brain fart or how keep kitten from biting

On 7/09/2011 5:33 PM, CatNipped wrote:
On 9/7/2011 2:16 AM, Yowie wrote:
In ,
typed:

*snip*

After posting the video showing that this milder form of remonstrance
works immediately and well and in a manner cats understand and
respect, he still insisted that yelling at cats and grabbing their
teeth is the way to handle the situation.

Thats not how I saw it.

Sorry, I *do* consider
that "bordering on abuse" - if it were not would "they hate that"
apply?

Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they hate
the
feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why putting alfoil
down on
a surface you don't want them on works, they hate loud hissing noises -
which is why an air can works, and apparently hate the smell of citrus -
which is why people recommend using citrus smell to deter cats. None of
which would be considered abusive. The question is one of /harm/ - is the
cat being *harmed* by whatever it is Matthew is doing? I don't know for
sure, but I doubt it. using such a strong word as 'abuse' to express your
distaste of his cat training method smacks of a certain cat lady here who
would consider feeding cats generic supermarket cat food 'abuse' too.
Perhaps there are better ways of doing things, but not doing things
the best
way is a long way from abuse.

Yowie



Ergo the use of "bordering on". A *very* large grown man screaming and
grabbing at the teeth of a cat thirty five times plus smaller in size
and "rubbing back and forth" sounds violent to me - how much more
pressure might it take to break a tooth?

May I humbly suggest, given what you write below, that due to being a
victim of abuse yourself, you are reading much more into Matthew's words
(and creating a violent scene for yourself to judge by, such as you
paint above, based on that abuse) that doesn't match the mere 10 words
he actually wrote?

And in the face of being given
a not only gentler, but much more effect solution, he instead insisted
his bullying is the better solution

Matthew stated that a) he believes his method works, b) he sees no
evidence of his cats feeling abused when he does this and c) that he
doesn't think your method would work on his cats.

So far, it seems to be a difference of opinion on training methods to
me. YMMV.

Maybe having been the victim of a
somewhat similar situation makes me more sensitive to the implications
and feelings of the smaller creature, the fear this can invoke, makes my
stomach turn. Again, that's my opinion and continuing to chastise me for
my opinion is not going to change it. I ask again, can we discontinue
the conversation?

I'm not intending to 'chastise' *you* (you know I don't indulge in ad
hominem), I'm merely questioning whether using a word as strong as
'abuse' was warranted, especially in a group that - quite demonstrably-
descends into a raging flame fest at the mere hint of potential animal
abuse.

Tell you what, for the sake of the friendship that we both enjoy, if we
can agree that:

a) there is no way *any* of us can accurately ascertain or judge the
reality of situation between Matthew and his cats based on just 10 words
posted to Usenet

b) that I - based on all of Matthew's other posts over the years - can't
for a moment imagine Matthew doing anything to knowingly cause harm to
his cats, and

c) that you are entirely entitled to your opinion

sure, we can drop it.

attach: olive_branch.jpg

Yowie

On Sep 7, 2:33*am, CatNipped wrote:
On 9/7/2011 2:16 AM, Yowie wrote:





,
*typed:

*snip*

After posting the video showing that this milder form of remonstrance
works immediately and well and in a manner cats understand and
respect, he still insisted that yelling at cats and grabbing their
teeth is the way to handle the situation.

Thats not how I saw it.

Sorry, I *do* consider
that "bordering on abuse" - if it were not would "they hate that"
apply?

Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they hate the
feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why putting alfoil down on
a surface you don't want them on works, they hate loud hissing noises -
which is why an air can works, and apparently hate the smell of citrus -
which is why people recommend using citrus smell to deter cats. None of
which would be considered abusive. The question is one of /harm/ *- is the
cat being *harmed* by whatever it is Matthew is doing? I don't know for
sure, but I doubt it. using such a strong word as 'abuse' to express your
distaste of his cat training method smacks of a certain cat lady here who
would consider feeding cats generic supermarket cat food 'abuse' too.
Perhaps there are better ways of doing things, but not doing things the best
way is a long way from abuse.

