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#11
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Cat losing body-moisture.
Thank you everybody re. the suggestion of adding water to his food to
get him to take in more fluid. I don't think this would work unless we made the food tastier - perhaps by moving up to a more expensive (and hopefully tastier) brand. We are on a tight budget here and so in the past, several years ago actually, I tried adding a little water to their food to make it go further and the result was that they wouldn't touch it at all! I have suddenly thought of one way of getting more water into him though and that's to let him eat as much natural yoghourt as he wants! He loves it. The only problem I can see with this is that he may get sick of it and then we would have nothing to hide his aspirin in and avoid the trauma of getting his aspirin into him. (Our two cats simply will not permit anyone to put anything down their throats! They will keep the throat closed for as long as you are willing to kneel there holding them, and then spit the offending alien matter out onto the floor!) So we need to insure that the yoghourt remains "a treat". I wonder what else there may be beside yoghourt. Eddy. |
#12
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Cat losing body-moisture.
Eddy Tuna juice or sardine juice
or maybe the gravy by itself they sell for cats "Eddy" wrote in message ... Thank you everybody re. the suggestion of adding water to his food to get him to take in more fluid. I don't think this would work unless we made the food tastier - perhaps by moving up to a more expensive (and hopefully tastier) brand. We are on a tight budget here and so in the past, several years ago actually, I tried adding a little water to their food to make it go further and the result was that they wouldn't touch it at all! I have suddenly thought of one way of getting more water into him though and that's to let him eat as much natural yoghourt as he wants! He loves it. The only problem I can see with this is that he may get sick of it and then we would have nothing to hide his aspirin in and avoid the trauma of getting his aspirin into him. (Our two cats simply will not permit anyone to put anything down their throats! They will keep the throat closed for as long as you are willing to kneel there holding them, and then spit the offending alien matter out onto the floor!) So we need to insure that the yoghourt remains "a treat". I wonder what else there may be beside yoghourt. Eddy. |
#13
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Cat losing body-moisture.
Sorry Gandalf I did not mean just in this case
"Gandalf" wrote in message ... On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 00:11:57 -0400, "Matthew" wrote: "sudee" wrote in message ... On Apr 12, 7:30 am, jmc wrote: Suddenly, without warning, MaryL exclaimed (4/12/2009 9:33 AM): "Eddy" wrote in message ... I will be taking this question to the vet once the Easter break is over, but in the meantime I wonder if anyone has any advice? One of our cats, just four and a half years old, has recently been found to be suffering from serious heart disease, namely "HCM". (The heart has become enlarged and deformed, it does not operate normally, and the heart-beat is far higher than normal.) It has been a touch-and-go situation and we are lucky that the cat is still alive. One of the effects of HCM is that fluid gathers around the lungs, restricting the space within which the lungs may expand, so breathing becomes difficult. To combat this particular effect the cat is now taking furosemide (after having had his pleural cavities drained via thoracentesis). Furosemide is a diuretic, i.e., it draws moisture out of the tissues, in this case keeping the pleural cavities clear of the inhibiting fluid. The vet told us to give our cat a quarter of a tablet per day (along with the ace-inhibitor and the aspirin he must now also take). But, unfortunately, the difficulty in breathing returned. So the vet advised us to double the daily dose of furosemide, i.e. a quarter of a tablet every 12 hours, instead of once in 24 hours. This has corrected the situation causing the breathing difficulty, i.e. it has cleared the pleural cavities of the fluid caused by the malfunctioning heart. HOWEVER, the diuretic has effected the cat's entire body, drawing moisture out of ALL his tissues, so that he has become thin - very noticeably thin, when compared to his healthy twin brother. This has happened within the space of a week and obviously his getting thinner still is a great concern. So, we have reduced the diuretic slightly, so that he receives a quarter in the morning, but only an eighth in the evening. It remains to be seen if this will be enough to keep the pleural cavities free of the buildup of fluid and whether it may reduce the excessive withdrawal of moisture from the rest of his body. Please note, our cats' diet is entirely wet-food, so we can't get more water into him via the feeding route. Has anybody any familiarity with this situation? Is there anything else we can do? Thanks. Eddy. Eddy, I can't answer your question about how thin your cat has become, so I'm glad you will be consulting your vet again very soon. It is important to learn if it is really lack of fluids that is causing this problem, or something else. If it is fluid, your vet may want to give Ringer's lactate (which can also be administered at home, if it needs to be an ongoing thing). However, I did have two thoughts concerning your statement that you can't get more water into him via the feeding route. First, you could increase the water in his canned food somewhat by adding a small amount of warm water to the food; stir it to make a sort of "slurry." Some cats will reject it, but it's worth trying. Make sure it is a premium quality canned food *without* grains. Second (although this does not involve his food), some cats will drink more if the water is moving. Have you tried one of the pet "fountains" that are used for this purpose? Good luck with your kitty, and please keep us updated. MaryL Don't have to make a slurry if he won't accept it (mine won't). Just pour a spoonful or three over the chunks - they'll soak up water from the bottom. If they start looking dry on top, just flip 'em over. This works very well for my cat. Second the "moving water" idea. Also the liquid from tuna in water, or salmon, is usually considered a treat, and you can probably add a little extra to help him out. There are lots of tricks of the trade to cause a cat to drink more water - I've tried many of them, since my cat has cystitis and we had some issues figuring this one out. jmc Fresh filtered or distilled water only also, my kids love to have ice cubes added which helps them "see" the water and gets them drinking lots. Cats love cold water. Sue M Actual everything I have been reading is that distilled or purified water is not actually good for anyone it lacks the natural minerals needed That is generally true. However, in a case where you need to get more fluid into a reluctant cat, ANYTHING that works is good. The purified/distilled water will make up a small % of the total water intake (canned food is 70 to 80% water) so this won't affect the cat's overall health. I'm sorry you cat is so very, very sick. I hope you can get him 'stabilized' ASAP, and that you have much more quality time with him. |
#14
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Cat losing body-moisture.
