Outside of the box

Hi All

Instead of thinking outside of the box, my 8-year-old neutered male cat
Freddie has the habit of poohing outside of the box. For almost two years
now, he has been doing it. At first, I thought it was because I had gone
back to work (I had been unemployed for several months). He started by doing
it on my fuzzy green bathmat (which isn't quite so fuzzy now!). Since then,
it has spread to other fuzzies or towels in the bathroom, or worse, in my
bed. It was always pooh, pee went in the box. But now, he has also peed in
the bed twice in the last two months.

I'll take responsibility for the second pee episode, as I had forgotten to
clean out the box in the last 36 hours. But, he has been using the same
litter for years now (I tried changing from wheat to corn, but that doesn't
seem to matter, so I went back to wheat, and the changes didn't make a
difference). I clean the box once or twice a day. I have also tried a bigger
litter box, and a separate litter box (I also have a 5 year old female,
Skooter). The two cats have grown up together, and are best friends, eating
and sleeping together. I try to give them equal time, although Skooter does
like to butt in. The only thing I can think of is that Skooter is
leash-friendly, and he often left us a present to be found when we returned
from our walkies. I also tried Freddie on a leash, taking him outside
outside a couple of time, but since he is terrified of the outside world (I
suspect he had been abused before I got him from the Humane Society), he
just shudders and shakes and shreds me. So, I am going to assume it is
probably jealousy and/or anger at me -- like, if I stay out longer than he
thinks I should (maybe I should call him "Mother"?) Oh yes, the vet has
examined him thoroughly a couple of times, and no problem. Anal glands don't
seem to be involved.

I have no intentions of sending him to the great beyond for this problem,
although in the heat of the moment I wonder. We have sort of made a deal -
it is ok to poo on the bathmat or toilet seat cover. Them I can wash, and
get replacements at the dollar store. I also put a shower curtain liner
(dollar store again) on the bed. But if I forget, like today, I am often the
recipient of little brown presents at bed time, like tonight! Ok ok, so I
forget to tell him I was going to be out for a few hours.

So, anybody want to offer any wisdom?

Thanks
Pat

PS - Found some good stuff for cleaning up after cat pee - Urine-Erase,
from Reidell (made in Canada) Actually smells good. And in case you are
wondering, I flipped the mattress after the first time, so I don't think
(ok, I hope) that that wasn't the reason for episode 2.

Although probably behavioral, get him a vet appt. fore the peeing incidents,
just in case it's actually medical - a UTI. In which case a round or two of
antibiotic(s) will clear up that problem. A cat w/ a UTI will often pee on
a soft surface.

For pooping outside the box (& maybe the peeing), try lining up 2 - 3 boxes
in a row where his present one is, & then maybe one other box in another
part of the house. Some cats prefer to use more than one box. If you use
scoopable litter, it should be easy to keep them scooped out a couple of
times/day, & therefore clean & more inviting to the cat.

Cathy

"Pat" wrote in message
...
Hi All

Instead of thinking outside of the box, my 8-year-old neutered male cat
Freddie has the habit of poohing outside of the box. For almost two years
now, he has been doing it. At first, I thought it was because I had gone
back to work (I had been unemployed for several months). He started by
doing
it on my fuzzy green bathmat (which isn't quite so fuzzy now!). Since
then,
it has spread to other fuzzies or towels in the bathroom, or worse, in my
bed. It was always pooh, pee went in the box. But now, he has also peed in
the bed twice in the last two months.

I'll take responsibility for the second pee episode, as I had forgotten to
clean out the box in the last 36 hours. But, he has been using the same
litter for years now (I tried changing from wheat to corn, but that
doesn't
seem to matter, so I went back to wheat, and the changes didn't make a
difference). I clean the box once or twice a day. I have also tried a
bigger
litter box, and a separate litter box (I also have a 5 year old female,
Skooter). The two cats have grown up together, and are best friends,
eating
and sleeping together. I try to give them equal time, although Skooter
does
like to butt in. The only thing I can think of is that Skooter is
leash-friendly, and he often left us a present to be found when we
returned
from our walkies. I also tried Freddie on a leash, taking him outside
outside a couple of time, but since he is terrified of the outside world
(I
suspect he had been abused before I got him from the Humane Society), he
just shudders and shakes and shreds me. So, I am going to assume it is
probably jealousy and/or anger at me -- like, if I stay out longer than he
thinks I should (maybe I should call him "Mother"?) Oh yes, the vet has
examined him thoroughly a couple of times, and no problem. Anal glands
don't
seem to be involved.

