Thanks for ringworm advice; second question...

Thank you for taking time to reply to this question. I will look for
the lime sulphur dip. Impossible to isolate the kitten , so should I
dip all the cats in the group?
This sounds like a much bigger problem than I would have
guessed! This kitten had been stuck in a tree for 2-3 days and was
dehydrated and starving. We fed her baby "gruel" for the first 24
hours and when she could stand to eat, she began to snap back fairly
quickly. It has been almost a week and she is sleeping and eating
normally now, but do you think it's safe to dip her now?

"Bev Lange" wrote in message
news
Thank you for taking time to reply to this question. I will look for
the lime sulphur dip. Impossible to isolate the kitten , so should I
dip all the cats in the group?
This sounds like a much bigger problem than I would have
guessed! This kitten had been stuck in a tree for 2-3 days and was
dehydrated and starving. We fed her baby "gruel" for the first 24
hours and when she could stand to eat, she began to snap back fairly
quickly. It has been almost a week and she is sleeping and eating
normally now, but do you think it's safe to dip her now?

If you can't isolate the kitten, you're going to have an outbreak on your
hands, including yourself. This is SERIOUS. If you can't isolate the
kitten, *and* perform all of the fungal culture tests necessary to determine
the kitten is legally free of ringworm once the treatment is over, then
euthanize him. Yes, that sounds cruel. But, it's realistic. You're
talking 6-8 weeks of isolation for the cure, and to document the cure. If
your group can't afford medication to treat a ringworm outbreak, can it
afford the lawsuit that comes your way when one of your cats goes into a
home carrying the ringworm fungus and infects a family? Just because the
lesion heals, doesn't mean the cat can't infect other cats or humans. If
your group can't afford to test the animals to be sure that they're really
cured and not just asymptomatic, then you've just effectively adopted the
whole litter permanantly. Do you want to add that many cats to your home?
ANd, you can't foster animals any more because your home is now a haven of
spores to infect other cats. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is
not the "nuisance" that it is in a privately owned pet. It's one of the few
zoonotic diseases, and as such, must be treated with a gread deal more
caution in regards to covering your ass and public relations than even a
calici outbreak. Calici can't be transmitted to humans. And some humans
are so quick to call their lawyers if they get a hangnail, that shelters
can't afford to not fully document a ringworm cure. And, if you just don't
tell the potential adoptor about the cat's medical history, you could be in
for an even worse damage award, or get shut down because of deceptive
business practices.

I'll repeat it again. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is a
SERIOUS matter, and not the "nuisance" that it can be in privately owned
pets.

"Bev Lange" wrote in message
news
Thank you for taking time to reply to this question. I will look for
the lime sulphur dip. Impossible to isolate the kitten , so should I
dip all the cats in the group?
This sounds like a much bigger problem than I would have
guessed! This kitten had been stuck in a tree for 2-3 days and was
dehydrated and starving. We fed her baby "gruel" for the first 24
hours and when she could stand to eat, she began to snap back fairly
quickly. It has been almost a week and she is sleeping and eating
normally now, but do you think it's safe to dip her now?

If you can't isolate the kitten, you're going to have an outbreak on your
hands, including yourself. This is SERIOUS. If you can't isolate the
kitten, *and* perform all of the fungal culture tests necessary to determine
the kitten is legally free of ringworm once the treatment is over, then
euthanize him. Yes, that sounds cruel. But, it's realistic. You're
talking 6-8 weeks of isolation for the cure, and to document the cure. If
your group can't afford medication to treat a ringworm outbreak, can it
afford the lawsuit that comes your way when one of your cats goes into a
home carrying the ringworm fungus and infects a family? Just because the
lesion heals, doesn't mean the cat can't infect other cats or humans. If
your group can't afford to test the animals to be sure that they're really
cured and not just asymptomatic, then you've just effectively adopted the
whole litter permanantly. Do you want to add that many cats to your home?
ANd, you can't foster animals any more because your home is now a haven of
spores to infect other cats. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is
not the "nuisance" that it is in a privately owned pet. It's one of the few
zoonotic diseases, and as such, must be treated with a gread deal more
caution in regards to covering your ass and public relations than even a
calici outbreak. Calici can't be transmitted to humans. And some humans
are so quick to call their lawyers if they get a hangnail, that shelters
can't afford to not fully document a ringworm cure. And, if you just don't
tell the potential adoptor about the cat's medical history, you could be in
for an even worse damage award, or get shut down because of deceptive
business practices.

