Concerned about Licky

Hi Joyce,
I forgot to add these links in my last post
http://www.fabcats.org/owners/flutd/info.html
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...tract_dis.html

I found the info very helpful.

Kim turned up in my garden in the summer of 2000 and I adopted her . the
first year was a nightmare as she had allergies and also the cystitis
problem. It went on for months and kept reoccuring.

The first symptoms i noticed then was her her acting "silly" and rushing
around like a kitten which is from the pain (not to be confused with the
Crazies as I call them ) She then peed on plastic bags and in the bath
which is cooling an helps the pain .
She was not totally blocked but her urethra became swollen and sore from
the straining. She had blood in her urine.

Later on I was more clued up and noticed that her wees became smaller, If
they were reduced to golf ball size , it was certain she had FIC again.

They dont really know the cause but if you read the links , they are
pretty certain that stress is a main contributor . A new cat in the garden
or a new pet and she would get FIC.

When you first go to the vet with this problem , they do standard
treatment of offering the special food and anti biotics as a matter of
course.
If this doesnt help then they may want to do tests to for a differential
diagnosis .

They did a ultra sound scan to check for bladder stones . It showed she had
tiny crystals but not enough to cause any problems . Its normal for most
cats to have some crystals in the bladder. If they drink enough water and
have wet food , they will pass out in the urine.

She also had urine tests to check for bacteria . In the case, she didn't
have a bacterial infection . Sometimes the cause may not be bacterial but
they may pick up a secondary infection perhaps from a catheter or from a
bladder stone .


Several months ago I bought him a Feliway collar, because the diffusers
are
only good if the cat is in the same room where it's plugged in. I don't
have
a very big apartment, but it does have 4 small rooms, so if I wanted him
to
have the benefits all the time, I'd have to buy 4 of them a month. And
just
one per month is pretty costly.


They are very expensive. I put one where Kim slept the most and it
definately helped. I would try one and you might find he prefers to sleep
near it .
I dont know how long the collars last . Is there a date on the package?



I don't think radiology was ever involved, but she (the vet) definitely
checked for blockage. Can blood in the urine be caused by inflammation,
or
does it always indicate an infection? Because if it does, then he's had
an infection forever. And yet he never seems ill. He has lots of energy,
is alert and often very affectionate, his appetite is very healthy, and
as
I said, I've never noticed him straining to pee. His main problem in life
is anxiety. I like the Feliway idea, thanks for reminding me.

Here's a link explaining the reasons for blood in the urine.
http://www.cat-world.com.au/hematuria-in-cats

It was pretty certain that Kim had FIC .
So I had to alway be on the alert.
No dried food whatsoever.
Always had Feliway plugged in.
Added a teaspoon of water ot her wet food .
Give a maintenance amount of Cystease.

Kim later had Chronic Kidney disease and was put to sleep in Novenber 2011.
I miss having a cat . I have three little dogs now but they say Home is
where your cat is so perhaps one day I will have one again.

I hope this info helps . Good luck !
Alison



--
Joyce

"Bastette" wrote in message ...

Christina Websell wrote:

Sorry that KFC's beloved has a poorly bladder and hope you find something
to
help him.
I have no advice to offer you as neither of mine ever had this problem.
You
are taking him to the vet's again, I know. BTW have you asked Megan?
that
might be worth it if she is still around.

I was hoping that MaryL might have some thoughts. She often has good ideas
about feline health and treatments. I haven't heard from Megan in a long
time.
I guess she goes by Catlady now?

