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#81
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Gaubster2 wrote:
I'm not backpedaling, I stand by what I say. Then why you can't you prove it? You have not posted one item of information that backs up or verifies your claim, but you have spent a lot of energy *avoiding* doing just that. But let's play your game. Why don't you prove to me that I'm wrong and that cats and dogs ARE ALLOWED in pet food. I maintain that they are not. Again I already proved it with a quote from the FDA. They would know what they're talking about. Here's another article: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-03.htm "Still, it is not illegal to use rendered material from dogs and cats in pet food. And while no one keeps official figures, there's some evidence it happens. The Food and Drug Administration has found "very, very low levels" of sodium pentobarbital--the chemical used to euthanize animals--in some brands of dog food, said Stephen Sundloff, director of the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine. The agency is investigating whether the traces are "of any significance at all," Sundloff said." On DNA testing for cats and dogs in pet food: http://www.supersonicjane.com/rants/pfood.shtml "Also, I have contacted three forensic labs and all have stated that it would be virtually impossible to detect any dog and cat DNA in a product that had been rendered and then processed." And more on Sodium Pentobarbitol in pet food: http://members.rogers.com/anmartin1/cvm.html Let's see your federal statutes that say such a practice is not only allowed, but common. I have NEVER said a word about whether it is common or if it is done at all. And you don't need a statute for something that is allowed. Duh. It's clear you are not going to prove what you say or in any way back it up with facts, despte the fact that you have been asked to do so numerous times. That IS backpedaling and AFAIC you've lost the argument. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray |
#82
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Gaubster2 Wrote:
The problem here is that the site is referencing Ann Martin who did her research in the 60s and 70s and is the subject of this whole debate. The problem here is that you are determined to become the minister of *disinformation.* If you can't post accurately, don't post at all. Ann Martin first started investigating the pet food industry in 1990, and her book was first published in 1997. Dead dogs and cats aren't used in pet foods in the US. If they are, it is illegal. Prove it. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray |
#83
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Gaubster2 Wrote:
The problem here is that the site is referencing Ann Martin who did her research in the 60s and 70s and is the subject of this whole debate. The problem here is that you are determined to become the minister of *disinformation.* If you can't post accurately, don't post at all. Ann Martin first started investigating the pet food industry in 1990, and her book was first published in 1997. Dead dogs and cats aren't used in pet foods in the US. If they are, it is illegal. Prove it. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray |
#84
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It's clear you are not going to prove what you say or in any way back it
up with facts, despte the fact that you have been asked to do so numerous times. That IS backpedaling and AFAIC you've lost the argument. You're not very patient, then. I should have something in a few days. Gaubster2 wrote: I'm not backpedaling, I stand by what I say. Then why you can't you prove it? You have not posted one item of information that backs up or verifies your claim, but you have spent a lot of energy *avoiding* doing just that. While you may rely on the internet for all of your "proof", I don't. No matter how many times you say it, I'm not backpedaling. I really wish you would quit spinning the issue. But let's play your game. Why don't you prove to me that I'm wrong and that cats and dogs ARE ALLOWED in pet food. I maintain that they are not. Again I already proved it with a quote from the FDA. No, you didn't "prove" it. You're relying on someone else to do "your" research. You don't know the person in the story from Adam. Do you? Here's another article: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-03.htm A lot of allegations, but no proof. This, btw, is recycled news footage that makes it's way across the country when they need to fill time during the news. It made it's way here to the local Portland news last Nov (2002). They made all kinds of allegations, yet no finger-pointing at any given company--no proof. I called the news station to find out more information and was told that they frequently run "human interest" stories from around the country and that it was just a tape that they provided voice-overs for. According to the local station, they were given a script to read over the footage to "localize" it. See what I mean about scare tactics? Fear sells. "Still, it is not illegal to use rendered material from dogs and cats in pet food. And while no one keeps official figures, there's some evidence it happens. The Food and Drug Administration has found "very, very low levels" of sodium pentobarbital--the chemical used to euthanize animals--in some brands of dog food, said Stephen Sundloff, director of the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine. The agency is investigating whether the traces are "of any significance at all," Sundloff said." Read the quote closely. The first sentence is opinion, not fact. As for the "some evidence it happens", the pentobarbital was eventually determined to originate from cattle; it's used to put down cattle (a source of beef found in some pet foods). Once all of the facts are examined, the truth becomes self-evident. If you take things out of context, then you run into problems. On DNA testing for cats and dogs in pet food: http://www.supersonicjane.com/rants/pfood.shtml Nice opinion piece, but not all sides of the issue are represented. This gal says she fed a kibble that had "human grade" ingredients. There is no such thing in pet foods. So right away she is wrong. Once a pet food ingredient (regardless of how high quality it is) enters a pet food factory, it automatically become "unfit for human consumption". That's the rule. If you were to buy a roast from your butcher, go home, and then decide to return it for some reason, the butcher (by law) can't resell the meat--it has to get thrown out...even though there is nothing wrong w/ it. And just the fact that she is getting "Ann Martin's take on it" suggests that she is picking and choosing her subject matter. Hardly "fair and balanced". Anything you quote from Ann Martin should be taken w/ a grain of salt. She has made a fortune selling fear to unsuspecting and well-meaning pet owners. |
#85
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It's clear you are not going to prove what you say or in any way back it