I'll repeat it again. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is a
SERIOUS matter, and not the "nuisance" that it can be in privately owned
pets.

Sunflower wrote:
"Bev Lange" wrote in message
news
Thank you for taking time to reply to this question. I will look
for the lime sulphur dip. Impossible to isolate the kitten , so should I
dip all the cats in the group?
This sounds like a much bigger problem than I would have
guessed! This kitten had been stuck in a tree for 2-3 days and was
dehydrated and starving. We fed her baby "gruel" for the first 24
hours and when she could stand to eat, she began to snap back fairly
quickly. It has been almost a week and she is sleeping and eating
normally now, but do you think it's safe to dip her now?

If you can't isolate the kitten, you're going to have an outbreak on
your hands, including yourself. This is SERIOUS. If you can't
isolate the kitten, *and* perform all of the fungal culture tests
necessary to determine the kitten is legally free of ringworm once
the treatment is over, then euthanize him. Yes, that sounds cruel. But,
it's realistic. You're talking 6-8 weeks of isolation for the
cure, and to document the cure. If your group can't afford medication
to treat a ringworm outbreak, can it afford the lawsuit that comes
your way when one of your cats goes into a home carrying the ringworm
fungus and infects a family?

Lawsuit?!?!?! from a ringowrm "outbreak"???? geez

And to tell a person to "euthanize" a cat/kitten foa a fungus...

Just because the lesion heals, doesn't
mean the cat can't infect other cats or humans. If your group can't
afford to test the animals to be sure that they're really cured and
not just asymptomatic, then you've just effectively adopted the whole
litter permanantly. Do you want to add that many cats to your home?
ANd, you can't foster animals any more because your home is now a
haven of spores to infect other cats. Ringworm in a shelter or foster
situation is not the "nuisance" that it is in a privately owned pet. It's
one of the few zoonotic diseases, and as such, must be treated
with a gread deal more caution in regards to covering your ass and
public relations than even a calici outbreak. Calici can't be
transmitted to humans. And some humans are so quick to call their
lawyers if they get a hangnail, that shelters can't afford to not
fully document a ringworm cure. And, if you just don't tell the
potential adoptor about the cat's medical history, you could be in
for an even worse damage award, or get shut down because of deceptive
business practices.

Talk about frivolous lawsuits....

I'll repeat it again. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is a
SERIOUS matter, and not the "nuisance" that it can be in privately
owned pets.


It's NOT THAT SERIOUS!!!!!

Ringworm is a FUNGUS. It is found in EVERYWHERE since it spores just like
mold and mildew do, just prefers to grow on living flesh instead of we damp
cardboard or other surface. It is easily treatable. I took in 4 kittens
earlier this year - one of them caught ringworm, then the other 3. NONE -
ABSOLUTELY NONE of my adult cats got it.

I got ended up getting it in 4 places, but I could treat myself with
over-the-counter Athletes Foot Fungus treatments (Lotrimin cream worked
best, when applied under a band-aid to keep it 'fresh' and undisturbed), and
treated the kittens with Lym-sulfer "dip" (actuallym we sprayed it on them,
concentrating on the lesions). That was six months ago. Not a speck seen
of it since.

