Religious door to door callers are dense....

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:23:59 -0500, wrote:

Maybe what people are trying to get at when they use that phrase - other
than the ones who use it to refer to their hatred and bigotry - is a sense
of, maybe, civility, commitment to one's community, respect for other
human beings and for the needs of children? Single people, and couples
without kids, can certainly have those values, too.

So, if anyone cares to, I'd like to hear a definition of "family values".
What does it mean to you? What values are included? What values, behaviors,
attitudes, etc, are *not* included?

You hit the nail on the head as far as my definition: your first paragraph
above: civility, commitment to one's community, respect.

That's R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Ain't got nothing to do with bible study. In my opinion, you either take the
bible in its entirety or you allow for others to "selectively interpret" its
teachings too.

Anyway, the bible is only one source for inspiration among many.

And no xenophobes need apply.

I apologize for being so OT.

Just my opinion. I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. I *have* my bag of
goods, and I'm happy with it.

(Oh, and thanks for asking! :-)

--
Joey DoWop Dee
Remember: It is To Laugh

wrote:

Ketzl's Dad wrote:

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:

Thank you for speaking on behalf of most of us.

Does that mean you don't agree? (Sometimes it's difficult
to determine whether a remark is genuine or intended as
sarcasm.)

The term "family values", as is has evolved -- or devolved, a better
description -- has become symbolic to me of bigoted narrow-minded
bible-thumping zealots.

It's not the values I deplo it's the bigotry inherent in the term.

What I don't like about this phrase - aside from its usage as a euphemism
for "keep out the homosexshuls" - is the idea that everyone wants to,
or *should* want to, live in a family. Also, at least to me, the actual
meaning of the phrase is rather vague. What exactly *are* family values,
anyway?

When I used the term to refer to Mormons, I certainly didn't
mean anything derogatory! Unlike the fanatics who pay
lip-service to the idea, most of the Mormons I've known have
a genuine sense of "family" in the true meaning of the word.
They care for each other's well-being, support each
other's efforts, help each other when they need help, and
try to treat all their friends and acquaintances with the
same consideration (as though they were all one family).

I realize some of the people here did not experience close
relationships with their own families (indeed some of you
were even abused as children). However, to many of us
"family" still means the people we can turn to in need, who
will help us, no questions asked. A haven where we are
guaranteed acceptance, without fear of being turned away
because they disapprove of some of our actions. THAT'S what
I think of as true "family values".

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:

When I used the term to refer to Mormons, I certainly didn't
mean anything derogatory! Unlike the fanatics who pay
lip-service to the idea, most of the Mormons I've known have
a genuine sense of "family" in the true meaning of the word.

I know the term is not used in a derogatory way, unless someone is
referring to its use as a disguise for various sorts of bigotry. (Not
just anti-gay, although that seems to be the primary motive.)

I realize some of the people here did not experience close
relationships with their own families (indeed some of you
were even abused as children). However, to many of us
"family" still means the people we can turn to in need, who
will help us, no questions asked. A haven where we are
guaranteed acceptance, without fear of being turned away
because they disapprove of some of our actions. THAT'S what
I think of as true "family values".


That's really lovely - you're lucky! Unfortunately, I have to count
myself among the people who did not experience unconditional love from
my family, and did experience abuse. It's not all bad, and I do get
along with my immediate family, mostly, but I wouldn't turn to them in
times of trouble.

Well, actually, I did borrow some money from my sister last year when
I was broke. On the other hand, I borrowed a much larger sum from a
good friend, and another good friend *gave* me a much larger amount,
even though I think my sister is better off than they are. So while my
sister was certainly there for me, I would still turn to my friends
first. And I would definitely not go to my family for emotional support.

Actually, I don't know anyone who goes to their parents, siblings or
other relatives for emotional support. But maybe that's because people
with similar experiences and backgrounds gravitate toward each other,
so I ended up with a bunch of friends who all have problematic family
relationships.

Anyway, I think you have a good point here. I obviously have a much
more negative connotation to the word "family" than you and perhaps
other lucky individuals do.

Joyce

Helen Miles wrote:
This is a minor rant, so bear with me...

JW's are quite possibly THE most annoying people on the planet. I
have a BIG sign on my front door that says

"No salespeople, NO religious callers, NO political canvasing.
Official callers must have ID."

To me, that is perfectly clear. I don't like to be disturbed by
people I am not expecting as it disrupts the cats and it invades my
privacy.

John has a favourite answer when the religious nuts come calling. Doesn't
matter what the religious denomenation is, they invariably start out with
saying something innane like "Have you found the Lord?" And he steps
outside, looks around and says, "What? Is he lost?" They simply don't know
what to say as he goes back inside and shuts the door in their faces.

Jill

Sherry wrote:
On Feb 20, 11:22?am, "Jo Firey" wrote:
"Sherry" wrote in message

oups.com...
On Feb 20, 3:48?am, "jmcquown" wrote:

Sherry wrote:

It was just funny the way they literally backed up away from my
door when I
proclaimed I'm not a Baptist, like I'd said something very evil and
they were likely to be whisked promptly to hell if they stood close
to me a moment longer.

I don't think religion should be a door to door thing. It's a highly
personal subject and to do so is very intrusive.