Thanks,

Joyce

~~~~~~~
Hi Joyce,

I had not responded because I have not faced this problem for many years and
have not kept up with research. My opinion would still be to use good
quality no-grains cat food and not the prescription food sold by many vets.
I still use Wellness as my preferred diet for cats (mostly turkey, chicken,
and beef+chicken). It is especially important to avoid dry food. I had a
wonderful cat (my very first one!) many years ago that had continual issues
with bladder infections/interstitial cystitis. I was still in graduate
school at the time and was fortunate to have a vet who permitted me to make
monthly payments for my cat's surgery. I have forgotten the exact time now,
but I think it took a couple of years to pay it off. After I left graduate
school and moved to the town where I still live, my cat continued to have
constant bladder infections even though he received daily prescriptions.
Then I met a vet who had just returned from England where he had studied
that specific problem. He said that they had good results by using Vitamin
C instead of prescription medication. I asked how much, and he said 250mg
twice a day. I was amazed! Such a large amount for such a little cat, but
he pointed out that any excess would be excreted in the urine, and the
intention was to acidify the urine. So, I looked around to find the very
smallest 250mg tablets (small to make it easy for my cat to swallow). I
started him on that protocol, and he was on it for the rest of his life. He
lived for another 15 years, and he never had another bladder infection.
Incidentally, Vitamin C has been found to cause diarrhea in some cats, so
you should watch for that. Fortunately, that was never a problem for me.

MaryL

He said that they had good results by using Vitamin
C instead of prescription medication. I asked how much, and he said 250mg
twice a day. I was amazed! Such a large amount for such a little cat, but
he pointed out that any excess would be excreted in the urine, and the
intention was to acidify the urine. So, I looked around to find the very
smallest 250mg tablets (small to make it easy for my cat to swallow). I
started him on that protocol, and he was on it for the rest of his life. He
lived for another 15 years, and he never had another bladder infection.
Incidentally, Vitamin C has been found to cause diarrhea in some cats, so
you should watch for that. Fortunately, that was never a problem for me.

Vitamin C is sometimes used in similarly huge doses in humans, for
conditions like leaky gut syndrome. The usual protocol is to ramp
the dose up to the point where it's causing diarrhoea and then lower
it to just below the diarrhoea-inducing level. The same procedure
should work on a cat.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 http://www.campin.me.uk Twitter: JackCampin

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:08:02 -0500, MaryL wrote:

"Bastette" wrote in message ...

Christina Websell wrote:

Sorry that KFC's beloved has a poorly bladder and hope you find
something to help him.
I have no advice to offer you as neither of mine ever had this problem.
You are taking him to the vet's again, I know. BTW have you asked
Megan? that might be worth it if she is still around.

I was hoping that MaryL might have some thoughts. She often has good
ideas about feline health and treatments. I haven't heard from Megan in
a long time.
I guess she goes by Catlady now?

Thanks,

Joyce

~~~~~~~
Hi Joyce,

I had not responded because I have not faced this problem for many years
and have not kept up with research. My opinion would still be to use
good quality no-grains cat food and not the prescription food sold by
many vets. I still use Wellness as my preferred diet for cats (mostly
turkey, chicken, and beef+chicken). It is especially important to avoid
dry food. I had a wonderful cat (my very first one!) many years ago
that had continual issues with bladder infections/interstitial cystitis.
I was still in graduate school at the time and was fortunate to have a
vet who permitted me to make monthly payments for my cat's surgery. I
have forgotten the exact time now,
but I think it took a couple of years to pay it off. After I left
graduate school and moved to the town where I still live, my cat
continued to have constant bladder infections even though he received
daily prescriptions. Then I met a vet who had just returned from England
where he had studied that specific problem. He said that they had good
results by using Vitamin C instead of prescription medication. I asked
how much, and he said 250mg twice a day. I was amazed! Such a large
amount for such a little cat, but he pointed out that any excess would
be excreted in the urine, and the intention was to acidify the urine.
So, I looked around to find the very smallest 250mg tablets (small to
make it easy for my cat to swallow). I started him on that protocol,
and he was on it for the rest of his life. He lived for another 15
years, and he never had another bladder infection. Incidentally, Vitamin
C has been found to cause diarrhea in some cats, so you should watch for
that. Fortunately, that was never a problem for me.

MaryL

A very interesting reply. I am filing it. MLB

Jack Campin wrote:

I wish you both the best of luck.

Me too...

Thanks! It seems like for most people, if their cats get blood in the urine,
that means an infection. It's just hard for me to believe he's had the same
infection for ages, without it either getting better or worse. I'm going to
have to take him back - that's going to be fun! :-O

...but to me that doesn't look good. With no pain on peeing, bladder
cancer looks the most likely explanation.

For *years*? This has been an ongoing problem with him almost since I
adopted him in 2003. If he's had cancer this whole time, that's one very
unaggressive form of cancer.


Joyce

I wish you both the best of luck.
Me too...
Thanks! It seems like for most people, if their cats get blood in the urine,
that means an infection. It's just hard for me to believe he's had the same
infection for ages, without it either getting better or worse. I'm going to
have to take him back - that's going to be fun! :-O
...but to me that doesn't look good. With no pain on peeing, bladder
cancer looks the most likely explanation.
For *years*? This has been an ongoing problem with him almost since I
adopted him in 2003. If he's had cancer this whole time, that's one very
unaggressive form of cancer.