I might add that kittens are more susceptible than adult cats, and mine
caught it as they were taken away from their mother at an early age, and
were thusly stressed - *I* caught as I was stressed by lack of sleep, having
to wake every 3 hours to feed & care for the kittens.
--?
The ONE and ONLY
lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy
former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)© email me at
nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com
http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep

Sunflower wrote:
"Bev Lange" wrote in message
news
Thank you for taking time to reply to this question. I will look
for the lime sulphur dip. Impossible to isolate the kitten , so should I
dip all the cats in the group?
This sounds like a much bigger problem than I would have
guessed! This kitten had been stuck in a tree for 2-3 days and was
dehydrated and starving. We fed her baby "gruel" for the first 24
hours and when she could stand to eat, she began to snap back fairly
quickly. It has been almost a week and she is sleeping and eating
normally now, but do you think it's safe to dip her now?

If you can't isolate the kitten, you're going to have an outbreak on
your hands, including yourself. This is SERIOUS. If you can't
isolate the kitten, *and* perform all of the fungal culture tests
necessary to determine the kitten is legally free of ringworm once
the treatment is over, then euthanize him. Yes, that sounds cruel. But,
it's realistic. You're talking 6-8 weeks of isolation for the
cure, and to document the cure. If your group can't afford medication
to treat a ringworm outbreak, can it afford the lawsuit that comes
your way when one of your cats goes into a home carrying the ringworm
fungus and infects a family?

Lawsuit?!?!?! from a ringowrm "outbreak"???? geez

And to tell a person to "euthanize" a cat/kitten foa a fungus...

Just because the lesion heals, doesn't
mean the cat can't infect other cats or humans. If your group can't
afford to test the animals to be sure that they're really cured and
not just asymptomatic, then you've just effectively adopted the whole
litter permanantly. Do you want to add that many cats to your home?
ANd, you can't foster animals any more because your home is now a
haven of spores to infect other cats. Ringworm in a shelter or foster
situation is not the "nuisance" that it is in a privately owned pet. It's
one of the few zoonotic diseases, and as such, must be treated
with a gread deal more caution in regards to covering your ass and
public relations than even a calici outbreak. Calici can't be
transmitted to humans. And some humans are so quick to call their
lawyers if they get a hangnail, that shelters can't afford to not
fully document a ringworm cure. And, if you just don't tell the
potential adoptor about the cat's medical history, you could be in
for an even worse damage award, or get shut down because of deceptive
business practices.

Talk about frivolous lawsuits....

I'll repeat it again. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is a
SERIOUS matter, and not the "nuisance" that it can be in privately
owned pets.


It's NOT THAT SERIOUS!!!!!

Ringworm is a FUNGUS. It is found in EVERYWHERE since it spores just like
mold and mildew do, just prefers to grow on living flesh instead of we damp
cardboard or other surface. It is easily treatable. I took in 4 kittens
earlier this year - one of them caught ringworm, then the other 3. NONE -
ABSOLUTELY NONE of my adult cats got it.

I got ended up getting it in 4 places, but I could treat myself with
over-the-counter Athletes Foot Fungus treatments (Lotrimin cream worked
best, when applied under a band-aid to keep it 'fresh' and undisturbed), and
treated the kittens with Lym-sulfer "dip" (actuallym we sprayed it on them,
concentrating on the lesions). That was six months ago. Not a speck seen
of it since.

I might add that kittens are more susceptible than adult cats, and mine
caught it as they were taken away from their mother at an early age, and
were thusly stressed - *I* caught as I was stressed by lack of sleep, having
to wake every 3 hours to feed & care for the kittens.
--?
The ONE and ONLY
lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy
former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)© email me at
nalee1964 (at) insightbb (dot) com
http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep

in article , Sunflower at
wrote on 10/26/04 11:21AM:


"Bev Lange" wrote in message
news
Thank you for taking time to reply to this question. I will look for
the lime sulphur dip. Impossible to isolate the kitten , so should I
dip all the cats in the group?
This sounds like a much bigger problem than I would have
guessed! This kitten had been stuck in a tree for 2-3 days and was
dehydrated and starving. We fed her baby "gruel" for the first 24
hours and when she could stand to eat, she began to snap back fairly
quickly. It has been almost a week and she is sleeping and eating
normally now, but do you think it's safe to dip her now?

