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  #21  
Old September 1st 03, 06:21 PM
Phil P.
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om...



Someone also stated that the AAFCO, classifed livestock and pet food
in different catagories. Dr. David Dzanis, formerly a veterinary
medical officer with the CVM, made it clear in a letter that ALL AAFCO
'ingredient definitions' applied to both livestock and pet food.


Did you misrepresent others' statements in your book to suit your agenda,
also? What I actually said was:

"Because an ingredient has the same description, that doesn't mean that
ingredient can be used in either food!"

Followed by the AAFCO regulation:

"9. ANIMAL PRODUCTS . Official

*Use of this ingredient, from mammalian origins, is restricted to
non-ruminant feeds unless specifically exempted by 21 CFR 589.2000."

IOW, Martin the Manipulator, some of the ingredients used in food for
ruminants cannot be used in cat food. Cats are non-ruminant animals - I
doubt you knew that...

I said nothing about different definitions for the same ingredients used in
feed for livestock and food for cats. *You* conjured up that
misrepresentation all by yourself...I wonder how many misrepresentations you
conjured up in your book for effect.....

I wouldn't believe your so-called documentation unless it was notarized and
witnessed by a priest... and a rabbi... and a minister... and a monk...

All your hyperbole and sensationalism can't change the fact that cats are
living longer today than they've ever lived before - and the overwhelmingly
vast majority eat *commercial cat food* their entire lives... which is
usually into their late teens and even early twenties.

As I said before, if 1/10 of the "danger" you sensationalize to sell books
was *real* or *true*, the vast majority of cats that eat commercial cat
food would be dropping like flies at young ages instead of living longer...
into their late teens and even into their early twenties. *Reality* debunks
your scaremongering... you should try opening your eyes to it... But then
you
wouldn't sell many books, now would you?




  #22  
Old September 1st 03, 09:09 PM
Ann Martin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From:
pam (Mary)

NOW
WOULD YOU PLEASE PROVIDE SOME DOCUMENTATION AS TO WHO REGULATES THE
INGREDIENTS THAT ARE IN COMMERCIAL FOOD


http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petfoodflier.html

"The Act does require that pet foods, like human foods, be pure and
wholesome,
contain no harmful or deleterious substances, and be truthfully labeled."

That's about it.


Yeah, that's about it. But I see nothing about pet food be regulated at all.


You're right, no one regulates the ingredients in these foods.
Contact the FDA/CVM and ask them outright if they, or any agencey,
inspects or tests the raw materials used in commercial pet foods.

One person in this news group stated that the USDA/FSIS regulated pet
food. In an e-mail I received from this department they made it very
clear ""NO" FSIS does not inspects or oversees any ingredients used in
commercial pet food."

I believe this same person stated that it was illegal to use
euthanized dogs and cats in commercial pet foods. Again I quoted from
a letter I received from Christine Richmond of the FDA/CVM who wrote
"CVM has not acted to specifically prohibit the rendering of pets.
However, that is not to say that the practice of using this material
in pet food is condoned by the CVM." First of all, it is not illegal.
Second, the FDA/CVM is aware that this is happening but will take no
step to prohibit this practice. I also have letters from a number of
people associated with the AAFCO, various states across the U.S.. I
asked all of them if any testing is undertaken on any of the raw
materials used in commercial pet foods. The reply from all was "NO."
I have asked the people who over and over again tell us this industry
is regulated to provide some proof of this and not one of them has
been able to do this. They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus,
nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage, and
then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease etc.
in pets then basically what we are feeding them. Why on earth do they
think the pets are suffering from so many ills. Could it be from the
garbage we are feeding them?

Sorry that this has been a rather lengthy reply to your statement,
Lauren but I think people should find out for themselves how regulated
this industry actually is.

Ann








Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

  #23  
Old September 1st 03, 09:09 PM
Ann Martin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From:
pam (Mary)

NOW
WOULD YOU PLEASE PROVIDE SOME DOCUMENTATION AS TO WHO REGULATES THE
INGREDIENTS THAT ARE IN COMMERCIAL FOOD


http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petfoodflier.html

"The Act does require that pet foods, like human foods, be pure and
wholesome,
contain no harmful or deleterious substances, and be truthfully labeled."

That's about it.


Yeah, that's about it. But I see nothing about pet food be regulated at all.


You're right, no one regulates the ingredients in these foods.
Contact the FDA/CVM and ask them outright if they, or any agencey,
inspects or tests the raw materials used in commercial pet foods.