Yowie

Ergo the use of "bordering on". *A *very* large grown man screaming and
grabbing at the teeth of a cat thirty five times plus smaller in size
and "rubbing back and forth" sounds violent to me - how much more
pressure might it take to break a tooth? *And in the face of being given
a not only gentler, but much more effect solution, he instead insisted
his bullying is the better solution. *Maybe having been the victim of a
somewhat similar situation makes me more sensitive to the implications
and feelings of the smaller creature, the fear this can invoke, makes my
stomach turn. *Again, that's my opinion and continuing to chastise me
for my opinion is not going to change it. *I ask again, can we
discontinue the conversation?

--
Hugs,

CatNipped

Oh, come ON. PLEASE. I had no intention of writing anything at all in
this
thread, but just please think about this for half a second.

You're talking about Matthew. MATTHEW of rpca for I-don't-know-how-
many-years.
Accusing him of not just abuse, but inferring VIOLENCE against any cat
is
way, way over the top drama. You don't like him, and that's fine, but
in your
heart of hearts you *know* Matthew's cats run all over him and he'd
spend
himself broke for them just like you or I.

Sherry

On Sep 5, 7:03*pm, (Michael Lane) wrote:
go to welding supply house, get set leather welding *sleeves, pull on
over arms cannot bite thru only 10.00
can take seam out use on legs, i have a TERROR , hopefully he be out
this soon, spank him but he likes it .

best regards,

Michael Lane


Welding gloves are indispensible for anybody, especially for anyone
who
handles strays sometimes. They're the next best thing to Kevlar gloves
that vets use, but those are terribly expensive.

Sherry

"Sherry" wrote in message
...
On Sep 5, 7:03 pm, (Michael Lane) wrote:
go to welding supply house, get set leather welding sleeves, pull on
over arms cannot bite thru only 10.00
can take seam out use on legs, i have a TERROR , hopefully he be out
this soon, spank him but he likes it .

best regards,

Michael Lane


Welding gloves are indispensible for anybody, especially for anyone
who
handles strays sometimes. They're the next best thing to Kevlar gloves
that vets use, but those are terribly expensive.

Sherry

The have some welding gloves that are tight fight not the bulky ones for
about $25

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
On 7/09/2011 5:33 PM, CatNipped wrote:
On 9/7/2011 2:16 AM, Yowie wrote:
In ,
typed:

*snip*

After posting the video showing that this milder form of remonstrance
works immediately and well and in a manner cats understand and
respect, he still insisted that yelling at cats and grabbing their
teeth is the way to handle the situation.

Thats not how I saw it.

Sorry, I *do* consider
that "bordering on abuse" - if it were not would "they hate that"
apply?

Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they hate
the
feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why putting alfoil
down on
a surface you don't want them on works, they hate loud hissing noises -
which is why an air can works, and apparently hate the smell of citrus -
which is why people recommend using citrus smell to deter cats. None of
which would be considered abusive. The question is one of /harm/ - is
the
cat being *harmed* by whatever it is Matthew is doing? I don't know for
sure, but I doubt it. using such a strong word as 'abuse' to express
your
distaste of his cat training method smacks of a certain cat lady here
who
would consider feeding cats generic supermarket cat food 'abuse' too.
Perhaps there are better ways of doing things, but not doing things
the best
way is a long way from abuse.

Yowie



Ergo the use of "bordering on". A *very* large grown man screaming and
grabbing at the teeth of a cat thirty five times plus smaller in size
and "rubbing back and forth" sounds violent to me - how much more
pressure might it take to break a tooth?

May I humbly suggest, given what you write below, that due to being a
victim of abuse yourself, you are reading much more into Matthew's words
(and creating a violent scene for yourself to judge by, such as you paint
above, based on that abuse) that doesn't match the mere 10 words he
actually wrote?

And in the face of being given
a not only gentler, but much more effect solution, he instead insisted
his bullying is the better solution

Matthew stated that a) he believes his method works, b) he sees no
evidence of his cats feeling abused when he does this and c) that he
doesn't think your method would work on his cats.

So far, it seems to be a difference of opinion on training methods to me.
YMMV.

Maybe having been the victim of a
somewhat similar situation makes me more sensitive to the implications
and feelings of the smaller creature, the fear this can invoke, makes my
stomach turn. Again, that's my opinion and continuing to chastise me for
my opinion is not going to change it. I ask again, can we discontinue
the conversation?