If you can't isolate the kitten, you're going to have an outbreak on your
hands, including yourself. This is SERIOUS. If you can't isolate the
kitten, *and* perform all of the fungal culture tests necessary to determine
the kitten is legally free of ringworm once the treatment is over, then
euthanize him. Yes, that sounds cruel. But, it's realistic. You're
talking 6-8 weeks of isolation for the cure, and to document the cure. If
your group can't afford medication to treat a ringworm outbreak, can it
afford the lawsuit that comes your way when one of your cats goes into a
home carrying the ringworm fungus and infects a family? Just because the
lesion heals, doesn't mean the cat can't infect other cats or humans. If
your group can't afford to test the animals to be sure that they're really
cured and not just asymptomatic, then you've just effectively adopted the
whole litter permanantly. Do you want to add that many cats to your home?
ANd, you can't foster animals any more because your home is now a haven of
spores to infect other cats. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is
not the "nuisance" that it is in a privately owned pet. It's one of the few
zoonotic diseases, and as such, must be treated with a gread deal more
caution in regards to covering your ass and public relations than even a
calici outbreak. Calici can't be transmitted to humans. And some humans
are so quick to call their lawyers if they get a hangnail, that shelters
can't afford to not fully document a ringworm cure. And, if you just don't
tell the potential adoptor about the cat's medical history, you could be in
for an even worse damage award, or get shut down because of deceptive
business practices.

I'll repeat it again. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is a
SERIOUS matter, and not the "nuisance" that it can be in privately owned
pets.


You seem to be a bit of an alarmist. My God, if you euthanized every cat
that ever had ringworm, we could definitely solve the overpopulation
problem. *Ocassionally* an outbreak can be serious but usually the animal or
humans involved must have a very supressed immune system. Yeesh.

in article , Sunflower at
wrote on 10/26/04 11:21AM:


"Bev Lange" wrote in message
news
Thank you for taking time to reply to this question. I will look for
the lime sulphur dip. Impossible to isolate the kitten , so should I
dip all the cats in the group?
This sounds like a much bigger problem than I would have
guessed! This kitten had been stuck in a tree for 2-3 days and was
dehydrated and starving. We fed her baby "gruel" for the first 24
hours and when she could stand to eat, she began to snap back fairly
quickly. It has been almost a week and she is sleeping and eating
normally now, but do you think it's safe to dip her now?

If you can't isolate the kitten, you're going to have an outbreak on your
hands, including yourself. This is SERIOUS. If you can't isolate the
kitten, *and* perform all of the fungal culture tests necessary to determine
the kitten is legally free of ringworm once the treatment is over, then
euthanize him. Yes, that sounds cruel. But, it's realistic. You're
talking 6-8 weeks of isolation for the cure, and to document the cure. If
your group can't afford medication to treat a ringworm outbreak, can it
afford the lawsuit that comes your way when one of your cats goes into a
home carrying the ringworm fungus and infects a family? Just because the
lesion heals, doesn't mean the cat can't infect other cats or humans. If
your group can't afford to test the animals to be sure that they're really
cured and not just asymptomatic, then you've just effectively adopted the
whole litter permanantly. Do you want to add that many cats to your home?
ANd, you can't foster animals any more because your home is now a haven of
spores to infect other cats. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is
not the "nuisance" that it is in a privately owned pet. It's one of the few
zoonotic diseases, and as such, must be treated with a gread deal more
caution in regards to covering your ass and public relations than even a
calici outbreak. Calici can't be transmitted to humans. And some humans
are so quick to call their lawyers if they get a hangnail, that shelters
can't afford to not fully document a ringworm cure. And, if you just don't
tell the potential adoptor about the cat's medical history, you could be in
for an even worse damage award, or get shut down because of deceptive
business practices.

I'll repeat it again. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is a
SERIOUS matter, and not the "nuisance" that it can be in privately owned
pets.