I have no intentions of sending him to the great beyond for this problem,
although in the heat of the moment I wonder. We have sort of made a deal -
it is ok to poo on the bathmat or toilet seat cover. Them I can wash, and
get replacements at the dollar store. I also put a shower curtain liner
(dollar store again) on the bed. But if I forget, like today, I am often
the
recipient of little brown presents at bed time, like tonight! Ok ok, so I
forget to tell him I was going to be out for a few hours.

So, anybody want to offer any wisdom?

Thanks
Pat

PS - Found some good stuff for cleaning up after cat pee - Urine-Erase,
from Reidell (made in Canada) Actually smells good. And in case you are
wondering, I flipped the mattress after the first time, so I don't think
(ok, I hope) that that wasn't the reason for episode 2.

Although probably behavioral, get him a vet appt. fore the peeing incidents,
just in case it's actually medical - a UTI. In which case a round or two of
antibiotic(s) will clear up that problem. A cat w/ a UTI will often pee on
a soft surface.

For pooping outside the box (& maybe the peeing), try lining up 2 - 3 boxes
in a row where his present one is, & then maybe one other box in another
part of the house. Some cats prefer to use more than one box. If you use
scoopable litter, it should be easy to keep them scooped out a couple of
times/day, & therefore clean & more inviting to the cat.

Cathy

"Pat" wrote in message
...
Hi All

Instead of thinking outside of the box, my 8-year-old neutered male cat
Freddie has the habit of poohing outside of the box. For almost two years
now, he has been doing it. At first, I thought it was because I had gone
back to work (I had been unemployed for several months). He started by
doing
it on my fuzzy green bathmat (which isn't quite so fuzzy now!). Since
then,
it has spread to other fuzzies or towels in the bathroom, or worse, in my
bed. It was always pooh, pee went in the box. But now, he has also peed in
the bed twice in the last two months.

I'll take responsibility for the second pee episode, as I had forgotten to
clean out the box in the last 36 hours. But, he has been using the same
litter for years now (I tried changing from wheat to corn, but that
doesn't
seem to matter, so I went back to wheat, and the changes didn't make a
difference). I clean the box once or twice a day. I have also tried a
bigger
litter box, and a separate litter box (I also have a 5 year old female,
Skooter). The two cats have grown up together, and are best friends,
eating
and sleeping together. I try to give them equal time, although Skooter
does
like to butt in. The only thing I can think of is that Skooter is
leash-friendly, and he often left us a present to be found when we
returned
from our walkies. I also tried Freddie on a leash, taking him outside
outside a couple of time, but since he is terrified of the outside world
(I
suspect he had been abused before I got him from the Humane Society), he
just shudders and shakes and shreds me. So, I am going to assume it is
probably jealousy and/or anger at me -- like, if I stay out longer than he
thinks I should (maybe I should call him "Mother"?) Oh yes, the vet has
examined him thoroughly a couple of times, and no problem. Anal glands
don't
seem to be involved.

I have no intentions of sending him to the great beyond for this problem,
although in the heat of the moment I wonder. We have sort of made a deal -
it is ok to poo on the bathmat or toilet seat cover. Them I can wash, and
get replacements at the dollar store. I also put a shower curtain liner
(dollar store again) on the bed. But if I forget, like today, I am often
the
recipient of little brown presents at bed time, like tonight! Ok ok, so I
forget to tell him I was going to be out for a few hours.

So, anybody want to offer any wisdom?

Thanks
Pat

PS - Found some good stuff for cleaning up after cat pee - Urine-Erase,
from Reidell (made in Canada) Actually smells good. And in case you are
wondering, I flipped the mattress after the first time, so I don't think
(ok, I hope) that that wasn't the reason for episode 2.

