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Rutherford, at it again!



 
 
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  #51  
Old September 17th 04, 12:58 AM
Mary
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"jamie" wrote in message
...
Mary wrote:
Forgive the pun, but this is not a ****ing contest. It isn't "Rutherford
will win or Jimmy will win." Move the box and see what happens.
I think he has either an undiagnosed medical problem or
a behavioral problem caused by something else you are
doing. Cats that do this either have medical issues OR
they are trying to tell you something is making them
very uncomfortable. There is no mystery to it, and
there is no "being an asshole" about it. Cats don't think
like people.


This reminded me of a funny incident when I was a child. My
grandmother came for a visit for the weekend, and every time Taffy
came near her, she glared at him, and said, "I don't like cats."


With all due respect to grandmother, who was the asshole first?


That evening, she unpacked her small zippered suitcase, and put the
empty suitcase, with the zipper flap open, on the floor in front of
the dresser. Taffy strolled in, squatted in the suitcase while
staring at my grandmother, and peed.

That was the only time Taffy *ever* peed outside the litterbox
his whole life, and I'm pretty sure he was being an asshole,
in retaliation.

--


I do agree that they send messages with inappropriate
elimination. But I don't think Jimmy's cat is all determined
to pee whereever he wants. There is a problem, and speaking
of assholes, it started with the assholes who declawed
Rutherford then gave him up.


  #52  
Old September 17th 04, 07:25 PM
Barb
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I don't know who started this thread but flea and worm meds just can't be
all the vet could offer. What about urine and blood tests? Maybe another
vet.

--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.


  #53  
Old September 17th 04, 07:25 PM
Barb
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I don't know who started this thread but flea and worm meds just can't be
all the vet could offer. What about urine and blood tests? Maybe another
vet.

--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.


  #54  
Old September 17th 04, 11:47 PM
AC
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While I'd agree that cats aren't responsible for some of the bull#$%# that
humans participate in, they do seek revenge, and they definitely DO have
personalities that have been shaped by their previous experiences mixed with
the genetics of their basic personality. The permutations of those
parameters suggest that there are many possibilities for errant behaviour.
Cats can express themselves in only limited ways, so claws, noise & bodily
fluids are usually the options. To correct this, (and before you ask, I have
corrected 2 adult cats of my own - adopted at full grown) you need to think
just like a cat, and only then will you understand that no amount of Dr
Phil's "find out it's currency" will work with cats (although it does with
dogs!) - they are simply too free-willed to be shaped with treats,
affection/withdrawal.

The main point here, is that in bringing what is obviously a free-ranging,
semi-wild cat indoors, you are pushing it uphill thinking that it will
respond in the desired human way. Just put yourself in the converse
situation - how hard would it be for you if someone said "stop using the
toilet, I want you to pee in the garden, especially when other animals are
around - because that signifies that you are the boss here"???

It's going to take time & persistance. The absolute ideal situation
considering no medical problems I would suggest, is building a run outside
(if poss) to ease the transition. This way, it will begin to understand that
it doesn't get punished for this behaviour outside, but does inside. It's
all about understanding and catering to its natural instincts, and giving
the cat hints on what's acceptable, where. And you definitely need to keep
up on the negative reinforcement (water pistol & loud noise, preferably
human). The cat will respond slowly, but don't expect miracles overnight.


"Mary" wrote in message
m...

"jimmy the LD" wrote in message


...
Am I to understand that you have not taken him
to the vet??



No:
You are to understand that Rutherford has been to the vet, and he checks

out.
I have tried EVERY suggestion I have been given (with the exception of

the
Prozac) and nothing has worked.

I am considering the cat box thing, but I wonder if he's going to think

that
since I moved the toilet from where it is currently located (in the

master
bathroom shower) to the living room that it's perfectly okay to continue

to
**** where he likes - especially since I will have catered to him by

making
it easier to go on the carpet by moving the box.


Forgive the pun, but this is not a ****ing contest. It isn't "Rutherford
will win or Jimmy will win." Move the box and see what happens.
I think he has either an undiagnosed medical problem or
a behavioral problem caused by something else you are
doing. Cats that do this either have medical issues OR
they are trying to tell you something is making them
very uncomfortable. There is no mystery to it, and
there is no "being an asshole" about it. Cats don't think
like people.