One person in this news group stated that the USDA/FSIS regulated pet
food. In an e-mail I received from this department they made it very
clear ""NO" FSIS does not inspects or oversees any ingredients used in
commercial pet food."

I believe this same person stated that it was illegal to use
euthanized dogs and cats in commercial pet foods. Again I quoted from
a letter I received from Christine Richmond of the FDA/CVM who wrote
"CVM has not acted to specifically prohibit the rendering of pets.
However, that is not to say that the practice of using this material
in pet food is condoned by the CVM." First of all, it is not illegal.
Second, the FDA/CVM is aware that this is happening but will take no
step to prohibit this practice. I also have letters from a number of
people associated with the AAFCO, various states across the U.S.. I
asked all of them if any testing is undertaken on any of the raw
materials used in commercial pet foods. The reply from all was "NO."
I have asked the people who over and over again tell us this industry
is regulated to provide some proof of this and not one of them has
been able to do this. They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus,
nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage, and
then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease etc.
in pets then basically what we are feeding them. Why on earth do they
think the pets are suffering from so many ills. Could it be from the
garbage we are feeding them?

Sorry that this has been a rather lengthy reply to your statement,
Lauren but I think people should find out for themselves how regulated
this industry actually is.

Ann








Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

  #24  
Old September 1st 03, 09:22 PM
KellyH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Just curious, as I missed a lot of this thread, Ann, are you against the
whole, natural pet foods, such as California Natural and Wellness? Both
state they use human-grade ingredients. I just started feeding my cats the
Wellness canned cat food, and I have to say, it smells much better than most
commercial cat food, and I have noticed the litterbox is less stinky.
What about the prescription pet foods? What is a pet owner supposed to do
if their cat or dog requires a prescription food?

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
Check out www.snittens.com

"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om...
olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message

...
From:
pam (Mary)



http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petfoodflier.html

"The Act does require that pet foods, like human foods, be pure and
wholesome,
contain no harmful or deleterious substances, and be truthfully

labeled."

That's about it.


Yeah, that's about it. But I see nothing about pet food be regulated at

all.

You're right, no one regulates the ingredients in these foods.
Contact the FDA/CVM and ask them outright if they, or any agencey,
inspects or tests the raw materials used in commercial pet foods.

One person in this news group stated that the USDA/FSIS regulated pet
food. In an e-mail I received from this department they made it very
clear ""NO" FSIS does not inspects or oversees any ingredients used in
commercial pet food."

I believe this same person stated that it was illegal to use
euthanized dogs and cats in commercial pet foods. Again I quoted from
a letter I received from Christine Richmond of the FDA/CVM who wrote
"CVM has not acted to specifically prohibit the rendering of pets.
However, that is not to say that the practice of using this material
in pet food is condoned by the CVM." First of all, it is not illegal.
Second, the FDA/CVM is aware that this is happening but will take no
step to prohibit this practice. I also have letters from a number of
people associated with the AAFCO, various states across the U.S.. I
asked all of them if any testing is undertaken on any of the raw
materials used in commercial pet foods. The reply from all was "NO."
I have asked the people who over and over again tell us this industry
is regulated to provide some proof of this and not one of them has
been able to do this. They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus,
nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage, and
then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease etc.
in pets then basically what we are feeding them. Why on earth do they
think the pets are suffering from so many ills. Could it be from the
garbage we are feeding them?

Sorry that this has been a rather lengthy reply to your statement,
Lauren but I think people should find out for themselves how regulated
this industry actually is.

Ann








Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm



  #25  
Old September 1st 03, 09:22 PM
KellyH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Just curious, as I missed a lot of this thread, Ann, are you against the
whole, natural pet foods, such as California Natural and Wellness? Both
state they use human-grade ingredients. I just started feeding my cats the
Wellness canned cat food, and I have to say, it smells much better than most
commercial cat food, and I have noticed the litterbox is less stinky.
What about the prescription pet foods? What is a pet owner supposed to do
if their cat or dog requires a prescription food?

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
Check out www.snittens.com

"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om...
olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message

...
From:
pam (Mary)



http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petfoodflier.html

"The Act does require that pet foods, like human foods, be pure and
wholesome,
contain no harmful or deleterious substances, and be truthfully

labeled."

That's about it.


Yeah, that's about it. But I see nothing about pet food be regulated at

all.

You're right, no one regulates the ingredients in these foods.
Contact the FDA/CVM and ask them outright if they, or any agencey,
inspects or tests the raw materials used in commercial pet foods.

