Concerned about Licky

On 7/22/2013 6:38 PM, Bastette wrote:

Several months ago I bought him a Feliway collar,

I never knew they made one!

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 7/23/2013 10:36 PM, Bastette wrote:

I just talked to the vet, and I'm bringing him in on Saturday.

Good luck and keep us informed Joyce.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

"Bastette" wrote in message ...

MaryL wrote:

I had not responded because I have not faced this problem for many years
and
have not kept up with research. My opinion would still be to use good
quality no-grains cat food and not the prescription food sold by many
vets.
I still use Wellness as my preferred diet for cats (mostly turkey,
chicken,
and beef+chicken). It is especially important to avoid dry food. I had a
wonderful cat (my very first one!) many years ago that had continual
issues
with bladder infections/interstitial cystitis. I was still in graduate
school at the time and was fortunate to have a vet who permitted me to
make
monthly payments for my cat's surgery. I have forgotten the exact time
now,
but I think it took a couple of years to pay it off. After I left
graduate
school and moved to the town where I still live, my cat continued to have
constant bladder infections even though he received daily prescriptions.
Then I met a vet who had just returned from England where he had studied
that specific problem. He said that they had good results by using
Vitamin
C instead of prescription medication. I asked how much, and he said 250mg
twice a day. I was amazed! Such a large amount for such a little cat,
but
he pointed out that any excess would be excreted in the urine, and the
intention was to acidify the urine. So, I looked around to find the very
smallest 250mg tablets (small to make it easy for my cat to swallow). I
started him on that protocol, and he was on it for the rest of his life.
He
lived for another 15 years, and he never had another bladder infection.
Incidentally, Vitamin C has been found to cause diarrhea in some cats, so
you should watch for that. Fortunately, that was never a problem for me.

Mary, thanks!

I didn't know about that as a treatment. Pilling Licky is out of the
question,
and the only chewable vitamin C I've seen in stores is orange flavored. Cats
aren't known for their love of citrus, so that might not work. I wonder if
there's a salmon-flavored version?