up with facts, despte the fact that you have been asked to do so numerous times. That IS backpedaling and AFAIC you've lost the argument. You're not very patient, then. I should have something in a few days. Gaubster2 wrote: I'm not backpedaling, I stand by what I say. Then why you can't you prove it? You have not posted one item of information that backs up or verifies your claim, but you have spent a lot of energy *avoiding* doing just that. While you may rely on the internet for all of your "proof", I don't. No matter how many times you say it, I'm not backpedaling. I really wish you would quit spinning the issue. But let's play your game. Why don't you prove to me that I'm wrong and that cats and dogs ARE ALLOWED in pet food. I maintain that they are not. Again I already proved it with a quote from the FDA. No, you didn't "prove" it. You're relying on someone else to do "your" research. You don't know the person in the story from Adam. Do you? Here's another article: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-03.htm A lot of allegations, but no proof. This, btw, is recycled news footage that makes it's way across the country when they need to fill time during the news. It made it's way here to the local Portland news last Nov (2002). They made all kinds of allegations, yet no finger-pointing at any given company--no proof. I called the news station to find out more information and was told that they frequently run "human interest" stories from around the country and that it was just a tape that they provided voice-overs for. According to the local station, they were given a script to read over the footage to "localize" it. See what I mean about scare tactics? Fear sells. "Still, it is not illegal to use rendered material from dogs and cats in pet food. And while no one keeps official figures, there's some evidence it happens. The Food and Drug Administration has found "very, very low levels" of sodium pentobarbital--the chemical used to euthanize animals--in some brands of dog food, said Stephen Sundloff, director of the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine. The agency is investigating whether the traces are "of any significance at all," Sundloff said." Read the quote closely. The first sentence is opinion, not fact. As for the "some evidence it happens", the pentobarbital was eventually determined to originate from cattle; it's used to put down cattle (a source of beef found in some pet foods). Once all of the facts are examined, the truth becomes self-evident. If you take things out of context, then you run into problems. On DNA testing for cats and dogs in pet food: http://www.supersonicjane.com/rants/pfood.shtml Nice opinion piece, but not all sides of the issue are represented. This gal says she fed a kibble that had "human grade" ingredients. There is no such thing in pet foods. So right away she is wrong. Once a pet food ingredient (regardless of how high quality it is) enters a pet food factory, it automatically become "unfit for human consumption". That's the rule. If you were to buy a roast from your butcher, go home, and then decide to return it for some reason, the butcher (by law) can't resell the meat--it has to get thrown out...even though there is nothing wrong w/ it. And just the fact that she is getting "Ann Martin's take on it" suggests that she is picking and choosing her subject matter. Hardly "fair and balanced". Anything you quote from Ann Martin should be taken w/ a grain of salt. She has made a fortune selling fear to unsuspecting and well-meaning pet owners. |
#86
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The problem here is that the site is
referencing Ann Martin who did her research in the 60s and 70s and is the subject of this whole debate. The problem here is that you are determined to become the minister of *disinformation.* If that label fit me, I would go around perpuating these kinds of myths. I'm simply trying to set the record straight and you don't want to believe it. Whatever. If you can't post accurately, don't post at all. Ann Martin first started investigating the pet food industry in 1990, and her book was first published in 1997. You're full of crap. DO YOUR RESEARCH. LOOK IT UP. I've seen the book before and it was originally published in the late '70s (I want to say 1978 or '79) She has simply re-released her book. I don't know why you are being so argumentative. Do you really believe that dead dogs and cats are ground up and used in pet foods? Please answer that question. Then prove it. Please tell me and all the others, which companies to stay away from. Which companies are the biggest offenders? And then perhaps, since you feel so strongly about the subject, you would like to start a campaign to get "them" to change their tactics. |
#87
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The problem here is that the site is
referencing Ann Martin who did her research in the 60s and 70s and is the subject of this whole debate. The problem here is that you are determined to become the minister of *disinformation.* If that label fit me, I would go around perpuating these kinds of myths. I'm simply trying to set the record straight and you don't want to believe it. Whatever. If you can't post accurately, don't post at all. Ann Martin first started investigating the pet food industry in 1990, and her book was first published in 1997. You're full of crap. DO YOUR RESEARCH. LOOK IT UP. I've seen the book before and it was originally published in the late '70s (I want to say 1978 or '79) She has simply re-released her book. I don't know why you are being so argumentative. Do you really believe that dead dogs and cats are ground up and used in pet foods? Please answer that question. Then prove it. Please tell me and all the others, which companies to stay away from. Which companies are the biggest offenders? And then perhaps, since you feel so strongly about the subject, you would like to start a campaign to get "them" to change their tactics. |
#88
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Steve wrote:
snip proof of his utter inabilty to comprehend the written word Steve, do you know how to comprehend? NOWHERE have I made the claim that there are cats and dogs in pet food. NOWHERE have I made claims that a food labeled as chicken would have cats or dogs instead. My whole point of the post you quoted was that using cats and dogs in pet food is *not* illegal. Gaubster2 claims it is but has yet to post proof. I have not entered the cats/dogs in pet food debate other than to say it is not illegal for companies to use them, which you have just confirmed. While I believe it is "possible" that this happens, I have not formed an opinion on whether it does because I don't have enough evidence to do so. I've been over this *several* times in this thread already and if you can't ****ing figure it out by now then go back to school and learn how to read. Sheesh. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray |
#89
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Steve wrote:
snip proof of his utter inabilty to comprehend the written word Steve, do you know how to comprehend? NOWHERE have I made the claim that there are cats and dogs in pet food. NOWHERE have I made claims that a food labeled as chicken would have cats or dogs instead. My whole point of the post you quoted was that using cats and dogs in pet food is *not* illegal. Gaubster2 claims it is but has yet to post proof. I have not entered the cats/dogs in pet food debate other than to say it is not illegal for companies to use them, which you have just confirmed. While I believe it is "possible" that this happens, I have not formed an opinion on whether it does because I don't have enough evidence to do so. I've been over this *several* times in this thread already and if you can't ****ing figure it out by now then go back to school and learn how to read. Sheesh. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray |
#90
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