I'm not intending to 'chastise' *you* (you know I don't indulge in ad
hominem), I'm merely questioning whether using a word as strong as 'abuse'
was warranted, especially in a group that - quite demonstrably- descends
into a raging flame fest at the mere hint of potential animal abuse.

Tell you what, for the sake of the friendship that we both enjoy, if we
can agree that:

a) there is no way *any* of us can accurately ascertain or judge the
reality of situation between Matthew and his cats based on just 10 words
posted to Usenet

b) that I - based on all of Matthew's other posts over the years - can't
for a moment imagine Matthew doing anything to knowingly cause harm to his
cats, and

c) that you are entirely entitled to your opinion

sure, we can drop it.

attach: olive_branch.jpg

Yowie


Thank you Yowie,
I have in no way no how ever abuse or abused my cats or EVER WILL. I have
jammer laying on one of my arms. He was a rescue from a shelter from a lady
who had to give him up due to domestic violence and was abused himself.
This furball is a prince of his palace. The rest of the pack suffer also
from all the royal benefits of being pampered spoiled fur nuts. If this is
abuse from all being spoiled may I die a happy death like this ;-)

IMO Lori has a major mental problem ( has for years before her sickness)
and she will remain in my kill file no more chances. Her past events plus
this BS she pulled have led me to this permanent decision. I am sorry but
she is a drama queen and this group seems to be her attention play ground
sometimes. I had been nice before but she stays in the kill file there is
no forgiveness for her comments.

Yowie wrote:

Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they hate the
feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why putting alfoil down on
a surface you don't want them on works, they hate loud hissing noises -
which is why an air can works, and apparently hate the smell of citrus -
which is why people recommend using citrus smell to deter cats. None of

This is so amazing to me. You are not just a logical person, you also
always seem to have lists of examples to support your points, right at
your fingertips. I'm logical, too, so while I admire that in others,
it's not this total mystery to me - I understand how to do that. But
the ability to come up with so many specific details when needed always
impresses me, because it's so foreign to me.

Joyce

--
Hi, this is the Sylvia stress reduction hotline. At the sound of
the beep, repeat after me: "This week, let someone else strive for
excellence." -- Nicole Hollander

wrote:
Yowie wrote:

Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they
hate the feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why
putting alfoil down on a surface you don't want them on works, they
hate loud hissing noises - which is why an air can works, and
apparently hate the smell of citrus - which is why people recommend
using citrus smell to deter cats. None of

This is so amazing to me. You are not just a logical person, you also
always seem to have lists of examples to support your points, right at
your fingertips. I'm logical, too, so while I admire that in others,
it's not this total mystery to me - I understand how to do that. But
the ability to come up with so many specific details when needed
always impresses me, because it's so foreign to me.

*Blush*, gosh, thanks, Joyce.

Guess it comes with the job I do. I need to accrue a butt-load of facts that
all tell the same story before I can recommend any product that we've been
developing to go ahead to marketting based on its technical capabilities.
There's a whole raft of different properties it *must* have, as well as
whole other one where its *greatly desirable* to have (often direct
opposites of each other (eg, you can't have 'really glossy' and 'low glare'
at the same time, even though it would be very desirable to do both) and I
need to put them all together, explain them so that marketting people - not
techical people - can understand and convey to the customers, and then say,
'yup, its good to go', 'not quite there, but a tweak here and here shoudl
get you through' or 'go back to the drawing board'. So pulling a whole
bunch of different data out of my head to support the case is just what I
have to do, often on the fly.

But ask me where my keys are, or what I had for breakfast... I have no idea
:-)

Yowie

Yowie wrote:

On 7/09/2011 4:35 PM, wrote:
Yowie wrote:

typed:

Yowie wrote:

Yowie
(anti-pitchfork since '98)

What happened *before* '98, that's what I want to know.

I wasn't posting on Usenet?g,d&r

Newbie!

Joyce - posting on Usenet since 1988

I am suitably humbled in the presence of an Elder ;-P

Thank you. I might as well get something out of being an old fart!