Joyce

~~~~~~~
Vitamin C is available as a powder. You could also crush a tablet and mix
it in Lucky's food. I admit that I am rather skeptical of any of these
approaches because Vitamin C has a rather strong taste. But it would be
worth trying. I don't think orange flavored aspirin would work at all.

Good luck with this. I know you are very worried about Licky.

MaryL

"Bastette" wrote in message
...

Good luck with the vet visit . Which country do you live in. ?

* dry food - I do give both cats freeze-dried meat and fish, where the
only ingredient is the meat or fish. I wonder if even that could
exacerbate
his problem?

I'm sorry I dont know about freezed dried. The idea is that the cat has
as much moisture as possible .
perhaps you could consider an alternative and see if it makes a
difference.


By the way, what is cystease? It sounds like the name of a chemical used
in
the body (I forget what the "-ase" suffix means), but you capitalized it,
so
I wonder if it's a brand name. What does it do?


Its a food supplement also known as Cystaid . Its available in the UK but
I dont know about other countries .

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001A2V6EQ#productDetails

http://www.petdispensary.co.uk/shop/..._for_cats.html

"The feline bladder is lined by the glycosaminoglycan (GAG) layer, which
helps to maintain the integrity of the bladder lining by stopping
microorganisms and crystals adhering to the bladder wall. Each Cystease S
capsule contains 125mg N-acetylglucosamine, which is a building block for
the GAG layer. Supplementation helps to maintain the integrity of the cat`s
bladder lining. Cystease is a supplement that helps to sustain the
production of glycosaminoglycans in the bladder and alleviate the symptoms
of idiopathic cystitis. Cystease has been recommended by veterinary
specialists as a urinary supplement for cats. "

Alison

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:36:42 PM UTC-4, Bastette wrote:
Alison wrote:



Hi Joyce,

I forgot to add these links in my last post

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/flutd/info.html

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...tract_dis.html



I found the info very helpful.



Kim turned up in my garden in the summer of 2000 and I adopted her . the

first year was a nightmare as she had allergies and also the cystitis

problem. It went on for months and kept reoccuring.



The first symptoms i noticed then was her her acting "silly" and rushing

around like a kitten which is from the pain (not to be confused with the

Crazies as I call them ) She then peed on plastic bags and in the bath

which is cooling an helps the pain .

She was not totally blocked but her urethra became swollen and sore from

the straining. She had blood in her urine.



Later on I was more clued up and noticed that her wees became smaller, If

they were reduced to golf ball size , it was certain she had FIC again.



They dont really know the cause but if you read the links , they are

pretty certain that stress is a main contributor . A new cat in the garden

or a new pet and she would get FIC.



When you first go to the vet with this problem , they do standard

treatment of offering the special food and anti biotics as a matter of

course.

If this doesnt help then they may want to do tests to for a differential

diagnosis .



They did a ultra sound scan to check for bladder stones . It showed she had

tiny crystals but not enough to cause any problems . Its normal for most

cats to have some crystals in the bladder. If they drink enough water and

have wet food , they will pass out in the urine.



She also had urine tests to check for bacteria . In the case, she didn't

have a bacterial infection . Sometimes the cause may not be bacterial but

they may pick up a secondary infection perhaps from a catheter or from a

bladder stone .





Several months ago I bought him a Feliway collar, because the diffusers

are

only good if the cat is in the same room where it's plugged in. I don't

have

a very big apartment, but it does have 4 small rooms, so if I wanted him

to

have the benefits all the time, I'd have to buy 4 of them a month. And

just

one per month is pretty costly.





They are very expensive. I put one where Kim slept the most and it

definately helped. I would try one and you might find he prefers to sleep

near it .

I dont know how long the collars last . Is there a date on the package?







I don't think radiology was ever involved, but she (the vet) definitely

checked for blockage. Can blood in the urine be caused by inflammation,

or

does it always indicate an infection? Because if it does, then he's had

an infection forever. And yet he never seems ill. He has lots of energy,

is alert and often very affectionate, his appetite is very healthy, and

as

I said, I've never noticed him straining to pee. His main problem in life

is anxiety. I like the Feliway idea, thanks for reminding me.



Here's a link explaining the reasons for blood in the urine.

http://www.cat-world.com.au/hematuria-in-cats



It was pretty certain that Kim had FIC .

So I had to alway be on the alert.

No dried food whatsoever.

Always had Feliway plugged in.

Added a teaspoon of water ot her wet food .

Give a maintenance amount of Cystease.



Kim later had Chronic Kidney disease and was put to sleep in Novenber 2011.

I miss having a cat . I have three little dogs now but they say Home is

where your cat is so perhaps one day I will have one again.



I hope this info helps . Good luck !





Thanks, Alison! This is a lot of information.



I just talked to the vet, and I'm bringing him in on Saturday. She did

mention the C/D prescription food, but (1) it didn't help much and (2) he

didn't like it anyway.



I said I had kept him on a grain-free diet and no dry food*. When I told

her that I used to give him Cosequin, she said that had nothing to do with

urinary problems. I know the primary use for that supplement is to strengthen

cartilege in the joints, but I have read that it can sometimes help with

chronic urinary inflammation. Well, in any case, it didn't help Licky, so

maybe the vet is right.



Licky is a bit late for shots, so it's just as well I take him in. He's

indoor-only, but he could get out. In the same vein, I'm going to get him

chipped.



* dry food - I do give both cats freeze-dried meat and fish, where the

only ingredient is the meat or fish. I wonder if even that could exacerbate

his problem?


The first time Rusty (RB) had a urinary blockage, he was eating IAM ocean fish.
His vet said not to give him any food with fish.
After Rusty's 2nd blockage, the vet said no more dry food.
I still had a bottle of powder vitamin C left over from those days.
Don't remember whether I actually gave it to him though.
That was over 10 years ago.
Rusty had many episodes of urinary crystals. But when he got older, the
problem went away.