Matthew wrote:
Eddy Tuna juice or sardine juice or maybe the gravy by itself they sell for cats Thanks, Matthew. Have been a little wary of giving him the brine in which his tuna comes because of its saltiness. Have assumed that the salt would not be good for him. He gets a little tuna every morning in which are mixed his crushed medication (the furosemide and the ace-inhibitor) but I have been seiving the tuna flakes out and trying not to give him the brine. Maybe I shouldn't worry about this. Perhaps the sodium will help make up for the electrolytes he's losing because of the action of the furosemide? We've had another beautiful day today and it's such a privilege to be outside in the garden with him watching him rolling around on his back in a state of bliss just loving it all. It's really weird to be watching him, now seemingly restored to near-perfect health and appearances, but knowing that inside his little body is an enlarged diseased heart that we are told will definitely not last more than a couple of years, if that. Eddy. |
#15
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Cat losing body-moisture.
Suddenly, without warning, Eddy exclaimed (4/13/2009 5:22 AM):
MaryL wrote: Eddy, I can't answer your question about how thin your cat has become, so I'm glad you will be consulting your vet again very soon. It is important to learn if it is really lack of fluids that is causing this problem, or something else. If it is fluid, your vet may want to give Ringer's lactate (which can also be administered at home, if it needs to be an ongoing thing). However, I did have two thoughts concerning your statement that you can't get more water into him via the feeding route. First, you could increase the water in his canned food somewhat by adding a small amount of warm water to the food; stir it to make a sort of "slurry." Some cats will reject it, but it's worth trying. Make sure it is a premium quality canned food *without* grains. Second (although this does not involve his food), some cats will drink more if the water is moving. Have you tried one of the pet "fountains" that are used for this purpose? Good luck with your kitty, and please keep us updated. MaryL Thanks, MaryL. I have looked up "Lactated Ringers" and I see that it is "used for the treatment of dehydration and electrolyte depletion in animals". So I will run this by the vet tomorrow. However, from the little I have read of this on the internet just now it seems it has to be injected subcutaneously. I think this would be too traumatic for us and the poor cat. Fingers crossed he won't get any thinner and his current happiness will continue. Many thanks. Eddy. Just had a random thought - is it possible the cat's been thin for a while, but that it's been hidden by the oedema? If that's the case it might not be a hydration problem. (question for the vet?) Incidentally, if you increase his wet food, it'll increase his water intake as well. And as to adding water, don't add a lot. Start with a tiny bit, just enough to moisten. If that works, you can gradually increase the amount, but it doesn't need to be soup. jmc |
#16
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Cat losing body-moisture.
Or, the juice from cans of salmon. My cat *loves* oily salmon juice!
Suddenly, without warning, Matthew exclaimed (4/13/2009 11:44 AM): Eddy Tuna juice or sardine juice or maybe the gravy by itself they sell for cats "Eddy" wrote in message ... Thank you everybody re. the suggestion of adding water to his food to get him to take in more fluid. I don't think this would work unless we made the food tastier - perhaps by moving up to a more expensive (and hopefully tastier) brand. We are on a tight budget here and so in the past, several years ago actually, I tried adding a little water to their food to make it go further and the result was that they wouldn't touch it at all! I have suddenly thought of one way of getting more water into him though and that's to let him eat as much natural yoghourt as he wants! He loves it. The only problem I can see with this is that he may get sick of it and then we would have nothing to hide his aspirin in and avoid the trauma of getting his aspirin into him. (Our two cats simply will not permit anyone to put anything down their throats! They will keep the throat closed for as long as you are willing to kneel there holding them, and then spit the offending alien matter out onto the floor!) So we need to insure that the yoghourt remains "a treat". I wonder what else there may be beside yoghourt. Eddy. |
#17
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Cat losing body-moisture.