You seem to be a bit of an alarmist. My God, if you euthanized every cat
that ever had ringworm, we could definitely solve the overpopulation
problem. *Ocassionally* an outbreak can be serious but usually the animal or
humans involved must have a very supressed immune system. Yeesh.

in article , Bev Lange at
wrote on 10/26/04 8:18AM:

Thank you for taking time to reply to this question. I will look for
the lime sulphur dip. Impossible to isolate the kitten , so should I
dip all the cats in the group?
This sounds like a much bigger problem than I would have
guessed! This kitten had been stuck in a tree for 2-3 days and was
dehydrated and starving. We fed her baby "gruel" for the first 24
hours and when she could stand to eat, she began to snap back fairly
quickly. It has been almost a week and she is sleeping and eating
normally now, but do you think it's safe to dip her now?

I guess I missed the first post, but have you not seen a vet? When I got
Sugar and Grant they had ringworm, but the vet gave me a cream to put on
their spots and though it took a while, it worked. I got maybe two spots but
then they had slept on me before I got them vetted. Adult cats should have a
good enough immune system to resist. The bottle I got from the vet was
barely used by the time the cats got over their ringworm. It would have been
enough to do a dozen cats.

in article , Bev Lange at
wrote on 10/26/04 8:18AM:

Thank you for taking time to reply to this question. I will look for
the lime sulphur dip. Impossible to isolate the kitten , so should I
dip all the cats in the group?
This sounds like a much bigger problem than I would have
guessed! This kitten had been stuck in a tree for 2-3 days and was
dehydrated and starving. We fed her baby "gruel" for the first 24
hours and when she could stand to eat, she began to snap back fairly
quickly. It has been almost a week and she is sleeping and eating
normally now, but do you think it's safe to dip her now?

I guess I missed the first post, but have you not seen a vet? When I got
Sugar and Grant they had ringworm, but the vet gave me a cream to put on
their spots and though it took a while, it worked. I got maybe two spots but
then they had slept on me before I got them vetted. Adult cats should have a
good enough immune system to resist. The bottle I got from the vet was
barely used by the time the cats got over their ringworm. It would have been
enough to do a dozen cats.

"Sunflower" wrote in message
...

"Bev Lange" wrote in message
news
Thank you for taking time to reply to this question. I will look for
the lime sulphur dip. Impossible to isolate the kitten , so should I
dip all the cats in the group?
This sounds like a much bigger problem than I would have
guessed! This kitten had been stuck in a tree for 2-3 days and was
dehydrated and starving. We fed her baby "gruel" for the first 24
hours and when she could stand to eat, she began to snap back fairly
quickly. It has been almost a week and she is sleeping and eating
normally now, but do you think it's safe to dip her now?

If you can't isolate the kitten, you're going to have an outbreak on your
hands, including yourself. This is SERIOUS. If you can't isolate the
kitten, *and* perform all of the fungal culture tests necessary to
determine the kitten is legally free of ringworm once the treatment is
over, then euthanize him. Yes, that sounds cruel. But, it's realistic.
You're talking 6-8 weeks of isolation for the cure, and to document the
cure. If your group can't afford medication to treat a ringworm outbreak,
can it afford the lawsuit that comes your way when one of your cats goes
into a home carrying the ringworm fungus and infects a family? Just
because the lesion heals, doesn't mean the cat can't infect other cats or
humans. If your group can't afford to test the animals to be sure that
they're really cured and not just asymptomatic, then you've just
effectively adopted the whole litter permanantly. Do you want to add that
many cats to your home? ANd, you can't foster animals any more because
your home is now a haven of spores to infect other cats. Ringworm in a
shelter or foster situation is not the "nuisance" that it is in a
privately owned pet. It's one of the few zoonotic diseases, and as such,
must be treated with a gread deal more caution in regards to covering your
ass and public relations than even a calici outbreak. Calici can't be
transmitted to humans. And some humans are so quick to call their lawyers
if they get a hangnail, that shelters can't afford to not fully document a
ringworm cure. And, if you just don't tell the potential adoptor about
the cat's medical history, you could be in for an even worse damage award,
or get shut down because of deceptive business practices.