Blood in the urine sounds worrisome. At least that is the case in humans,
even when the blood is not visible, but only found in urine analysis.
Please keep us posted.

Winnie



By the way, what is cystease? It sounds like the name of a chemical used in

the body (I forget what the "-ase" suffix means), but you capitalized it, so

I wonder if it's a brand name. What does it do?



Thanks again,



--

Joyce



We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth

concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.

-- Louis D. Brandeis

Jack Campin wrote:

He said that they had good results by using Vitamin
C instead of prescription medication. I asked how much, and he said 250mg
twice a day. I was amazed! Such a large amount for such a little cat, but
he pointed out that any excess would be excreted in the urine, and the
intention was to acidify the urine. So, I looked around to find the very
smallest 250mg tablets (small to make it easy for my cat to swallow). I
started him on that protocol, and he was on it for the rest of his life. He
lived for another 15 years, and he never had another bladder infection.
Incidentally, Vitamin C has been found to cause diarrhea in some cats, so
you should watch for that. Fortunately, that was never a problem for me.

Vitamin C is sometimes used in similarly huge doses in humans, for
conditions like leaky gut syndrome. The usual protocol is to ramp
the dose up to the point where it's causing diarrhoea and then lower
it to just below the diarrhoea-inducing level. The same procedure
should work on a cat.

*What* is "leaky gut syndrome"? If it's what it sounds like, a treatment
that might cause diarrhea sounds like the opposite of what you'd want.

--
Joyce

What business is it of the state how consenting adults choose to pair
off, share expenses and eventually stop having sex with each other?
-- Bill Maher

MaryL wrote:

* dry food - I do give both cats freeze-dried meat and fish, where the
only ingredient is the meat or fish. I wonder if even that could exacerbate
his problem?

I don't put freeze-dried food in the same category as dry food. I give a
small amount of Halo Liv-A-Littles freeze-dried chicken as a treat. It is
100% chicken, no grains. It does not look at all appetizing to me--looks
sort of like styrofoam--but Holly and Duffy both love it. Especially Duffy.
He dances at my feet while I open the container, and he practically inhales
it.

I also give them Live-A-Littles, the chicken and salmon flavors. They go
nuts over it. The chicken treats do look like styrofoam, LOL. I'm sparing
with it, though, because it's expensive. I also give them freeze-dried treats
from another vendor (don't remember the name offhand). Those include shrimp,
chicken, beef and whitefish. They're cheaper, and the kitties like them,
though not as much as the Liv-A-Littles.

--
Joyce

What business is it of the state how consenting adults choose to pair
off, share expenses and eventually stop having sex with each other?
-- Bill Maher

MaryL wrote:

I didn't know about that as a treatment. Pilling Licky is out of the
question,
and the only chewable vitamin C I've seen in stores is orange flavored. Cats
aren't known for their love of citrus, so that might not work. I wonder if
there's a salmon-flavored version?

Vitamin C is available as a powder. You could also crush a tablet and mix
it in Lucky's food. I admit that I am rather skeptical of any of these
approaches because Vitamin C has a rather strong taste. But it would be
worth trying. I don't think orange flavored aspirin would work at all.

Aspirin? That's not a very safe drug to give a cat, unless you're very
careful. I did give Smudge aspirin for her arthritis - one 81 mg tab (aka
"baby aspirin") every 3 days. You can't give it any more frequently or it
can damage the liver. But I don't think that would acidify Licky's food.

I wonder if vinegar would work? That's pretty acidic. No idea how Licky
would react to vinegar-tasting food, though.





--
Joyce

What business is it of the state how consenting adults choose to pair
off, share expenses and eventually stop having sex with each other?
-- Bill Maher

Vitamin C is sometimes used in similarly huge doses in humans, for
conditions like leaky gut syndrome. The usual protocol is to ramp
the dose up to the point where it's causing diarrhoea and then lower
it to just below the diarrhoea-inducing level. The same procedure
should work on a cat.
*What* is "leaky gut syndrome"? If it's what it sounds like, a treatment
that might cause diarrhea sounds like the opposite of what you'd want.

It's when the gut has been damaged by infection or over-reactive
immune response, and becomes permeable to microbes and chemicals
that it wouldn't ordinarily let through. The result can be a wide
range of illnesses. Treatment is to try to improve the integrity
of the gut membranes and to regularize transit time - vitamin C
helps with both. It isn't something than can be fixed quickly or
easily. You don't want the vitamin C to cause actual diarrhoea,
but somewhat shortened transit time doesn't usually hurt.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 http://www.campin.me.uk Twitter: JackCampin

Alison wrote:

By the way, what is cystease?

Its a food supplement also known as Cystaid . Its available in the UK but
I dont know about other countries .

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001A2V6EQ#productDetails

http://www.petdispensary.co.uk/shop/..._for_cats.html

"The feline bladder is lined by the glycosaminoglycan (GAG) layer, which
helps to maintain the integrity of the bladder lining by stopping
microorganisms and crystals adhering to the bladder wall. Each Cystease S
capsule contains 125mg N-acetylglucosamine, which is a building block for
the GAG layer. Supplementation helps to maintain the integrity of the cat`s
bladder lining. Cystease is a supplement that helps to sustain the
production of glycosaminoglycans in the bladder and alleviate the symptoms
of idiopathic cystitis. Cystease has been recommended by veterinary
specialists as a urinary supplement for cats. "

Now that's interesting. "Glycosaminoglycan" and "N-acetylglucosamine"
both sound like glucosamine is involved in some form, which might be why
Cosequin has been suggested for bladder inflammation. I don't know if
the two kinds of chemicals are the same thing, though.

("Cosequin" is a brand name for a pet supplement containing glucosamine
and chondroitin, both of which are thought to strengthen joint cartilege.)

Note: I just went off and read some stuff about N-acetlyglucosamine and
glucosamine, and they're not exactly the same, but they're related. The
former does seem to be indicated for the "GAG" layer in a cat's bladder.
So I'm gong to see if Cystease or a similar product can be obtained in the
US.

--
Joyce

What business is it of the state how consenting adults choose to pair
off, share expenses and eventually stop having sex with each other?
-- Bill Maher