"Pat" wrote in message ...
Hi All

Instead of thinking outside of the box, my 8-year-old neutered male cat
Freddie has the habit of poohing outside of the box. For almost two years
now, he has been doing it. At first, I thought it was because I had gone
back to work (I had been unemployed for several months). He started by doing
it on my fuzzy green bathmat (which isn't quite so fuzzy now!). Since then,
it has spread to other fuzzies or towels in the bathroom, or worse, in my
bed. It was always pooh, pee went in the box. But now, he has also peed in
the bed twice in the last two months.
snip

Sounds like a trip to the vet is required. In my experience, when an
older cat who used the box properly for most of it's life starts doing
otherwise, it is their way to tell you they are hurting in some way.
Hopefully it is a UTI or something else treat-able. Unfortunately, we
had two littermates who developed the cat equivalent of Crohns disease
(a very painful bowel disorder) and the situation just got worse and
worse. They eventually lost control of their bowels completely, and
were in such obvious pain they had to be put down. Nothing the vets
could think of helped.

If your cat has been doing this for two years now, you could be
missing out on your launch window to get him medical help. Don't wait
much longer!

dragon

"Pat" wrote in message ...
Hi All

Instead of thinking outside of the box, my 8-year-old neutered male cat
Freddie has the habit of poohing outside of the box. For almost two years
now, he has been doing it. At first, I thought it was because I had gone
back to work (I had been unemployed for several months). He started by doing
it on my fuzzy green bathmat (which isn't quite so fuzzy now!). Since then,
it has spread to other fuzzies or towels in the bathroom, or worse, in my
bed. It was always pooh, pee went in the box. But now, he has also peed in
the bed twice in the last two months.
snip

Sounds like a trip to the vet is required. In my experience, when an
older cat who used the box properly for most of it's life starts doing
otherwise, it is their way to tell you they are hurting in some way.
Hopefully it is a UTI or something else treat-able. Unfortunately, we
had two littermates who developed the cat equivalent of Crohns disease
(a very painful bowel disorder) and the situation just got worse and
worse. They eventually lost control of their bowels completely, and
were in such obvious pain they had to be put down. Nothing the vets
could think of helped.

If your cat has been doing this for two years now, you could be
missing out on your launch window to get him medical help. Don't wait
much longer!

dragon

OK, thanks for the UTI possibility - I will check that out this week. He
peed in
the bed again last night, so looking at that is a definite go now. For the
poohing,
the vet has been involved with trying to figure that out all along. Since it
is
inconsistent, i.e sometimes in the box and sometimes not, we tend to lean
towards the behavioural causes. But now with the other problem ....

I will try the alternate boxes again. I had tried a second one a while ago,
and he
ignored it. Skooter thought it was a blast though - loved having the choice!
Argh.

Thanks for the suggestions!
Pat

"Pat" wrote in message
...
Hi All

Instead of thinking outside of the box, my 8-year-old neutered male cat
Freddie has the habit of poohing outside of the box. For almost two years
now, he has been doing it. At first, I thought it was because I had gone
back to work (I had been unemployed for several months). He started by
doing
it on my fuzzy green bathmat (which isn't quite so fuzzy now!). Since
then,
it has spread to other fuzzies or towels in the bathroom, or worse, in my
bed. It was always pooh, pee went in the box. But now, he has also peed in
the bed twice in the last two months.

I'll take responsibility for the second pee episode, as I had forgotten to
clean out the box in the last 36 hours. But, he has been using the same
litter for years now (I tried changing from wheat to corn, but that
doesn't
seem to matter, so I went back to wheat, and the changes didn't make a
difference). I clean the box once or twice a day. I have also tried a
bigger
litter box, and a separate litter box (I also have a 5 year old female,
Skooter). The two cats have grown up together, and are best friends,
eating
and sleeping together. I try to give them equal time, although Skooter
does
like to butt in. The only thing I can think of is that Skooter is
leash-friendly, and he often left us a present to be found when we
returned
from our walkies. I also tried Freddie on a leash, taking him outside
outside a couple of time, but since he is terrified of the outside world
(I
suspect he had been abused before I got him from the Humane Society), he
just shudders and shakes and shreds me. So, I am going to assume it is
probably jealousy and/or anger at me -- like, if I stay out longer than he
thinks I should (maybe I should call him "Mother"?) Oh yes, the vet has
examined him thoroughly a couple of times, and no problem. Anal glands
don't
seem to be involved.

