoma and the treatment we tried had failed and it was going into
his brain. The whole time he had a great attitude and was eating like
a horse. I wanted him to live forever. However, he started to have
horrible diarrhea and the day he laid in it and didn't seem to be
bothered I knew that it was time. He still ate like a horse and had a
good attitude, but I could tell things were going south. To keep him
going and continually bath him would have stripped him of his dignity
and I would have been doing it for me, not him. We spent the day
together and I gave him any treat he wanted. The vet came to my home
and after he gave him the first shot (to sedate him) I gave him his
most favorite treat ever. He literally fell asleep doing one of his
favorite things- licking Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream from a spoon. He
the got the final shot and passed immediately. It was a decision I
didn't want to make, but when it came down to keeping him from
suffering and maintaining his dignity, I had to put everything I felt
aside and make the decision based solely on *him.*

* It may have been the liquor talking, but
wrote:

Yowie wrote:

For what its worth, Joyce, I can't possibly imagine you doing anything
other than the very best you can possibly do for your cats.

I'm so so sorry you have to make the decision, its heartbreaking even
when you know thats its 110% the right decision to make.

Except now, I'm wracked with indecision. I've had Smudge with me in
the computer room for several hours, and, I don't know, it's pretty
hard to believe she could be that close to death. She looks ill, that's
true - she's moving slowly and her personality is pretty subdued. But
she really likes the crunchies I put down and she keeps going back
and eating them. All told, she hasn't made a big dent in the bowl, but
she's nibbled at them quite a few times. She's also drinking water,
which my neighbor said she wasn't doing. Maybe he just didn't see her
drink.

Now I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion. I was thinking
that I could get the pictures from the ultrasound and bring Smudge in
to a different vet and show them the pictures - maybe they'd interpret
them differently? The woman who read the results said there's a tumor
"perforating", which I guess means it's starting to poke through the
intestinal wall? She also saw many little growths throughout Smudge's
abdomen. So I'm not doubting she has cancer. I'm just not sure she has
to be euthanized right now. What if I just let her be, and when the time
comes, she'll let me know? Is that a cruel thing to do? I'd be risking
her having a rupture - but then again, that's only what this one vet
told me - a vet I had never met before today. She certainly seemed
competent and she was very nice, but even nice, competent vets can be
wrong.

So I'm mostly playing devil's advocate with myself, since earlier I
was presenting the opposite argument, the one in favor of euthanizing
right away. I just want to look at it from various angles before I
make an irreversible decision.

So for the moment, I'm thinking I won't take her tomorrow night, unless
she takes a sudden turn for the worse. I need some time to think about
what's the right thing to do, and talk it over. The idea that I have
to decide *really fast* is making my head spin. Well, that and the
fact that it's 3:40 in the morning and I really should have gone to
bed hours ago!

If anyone has any thoughts, information, suggestions, etc, I'd really
like to hear from you. Cheryl - I'm sorry I got defensive before. I wish
I could promise I won't get defensive again, but the truth is, I'm pretty
on edge. I'll try not to, though!

Thanks,
Joyce

--
"Bacteria, with a few more bells and whistles."
-- Bonnie Bassler, describing human beings

Joyce, not an expert, but a perforated intestine is a bad way to go. The
decision is ultimately yours to make, but in my opinion, you should take the
doc's advice....

*R* *H*
--
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On 06/04/2011 13:50, wrote:


So for the moment, I'm thinking I won't take her tomorrow night, unless
she takes a sudden turn for the worse. I need some time to think about
what's the right thing to do, and talk it over. The idea that I have
to decide *really fast* is making my head spin. Well, that and the
fact that it's 3:40 in the morning and I really should have gone to
bed hours ago!

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. As if Smudge's illness
wasn't bad enough, now you have to go through these doubts. But it's
understandable. I'm afraid none of us can really help you. You know
Smudge the best, and you need to trust the vet. By all means, get
another opinion, if you can do it soon. I do wish you could have more
time with Smudge. Lots of purrs on the way for you in this difficult time.

--
Marina, Miranda and Caliban.
In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.