I agree with the last line for sure. Then I thought, I support
overseas missions wholeheartedly. What a hypocrite I am.

I had to rethink my attitude toward missions years ago when one of
Charlie's cousins went overseas as a missionary - to Germany.

Jo

Well, that's irony for you. Germany is probably more civilized than we
are.

Sherry

Yeah, they only started TWO world wars. (And before you get started, my
paternal grandmother was German.)

Jill

wrote in message
...

Actually, I don't know anyone who goes to their parents, siblings or
other relatives for emotional support. But maybe that's because people
with similar experiences and backgrounds gravitate toward each other,
so I ended up with a bunch of friends who all have problematic family
relationships.

Anyway, I think you have a good point here. I obviously have a much
more negative connotation to the word "family" than you and perhaps
other lucky individuals do.




I think is only natural to think of our own view of the world as being the
"natural" way to view the world.

And I know I have been very lucky in my family. My dad and my aunt had
birthdays a few days apart. Her daughter and I still email each other on
their birthdays to share how lucky we feel that they were out parents.

Before my brother died, we called each other often since we lived on
opposite coasts. Some days when things were going a bit rough here, I'd
call and tell him I just needed to talk to someone that I knew loved me and
wasn't currently upset with me.

My sister and I are still close. I can't wait to spend a week with her in
May.

And I dearly love my remaining aunt. She is the only one left now that was
"there when I was born". And yes we still share our problems and turn to
each other for emotional support.

Jo

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:30:36 -0500, jmcquown wrote:

John has a favourite answer when the religious nuts come calling. Doesn't
matter what the religious denomenation is, they invariably start out with
saying something innane like "Have you found the Lord?" And he steps
outside, looks around and says, "What? Is he lost?" They simply don't know
what to say as he goes back inside and shuts the door in their faces.

Jill

BIG chuckle.

--
Joey DoWop Dee
Remember: It is To Laugh

On Feb 21, 6:34�pm, "jmcquown" wrote:
Sherry wrote:
On Feb 20, 11:22?am, "Jo Firey" wrote:
"Sherry" wrote in message

groups.com...
On Feb 20, 3:48?am, "jmcquown" wrote:

Sherry wrote:

It was just funny the way they literally backed up away from my
door when I
proclaimed I'm not a Baptist, like I'd said something very evil and
they were likely to be whisked promptly to hell if they stood close
to me a moment longer.

I don't think religion should be a door to door thing. It's a highly
personal subject and to do so is very intrusive.

I agree with the last line for sure. Then I thought, I support
overseas missions wholeheartedly. What a hypocrite I am.

I had to rethink my attitude toward missions years ago when one of
Charlie's cousins went overseas as a missionary - to Germany.

Jo

Well, that's irony for you. Germany is probably more civilized than we
are.

Sherry

Yeah, they only started TWO world wars. *(And before you get started, my
paternal grandmother was German.)

Jill- Hide quoted text -

That's a crappy thing to say about a beautiful country, so rich in
culture and history. Besides, I was talking about the present.

Sherry

jmcquown wrote:

Sherry wrote:

On Feb 20, 11:22?am, "Jo Firey" wrote:

"Sherry" wrote in message

egroups.com...
On Feb 20, 3:48?am, "jmcquown" wrote:


Sherry wrote:

It was just funny the way they literally backed up away from my
door when I
proclaimed I'm not a Baptist, like I'd said something very evil and
they were likely to be whisked promptly to hell if they stood close
to me a moment longer.

I don't think religion should be a door to door thing. It's a highly
personal subject and to do so is very intrusive.

I agree with the last line for sure. Then I thought, I support
overseas missions wholeheartedly. What a hypocrite I am.

I had to rethink my attitude toward missions years ago when one of
Charlie's cousins went overseas as a missionary - to Germany.

Jo

Well, that's irony for you. Germany is probably more civilized than we
are.

Sherry


Yeah, they only started TWO world wars. (And before you get started, my
paternal grandmother was German.)

Well, give Bush time - he's well on his way in the Middle
East, and I'm not sure he's through with his sabre-rattling
re North Korea! (At least Germany learned from its mistakes
- I seriously doubt they'd stand for a president ignoring
their constitution, these days!)

"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
Sherry wrote:
On Feb 20, 11:22?am, "Jo Firey" wrote:
"Sherry" wrote in message

oups.com...
On Feb 20, 3:48?am, "jmcquown" wrote:

Sherry wrote:

It was just funny the way they literally backed up away from my
door when I
proclaimed I'm not a Baptist, like I'd said something very evil and
they were likely to be whisked promptly to hell if they stood close
to me a moment longer.

I don't think religion should be a door to door thing. It's a highly
personal subject and to do so is very intrusive.

I agree with the last line for sure. Then I thought, I support
overseas missions wholeheartedly. What a hypocrite I am.

I had to rethink my attitude toward missions years ago when one of
Charlie's cousins went overseas as a missionary - to Germany.

Jo

Well, that's irony for you. Germany is probably more civilized than we
are.

Sherry

Yeah, they only started TWO world wars. (And before you get started, my
paternal grandmother was German.)

Jill


I think it's time to let that go now, after 60 years, don't you?

Tweed