I have no intentions of sending him to the great beyond for this problem,
although in the heat of the moment I wonder. We have sort of made a deal -
it is ok to poo on the bathmat or toilet seat cover. Them I can wash, and
get replacements at the dollar store. I also put a shower curtain liner
(dollar store again) on the bed. But if I forget, like today, I am often
the
recipient of little brown presents at bed time, like tonight! Ok ok, so I
forget to tell him I was going to be out for a few hours.

So, anybody want to offer any wisdom?

Thanks
Pat

PS - Found some good stuff for cleaning up after cat pee - Urine-Erase,
from Reidell (made in Canada) Actually smells good. And in case you are
wondering, I flipped the mattress after the first time, so I don't think
(ok, I hope) that that wasn't the reason for episode 2.

OK, thanks for the UTI possibility - I will check that out this week. He
peed in
the bed again last night, so looking at that is a definite go now. For the
poohing,
the vet has been involved with trying to figure that out all along. Since it
is
inconsistent, i.e sometimes in the box and sometimes not, we tend to lean
towards the behavioural causes. But now with the other problem ....

I will try the alternate boxes again. I had tried a second one a while ago,
and he
ignored it. Skooter thought it was a blast though - loved having the choice!
Argh.

Thanks for the suggestions!
Pat

"Pat" wrote in message
...
Hi All

Instead of thinking outside of the box, my 8-year-old neutered male cat
Freddie has the habit of poohing outside of the box. For almost two years
now, he has been doing it. At first, I thought it was because I had gone
back to work (I had been unemployed for several months). He started by
doing
it on my fuzzy green bathmat (which isn't quite so fuzzy now!). Since
then,
it has spread to other fuzzies or towels in the bathroom, or worse, in my
bed. It was always pooh, pee went in the box. But now, he has also peed in
the bed twice in the last two months.

I'll take responsibility for the second pee episode, as I had forgotten to
clean out the box in the last 36 hours. But, he has been using the same
litter for years now (I tried changing from wheat to corn, but that
doesn't
seem to matter, so I went back to wheat, and the changes didn't make a
difference). I clean the box once or twice a day. I have also tried a
bigger
litter box, and a separate litter box (I also have a 5 year old female,
Skooter). The two cats have grown up together, and are best friends,
eating
and sleeping together. I try to give them equal time, although Skooter
does
like to butt in. The only thing I can think of is that Skooter is
leash-friendly, and he often left us a present to be found when we
returned
from our walkies. I also tried Freddie on a leash, taking him outside
outside a couple of time, but since he is terrified of the outside world
(I
suspect he had been abused before I got him from the Humane Society), he
just shudders and shakes and shreds me. So, I am going to assume it is
probably jealousy and/or anger at me -- like, if I stay out longer than he
thinks I should (maybe I should call him "Mother"?) Oh yes, the vet has
examined him thoroughly a couple of times, and no problem. Anal glands
don't
seem to be involved.

I have no intentions of sending him to the great beyond for this problem,
although in the heat of the moment I wonder. We have sort of made a deal -
it is ok to poo on the bathmat or toilet seat cover. Them I can wash, and
get replacements at the dollar store. I also put a shower curtain liner
(dollar store again) on the bed. But if I forget, like today, I am often
the
recipient of little brown presents at bed time, like tonight! Ok ok, so I
forget to tell him I was going to be out for a few hours.

So, anybody want to offer any wisdom?

Thanks
Pat

PS - Found some good stuff for cleaning up after cat pee - Urine-Erase,
from Reidell (made in Canada) Actually smells good. And in case you are
wondering, I flipped the mattress after the first time, so I don't think
(ok, I hope) that that wasn't the reason for episode 2.