Okay, I thought you meant a few months.

Good luck getting it diagnosed and dealt with.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 http://www.campin.me.uk Twitter: JackCampin

Alison wrote:

Hi Joyce,
I forgot to add these links in my last post
http://www.fabcats.org/owners/flutd/info.html
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...tract_dis.html

I found the info very helpful.

Kim turned up in my garden in the summer of 2000 and I adopted her . the
first year was a nightmare as she had allergies and also the cystitis
problem. It went on for months and kept reoccuring.

The first symptoms i noticed then was her her acting "silly" and rushing
around like a kitten which is from the pain (not to be confused with the
Crazies as I call them ) She then peed on plastic bags and in the bath
which is cooling an helps the pain .
She was not totally blocked but her urethra became swollen and sore from
the straining. She had blood in her urine.

Later on I was more clued up and noticed that her wees became smaller, If
they were reduced to golf ball size , it was certain she had FIC again.

They dont really know the cause but if you read the links , they are
pretty certain that stress is a main contributor . A new cat in the garden
or a new pet and she would get FIC.

When you first go to the vet with this problem , they do standard
treatment of offering the special food and anti biotics as a matter of
course.
If this doesnt help then they may want to do tests to for a differential
diagnosis .

They did a ultra sound scan to check for bladder stones . It showed she had
tiny crystals but not enough to cause any problems . Its normal for most
cats to have some crystals in the bladder. If they drink enough water and
have wet food , they will pass out in the urine.

She also had urine tests to check for bacteria . In the case, she didn't
have a bacterial infection . Sometimes the cause may not be bacterial but
they may pick up a secondary infection perhaps from a catheter or from a
bladder stone .


Several months ago I bought him a Feliway collar, because the diffusers
are
only good if the cat is in the same room where it's plugged in. I don't
have
a very big apartment, but it does have 4 small rooms, so if I wanted him
to
have the benefits all the time, I'd have to buy 4 of them a month. And
just
one per month is pretty costly.


They are very expensive. I put one where Kim slept the most and it
definately helped. I would try one and you might find he prefers to sleep
near it .
I dont know how long the collars last . Is there a date on the package?



I don't think radiology was ever involved, but she (the vet) definitely
checked for blockage. Can blood in the urine be caused by inflammation,
or
does it always indicate an infection? Because if it does, then he's had
an infection forever. And yet he never seems ill. He has lots of energy,
is alert and often very affectionate, his appetite is very healthy, and
as
I said, I've never noticed him straining to pee. His main problem in life
is anxiety. I like the Feliway idea, thanks for reminding me.

Here's a link explaining the reasons for blood in the urine.
http://www.cat-world.com.au/hematuria-in-cats

It was pretty certain that Kim had FIC .
So I had to alway be on the alert.
No dried food whatsoever.
Always had Feliway plugged in.
Added a teaspoon of water ot her wet food .
Give a maintenance amount of Cystease.

Kim later had Chronic Kidney disease and was put to sleep in Novenber 2011.
I miss having a cat . I have three little dogs now but they say Home is
where your cat is so perhaps one day I will have one again.

I hope this info helps . Good luck !


Thanks, Alison! This is a lot of information.

I just talked to the vet, and I'm bringing him in on Saturday. She did
mention the C/D prescription food, but (1) it didn't help much and (2) he
didn't like it anyway.

I said I had kept him on a grain-free diet and no dry food*. When I told
her that I used to give him Cosequin, she said that had nothing to do with
urinary problems. I know the primary use for that supplement is to strengthen
cartilege in the joints, but I have read that it can sometimes help with
chronic urinary inflammation. Well, in any case, it didn't help Licky, so
maybe the vet is right.

Licky is a bit late for shots, so it's just as well I take him in. He's
indoor-only, but he could get out. In the same vein, I'm going to get him
chipped.

* dry food - I do give both cats freeze-dried meat and fish, where the
only ingredient is the meat or fish. I wonder if even that could exacerbate
his problem?

By the way, what is cystease? It sounds like the name of a chemical used in
the body (I forget what the "-ase" suffix means), but you capitalized it, so
I wonder if it's a brand name. What does it do?

Thanks again,

--
Joyce

We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth
concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
-- Louis D. Brandeis

"Bastette" wrote in message ...