One person in this news group stated that the USDA/FSIS regulated pet
food. In an e-mail I received from this department they made it very
clear ""NO" FSIS does not inspects or oversees any ingredients used in
commercial pet food."

I believe this same person stated that it was illegal to use
euthanized dogs and cats in commercial pet foods. Again I quoted from
a letter I received from Christine Richmond of the FDA/CVM who wrote
"CVM has not acted to specifically prohibit the rendering of pets.
However, that is not to say that the practice of using this material
in pet food is condoned by the CVM." First of all, it is not illegal.
Second, the FDA/CVM is aware that this is happening but will take no
step to prohibit this practice. I also have letters from a number of
people associated with the AAFCO, various states across the U.S.. I
asked all of them if any testing is undertaken on any of the raw
materials used in commercial pet foods. The reply from all was "NO."
I have asked the people who over and over again tell us this industry
is regulated to provide some proof of this and not one of them has
been able to do this. They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus,
nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage, and
then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease etc.
in pets then basically what we are feeding them. Why on earth do they
think the pets are suffering from so many ills. Could it be from the
garbage we are feeding them?

Sorry that this has been a rather lengthy reply to your statement,
Lauren but I think people should find out for themselves how regulated
this industry actually is.

Ann








Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm



  #26  
Old September 2nd 03, 12:15 AM
GAUBSTER2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus,
nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage, and
then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease etc.


Well, shouldn't we be? Kidney disease is a MAJOR problem in cats, and yet you
act as if you can't be bothered w/ it?

Why on earth do they
think the pets are suffering from so many ills. Could it be from the
garbage we are feeding them?


More of your opinion and speculation. ANSWER THE FRIGGIN QUESTIONS, ANNIE.
Please provide some PROOF that is asked of you by Steve Crane or Phil P.

Oh that's right. You aren't "going to waste your time". I guess you can't
back up what you allege.
  #27  
Old September 2nd 03, 12:15 AM
GAUBSTER2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus,
nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage, and
then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease etc.


Well, shouldn't we be? Kidney disease is a MAJOR problem in cats, and yet you
act as if you can't be bothered w/ it?

Why on earth do they
think the pets are suffering from so many ills. Could it be from the
garbage we are feeding them?


More of your opinion and speculation. ANSWER THE FRIGGIN QUESTIONS, ANNIE.
Please provide some PROOF that is asked of you by Steve Crane or Phil P.

Oh that's right. You aren't "going to waste your time". I guess you can't
back up what you allege.
  #28  
Old September 2nd 03, 03:20 AM
Dennis Carr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:41:24 -0700, Ann Martin wrote:

What is this industry doing? Lying to the pet owner's, brain washing
them into believing that feeding commercial pet foods, garbage, is the
only way they can have a healthy pet. In the meantime these people, the
pet owner's, are incurring thousands of dollars in vet bills from
feeding this garbage.


Big hairy deal. The fast food industry does the same bloody thing to
humans, peddling its schmutz as wholesome and good for you, yet we have
people filing lawsuits because the easily accessible nutrition information
wasn't easily accessible enough. What of it?

--
Dennis Carr - | I may be out of my mind,
http://www.dennis.furtopia.org | But I have more fun that way.
------------------------------------+-------------------------------

  #29  
Old September 2nd 03, 03:20 AM
Dennis Carr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:41:24 -0700, Ann Martin wrote:

What is this industry doing? Lying to the pet owner's, brain washing
them into believing that feeding commercial pet foods, garbage, is the
only way they can have a healthy pet. In the meantime these people, the
pet owner's, are incurring thousands of dollars in vet bills from
feeding this garbage.


Big hairy deal. The fast food industry does the same bloody thing to
humans, peddling its schmutz as wholesome and good for you, yet we have
people filing lawsuits because the easily accessible nutrition information
wasn't easily accessible enough. What of it?

--
Dennis Carr - | I may be out of my mind,
http://www.dennis.furtopia.org | But I have more fun that way.
------------------------------------+-------------------------------

  #30  
Old September 2nd 03, 03:24 AM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In ,
GAUBSTER2 composed with style:

They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus,
nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage,
and
then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease
etc.


Well, shouldn't we be? Kidney disease is a MAJOR problem in cats,
and yet you act as if you can't be bothered w/ it?

It seems to me that those low phosphorus levels aren't coming from
foods with meat as the main protein source.


 




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