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.756 / Virus Database: 506 - Release Date: 9/8/2004


  #55  
Old September 17th 04, 11:47 PM
AC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

While I'd agree that cats aren't responsible for some of the bull#$%# that
humans participate in, they do seek revenge, and they definitely DO have
personalities that have been shaped by their previous experiences mixed with
the genetics of their basic personality. The permutations of those
parameters suggest that there are many possibilities for errant behaviour.
Cats can express themselves in only limited ways, so claws, noise & bodily
fluids are usually the options. To correct this, (and before you ask, I have
corrected 2 adult cats of my own - adopted at full grown) you need to think
just like a cat, and only then will you understand that no amount of Dr
Phil's "find out it's currency" will work with cats (although it does with
dogs!) - they are simply too free-willed to be shaped with treats,
affection/withdrawal.

The main point here, is that in bringing what is obviously a free-ranging,
semi-wild cat indoors, you are pushing it uphill thinking that it will
respond in the desired human way. Just put yourself in the converse
situation - how hard would it be for you if someone said "stop using the
toilet, I want you to pee in the garden, especially when other animals are
around - because that signifies that you are the boss here"???

It's going to take time & persistance. The absolute ideal situation
considering no medical problems I would suggest, is building a run outside
(if poss) to ease the transition. This way, it will begin to understand that
it doesn't get punished for this behaviour outside, but does inside. It's
all about understanding and catering to its natural instincts, and giving
the cat hints on what's acceptable, where. And you definitely need to keep
up on the negative reinforcement (water pistol & loud noise, preferably
human). The cat will respond slowly, but don't expect miracles overnight.


"Mary" wrote in message
m...

"jimmy the LD" wrote in message


...
Am I to understand that you have not taken him
to the vet??



No:
You are to understand that Rutherford has been to the vet, and he checks

out.
I have tried EVERY suggestion I have been given (with the exception of

the
Prozac) and nothing has worked.

I am considering the cat box thing, but I wonder if he's going to think

that
since I moved the toilet from where it is currently located (in the

master
bathroom shower) to the living room that it's perfectly okay to continue

to
**** where he likes - especially since I will have catered to him by

making
it easier to go on the carpet by moving the box.


Forgive the pun, but this is not a ****ing contest. It isn't "Rutherford
will win or Jimmy will win." Move the box and see what happens.
I think he has either an undiagnosed medical problem or
a behavioral problem caused by something else you are
doing. Cats that do this either have medical issues OR
they are trying to tell you something is making them
very uncomfortable. There is no mystery to it, and
there is no "being an asshole" about it. Cats don't think
like people.





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.756 / Virus Database: 506 - Release Date: 9/8/2004


  #56  
Old September 17th 04, 11:54 PM
AC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Peeing in the water dish may be the best thing yet. Cats learn in funny
ways. A friend of mine once had a cat that learned to pee in THE TOILET!
from humans. So funny, people used to bring their friends to watch it.

The water dish doesn't correspond to cats to what humans think of as "eating
spot - keep that clean" at all. Cats have no concept of germs, or other
society-taught manners, only instinct shaped by experience.

An experiment I woud try also is placing several "water dishes" around the
house. If he starts going there, slowly decrease the amount of water in the
dish, then introduce litter to the bowls. Once you have this association,
you could build a "water bowl litterbox". Think slow change, just like the
frog in water.





"Karen" wrote in message
...

"jimmy the LD" wrote in message
...
I'm sorry, but that sounds like illness to me. Desparate illness at

that.
I
would bet anything he is ill.


He's not lethargic or anything, and the vet says he's fine.



I think you need a different vet. I'm sorry, but peeing in the water dish

is
NOT just behavioural. THERE IS SOMETHING PHYSICALLY WRONG WITH THIS CAT.
Whether or not you want to believe it, there is. I also agree with Megan

he
may have a botched declaw job and if the vet you are taking him to did the
surgery, you can BET he is going to say "Oh, there is nothing physically
wrong".




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.756 / Virus Database: 506 - Release Date: 9/8/2004


  #57  
Old September 17th 04, 11:54 PM
AC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Peeing in the water dish may be the best thing yet. Cats learn in funny
ways. A friend of mine once had a cat that learned to pee in THE TOILET!
from humans. So funny, people used to bring their friends to watch it.

The water dish doesn't correspond to cats to what humans think of as "eating
spot - keep that clean" at all. Cats have no concept of germs, or other
society-taught manners, only instinct shaped by experience.