* dry food - I do give both cats freeze-dried meat and fish, where the
only ingredient is the meat or fish. I wonder if even that could exacerbate
his problem?

Joyce

We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth
concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
-- Louis D. Brandeis

~~~~~
I don't put freeze-dried food in the same category as dry food. I give a
small amount of Halo Liv-A-Littles freeze-dried chicken as a treat. It is
100% chicken, no grains. It does not look at all appetizing to me--looks
sort of like styrofoam--but Holly and Duffy both love it. Especially Duffy.
He dances at my feet while I open the container, and he practically inhales
it.

MaryL

MaryL wrote:

I had not responded because I have not faced this problem for many years and
have not kept up with research. My opinion would still be to use good
quality no-grains cat food and not the prescription food sold by many vets.
I still use Wellness as my preferred diet for cats (mostly turkey, chicken,
and beef+chicken). It is especially important to avoid dry food. I had a
wonderful cat (my very first one!) many years ago that had continual issues
with bladder infections/interstitial cystitis. I was still in graduate
school at the time and was fortunate to have a vet who permitted me to make
monthly payments for my cat's surgery. I have forgotten the exact time now,
but I think it took a couple of years to pay it off. After I left graduate
school and moved to the town where I still live, my cat continued to have
constant bladder infections even though he received daily prescriptions.
Then I met a vet who had just returned from England where he had studied
that specific problem. He said that they had good results by using Vitamin
C instead of prescription medication. I asked how much, and he said 250mg
twice a day. I was amazed! Such a large amount for such a little cat, but
he pointed out that any excess would be excreted in the urine, and the
intention was to acidify the urine. So, I looked around to find the very
smallest 250mg tablets (small to make it easy for my cat to swallow). I
started him on that protocol, and he was on it for the rest of his life. He
lived for another 15 years, and he never had another bladder infection.
Incidentally, Vitamin C has been found to cause diarrhea in some cats, so
you should watch for that. Fortunately, that was never a problem for me.

Mary, thanks!

I didn't know about that as a treatment. Pilling Licky is out of the question,
and the only chewable vitamin C I've seen in stores is orange flavored. Cats
aren't known for their love of citrus, so that might not work. I wonder if
there's a salmon-flavored version?

--
Joyce

We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth
concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
-- Louis D. Brandeis

On 7/21/2013 7:32 PM, Bastette wrote:
Hi - I could really use some advice, if anyone has any.

History: Licky has had chronic urinary tract inflammation for years.
When he was first diagnosed, the vet prescribed a special canned food
for him, which I bought right there. This was several years ago, so I
don't remember the specific results, but at some point I was talking
about it here, and several people insisted that the prescription food
was mostly junk, it just had (low pH? I don't remember what it was
that made it better for his UTI), and I should feed him high-quality,
grain-free food, and supplement it with Cosequin (which contains
glucosamine and chondroitin). So I did this, and it did appear that
he got a little better - for a while.

Then, maybe 6 months later, the little blood spots started to appear
again on the bathroom floor (where the litterbox is). I kept him on
the Cosequin for quite a while longer, but after a while there didn't
seem to be a point, since he continued to have blood in his urine. So
I stopped giving it to him (but kept him on the grain-free diet), and
he neither improved nor got worse. It's been this way ever since.

I've never seen any evidence of him straining to pee, or being unable
to pee. Whenever he's gone to the vet for a flare-up, they've checked
for blockage and there never is any. That has never been an issue,
although I always keep an eye out for unusual behavior related to
urination.

Current situation: It's been most OK, some blood spots, but nothing
unusual. But lately, I've started noticing that there are more blood
spots, and I'm afraid it might be getting worse. I'm going to call
the vet tomorrow to get an opinion about that and see if I should
bring him in. The thing is, I know that the vet is going to prescribe
the special low-pH (or whatever it is) diet and I don't want to give
him that.

It's hard to get decent advice, because opinions about Western vs.
holistic medicine are so polarized. It's worse when you're talking
about human healthcare, but even veterinary care has its little war
over modality. I really wish I could get good advice from a
knowledgeable person who is open to both Western *and* holistic and
can give me suggestions based on *considering all the options*, and
not just based on prejudices or negative attitudes about the "enemy
camp". I just want my boy to feel better!

Thanks,

I wish I had some advice but even though I've had male cats for years,
I've never had that problem with them. We can only send out best
wishes and purrs. I know that doesn't really help..

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.