Joyce

--
- Your mom and I are going to divorce next month.
- What??? Why! Call me please?
- I wrote Disney and this phone changed it. We are going to Disney.
-- damnyouautocorrect.com

Yowie wrote:

wrote:
Yowie wrote:

Cats also hate getting wet - whcih is why a water gun works, they
hate the feel of alumnium foil under their paws - which is why
putting alfoil down on a surface you don't want them on works, they
hate loud hissing noises - which is why an air can works, and
apparently hate the smell of citrus - which is why people recommend
using citrus smell to deter cats. None of

This is so amazing to me. You are not just a logical person, you also
always seem to have lists of examples to support your points, right at
your fingertips. I'm logical, too, so while I admire that in others,
it's not this total mystery to me - I understand how to do that. But
the ability to come up with so many specific details when needed
always impresses me, because it's so foreign to me.

*Blush*, gosh, thanks, Joyce.

Guess it comes with the job I do. I need to accrue a butt-load of facts that
all tell the same story before I can recommend any product that we've been
developing to go ahead to marketting based on its technical capabilities.
There's a whole raft of different properties it *must* have, as well as
whole other one where its *greatly desirable* to have (often direct
opposites of each other (eg, you can't have 'really glossy' and 'low glare'
at the same time, even though it would be very desirable to do both) and I
need to put them all together, explain them so that marketting people - not
techical people - can understand and convey to the customers, and then say,
'yup, its good to go', 'not quite there, but a tweak here and here shoudl
get you through' or 'go back to the drawing board'. So pulling a whole
bunch of different data out of my head to support the case is just what I
have to do, often on the fly.

It sounds like your work lets you practice those skills, but if you
hadn't had some of that to begin with, you probably wouldn't have ended
up in a science field.

I'm one of those people who, if I'm holding a guitar while at a gathering,
and someone says, "Hey, Joyce, play something for us", my mind goes totally
blank. Sorry, I don't know any songs. Yeah, right. I know tons of songs.
But not when I really *need* to know them.

Similarly, when I'm in a disagreement with someone, although I can make
arguments that sound good, in that they're logical and they make sense,
I can never remember the facts that would also substantiate the argument
as *correct*. Then I kick myself later as I start remembering stuff, when
it's too late.

What does your company make, anyway? Paint?

Joyce

--
- Your mom and I are going to divorce next month.
- What??? Why! Call me please?
- I wrote Disney and this phone changed it. We are going to Disney.
-- damnyouautocorrect.com

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
In ,
CatNipped typed:

*snip*

yell at their cats and grab their teeth to "rub back and forth",
that's bordering on abuse and I won't ignore that. Watch the video I
posted if you have any doubts about what I recommend working. I've
never, ever had it fail on any cat, mine or others. Don't bother
responding, I won't see it.

Oh come on Lori, whilst yelling 'Ow Ow Ow' and grabbing at their teeth (if
they're biting) may not necessarily be 'best' way to stop a cat from being
too rough, in your opinion, and it may not be the way *you* would choose
to do it, but its hardly *abuse*

(major snippage)

Reminds me of the time when folks were about to call the authorities of
Kili's husband for allowing Kili's cats outside and calling one of them a
'retard'. No, its not the relentlessly-spoiled-and-woshipped-on-a-pedestal
treatment "we" give "our cats", but was it actual *abuse*? Not even close.

Yowie
(anti-pitchfork since '98)

Hot Button! There was a big difference with Kili's cats. She was a very
dear personal friend of mine, not just on this group but in real life. I
know for a fact she did NOT want those cats to be outdoor cats. She told me
on the phone she was worried about what would happen to them after she died.
She went to great lengths to make them indoor only cats and sacrificed a lot
of personal comforts to ensure they had the best care and treatment.
Remember all the trouble she went through to get rid of the ringworms Ms.
Pua had? And yet the moment she died her husband put all the cats outside.
Pretty much left them to fend for themselves. Now I see him posting to
rec.food.cooking and he mentions his "one cat". Who knows what happened to
the rest of her precious cats. So PLEASE don't compare this to that. It's
not remotely the same issue.

I don't see why you need to grab a kitten's teeth if they're biting you or
playing too rough. IMHO Lori's video demonstrated an excellent and
effective way to deal with the problem.

Jill