I'll repeat it again. Ringworm in a shelter or foster situation is a
SERIOUS matter, and not the "nuisance" that it can be in privately owned
pets.


For any that think I'm alarmist, have you read Kate Hurley's recommendations
and protocols and proceedures at ShelterVet, which is partially made
possible by Maddie's Fund?
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/CCAH/P...s/ringworm.pdf Read
it. Understand it. This is the distillation of many many years of shelter
experience. She and Lila Miller are co-authors of the new Shelter Medicine
textbook, and Kate holds the Chair in Shelter Medicine at UC Davis. It's
one of the first universities that is even recognizing that shelter medicine
is different than individual animal medicine. SHelter medicine, and by it's
extension, foster animal medicine, is a *herd health* situation, and
protocols and proceedures are different than they are in a privately owned
animal situation. It's not at all alarmist to think of the possibility of a
whole shelter being infected, nor losing your volunteers over them becoming
infected, nor being served with a lawsuit because of an adoption of a
ringworm carrier. It's happened before.

We had 70% of our shelter cats infected because we had no real isolation
area, and there were no foster families willing to take in a cat that would
possibly infect their family, much less adoptors. We lost a huge percentage
of our volunteer base because some members told them to "not worry about it,
it's not serious" and they took ringworm home to their families. We had one
volunteer become infected so badly that she had an almost $10K medical bill.
She still has the scars. Thank goodness she didn't sue us! She very well
could have, and she'd have won. Just a judgement paying the $10K medical
bill would have bankrupted us, much less the punitive damages. And there
would have been those for sure, because the seriousness and contagiousness
of the ringworm outbreak was minimized. And more and more people are far
happier to contact their lawyer as a first response.

The infected cats, which some members insisted be saved, were placed in an
unairconditioned metal building In August with just a fan on them and given
Program and no other treatment. No other treatment, because volunteers
could not be found to take care of them, much less dip them. People who had
handled ringworm in one of their own pets wouldn't even volunteer because of
the communicability issue. Even the folks who insisted that they be saved
wouldn't clean their cages and give them water. It would have been far more
humane to euthanize them in the first place. But, they kept them there for
7 weeks with only one person providing minimal care. If it had been a
cruelty case call, we'd have taken such offenders to court. And, the
lesions weren't healing, and they had new ones. Any cat still in the main
building that developed lesions was immediately transferred to the "hot
box". In the end, these cats were torutured 7 long weeks by people with
"good intentions" but no real assessment of the seriousness of the
situation. The City which owns the facility, finally stepped in and had
them euthanized. I still can't forget what was done to these animals in the
name of being "humane".

If a rescue doesn't have the resources to fully deal with a ringworm
outbreak, then they shouldn't try to. Yes, that does mean euthanizing some
animals. Better to euthanize a few than almost a whole shelter full. If a
rescue can't afford the minimum 6-8 weeks for a cure, then don't torture the
animals. If a rescue can't afford the culture tests to certify that any
past infected cats are not infected or are not carriers, then they shouldn't
attempt to treat the ringworm in the first place. It's sad to euthanize
animals, but the sad truth is that there are always more to take their
place, and even though ringworm may be "minor" in a home situation, it's
certainly NOT in a shelter situation, and epidemic protocols of euthanizing
any affected animal should be in place if the financial resources are not
there to treat the outbreak appropriately.

The OP indicated that her rescue didn't have the money for even a vet visit
to perform an initial culture test to decide if the lesion actually was
ringworm. That's a big factor in my recommendation to euthanize before the
other animals became infected. She cannot provide isolation. Ditto. In
her situation, finances and surroundings dictate the action. If her rescue
can't afford to deal with the problem properly, then hard choices have to be
made. Or lawsuit happy folks will be happy to make them for you as they
close the shelter down permanantly.