An experiment I woud try also is placing several "water dishes" around the
house. If he starts going there, slowly decrease the amount of water in the
dish, then introduce litter to the bowls. Once you have this association,
you could build a "water bowl litterbox". Think slow change, just like the
frog in water.





"Karen" wrote in message
...

"jimmy the LD" wrote in message
...
I'm sorry, but that sounds like illness to me. Desparate illness at

that.
I
would bet anything he is ill.


He's not lethargic or anything, and the vet says he's fine.



I think you need a different vet. I'm sorry, but peeing in the water dish

is
NOT just behavioural. THERE IS SOMETHING PHYSICALLY WRONG WITH THIS CAT.
Whether or not you want to believe it, there is. I also agree with Megan

he
may have a botched declaw job and if the vet you are taking him to did the
surgery, you can BET he is going to say "Oh, there is nothing physically
wrong".




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.756 / Virus Database: 506 - Release Date: 9/8/2004


  #58  
Old September 18th 04, 12:10 AM
Mary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"AC" wrote in message
...
[...]


The main point here, is that in bringing what is obviously a free-ranging,
semi-wild cat indoors, you are pushing it uphill thinking that it will
respond in the desired human way. Just put yourself in the converse
situation - how hard would it be for you if someone said "stop using the
toilet, I want you to pee in the garden, especially when other animals are
around - because that signifies that you are the boss here"???


I don't buy this. I have seen too many ferals and primarily outdoor cats
take to the litter box.



It's going to take time & persistance. The absolute ideal situation
considering no medical problems I would suggest, is building a run outside
(if poss) to ease the transition. This way, it will begin to understand

that
it doesn't get punished for this behaviour outside, but does inside. It's
all about understanding and catering to its natural instincts, and giving
the cat hints on what's acceptable, where. And you definitely need to keep
up on the negative reinforcement (water pistol & loud noise, preferably
human). The cat will respond slowly, but don't expect miracles overnight.



Hey Jimmy, is it safe for Rutherford to go outside?


  #59  
Old September 18th 04, 12:10 AM
Mary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"AC" wrote in message
...
[...]


The main point here, is that in bringing what is obviously a free-ranging,
semi-wild cat indoors, you are pushing it uphill thinking that it will
respond in the desired human way. Just put yourself in the converse
situation - how hard would it be for you if someone said "stop using the
toilet, I want you to pee in the garden, especially when other animals are
around - because that signifies that you are the boss here"???


I don't buy this. I have seen too many ferals and primarily outdoor cats
take to the litter box.



It's going to take time & persistance. The absolute ideal situation
considering no medical problems I would suggest, is building a run outside
(if poss) to ease the transition. This way, it will begin to understand

that
it doesn't get punished for this behaviour outside, but does inside. It's
all about understanding and catering to its natural instincts, and giving
the cat hints on what's acceptable, where. And you definitely need to keep
up on the negative reinforcement (water pistol & loud noise, preferably
human). The cat will respond slowly, but don't expect miracles overnight.



Hey Jimmy, is it safe for Rutherford to go outside?


  #60  
Old September 18th 04, 03:14 AM
Sara
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Posts: n/a
Default

bonbon wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:56:44 -0400, "jimmy the LD"
wrote:

Hi All:
Another update on Rutherford the Brave, the floor-****ing and wall-spraying
cat...

(snip)
Frustrated and sick of smelling the pee,
Jimmy


Jimmy, I just joined, so forgive me if I'm posting with info you've
already received.


Perhaps he wants a larger litter box.

If it's an open box, try one of those enclosed types.

Try a different type of litter.

If it's an open box, and up against a wall, try moving it 8-12 inches
away from the wall. (that solved the prob. with my floor ****er)

Is he an only cat? If so, get him a companion from the shelter. Once
they've gotten acquainted, maybe the new guy will show him the
correct place to ****.


Again, sorry if I'm just repeating what you've already heard - I'm
supposed to be getting ready for work, and didn't have time to read
all of the previous posts. I know first hand how frustrating and
maddening it is when you have a floor ****er, because you love the
little fart.

Good luck.

-bonbon


My friend had a similiar problem...she ended up having to put her cat
outside on a leash for about twenty minutes once every couple of
hours. See if it works. Oh the reason she had to do that was because
he was "too clean" of a cat to put his paws in the "dirty" litter. It
didn't matter how often she changed the litter.
HTH
Sara
 




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