"Eddy" wrote in message ... I will be taking this question to the vet once the Easter break is over, but in the meantime I wonder if anyone has any advice? One of our cats, just four and a half years old, has recently been found to be suffering from serious heart disease, namely "HCM". (The heart has become enlarged and deformed, it does not operate normally, and the heart-beat is far higher than normal.) It has been a touch-and-go situation and we are lucky that the cat is still alive. One of the effects of HCM is that fluid gathers around the lungs, restricting the space within which the lungs may expand, so breathing becomes difficult. To combat this particular effect the cat is now taking furosemide (after having had his pleural cavities drained via thoracentesis). Furosemide is a diuretic, i.e., it draws moisture out of the tissues, in this case keeping the pleural cavities clear of the inhibiting fluid. The vet told us to give our cat a quarter of a tablet per day (along with the ace-inhibitor and the aspirin he must now also take). But, unfortunately, the difficulty in breathing returned. So the vet advised us to double the daily dose of furosemide, i.e. a quarter of a tablet every 12 hours, instead of once in 24 hours. This has corrected the situation causing the breathing difficulty, i.e. it has cleared the pleural cavities of the fluid caused by the malfunctioning heart. HOWEVER, the diuretic has effected the cat's entire body, drawing moisture out of ALL his tissues, so that he has become thin - very noticeably thin, when compared to his healthy twin brother. This has happened within the space of a week and obviously his getting thinner still is a great concern. So, we have reduced the diuretic slightly, so that he receives a quarter in the morning, but only an eighth in the evening. It remains to be seen if this will be enough to keep the pleural cavities free of the buildup of fluid and whether it may reduce the excessive withdrawal of moisture from the rest of his body. Please note, our cats' diet is entirely wet-food, so we can't get more water into him via the feeding route. Has anybody any familiarity with this situation? Is there anything else we can do? Since your cat is receiving a diuretic, speak to your vet about a potassium supplement. Diuretics promote rapid urine formation and rapid urine formation promotes increased potassium excretion which can lead to hypokalemia. Hypokalemia and/or potassium depletion can have very serious effects on the heart and especially the kidneys. In addition to the diuretic, you might want to speak to your vet about nitroglycerin ointment (placed on the inside of the pinna). Its vasodilating effect lowers the filling pressures in the left atrium and left ventricle which will help reduce edema and should allow you to taper the dose of furosemide. Also, ask your vet why he chose an ace inhibitor over the calcium channel blocker diltiazem? Diltiazem is the drug of choice in cats with HCM. In addition to all diltiazem's many other benefits, a lot of cats receiving diltiazem no longer need diuretics. Diltiazem also reduces hypertrophy in the left ventricle and left atrium dimensions in some cats and also reduces the risk of thromboembolism. Does your cat have mitral valve regurgitation and/or SAM (Systolic Anterior Motion of the mitral valve)? I've managed several cats with HCM and CHF secondary to HCM successfully with this regimen. So, contrary to popular belief, cats with HCM can live several years after diagnosis and have a good quality of life with the right treatment. I think you should consult a veterinary cardiologist. Best of luck, Phil |
#18
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Cat losing body-moisture.
Phil P. wrote:
Since your cat is receiving a diuretic, speak to your vet about a potassium supplement. Diuretics promote rapid urine formation and rapid urine formation promotes increased potassium excretion which can lead to hypokalemia. Hypokalemia and/or potassium depletion can have very serious effects on the heart and especially the kidneys. In addition to the diuretic, you might want to speak to your vet about nitroglycerin ointment (placed on the inside of the pinna). Its vasodilating effect lowers the filling pressures in the left atrium and left ventricle which will help reduce edema and should allow you to taper the dose of furosemide. Also, ask your vet why he chose an ace inhibitor over the calcium channel blocker diltiazem? Diltiazem is the drug of choice in cats with HCM. In addition to all diltiazem's many other benefits, a lot of cats receiving diltiazem no longer need diuretics. Diltiazem also reduces hypertrophy in the left ventricle and left atrium dimensions in some cats and also reduces the risk of thromboembolism. Does your cat have mitral valve regurgitation and/or SAM (Systolic Anterior Motion of the mitral valve)? I've managed several cats with HCM and CHF secondary to HCM successfully with this regimen. So, contrary to popular belief, cats with HCM can live several years after diagnosis and have a good quality of life with the right treatment. I think you should consult a veterinary cardiologist. Best of luck, Phil Thank you for all of the above, Phil. Obviously broaching it with our vet will be a challenging thing to do, but we will consider how best to do it. The other reaction is to say that the current treatment has certainly brought this cat back from the jaws of death. (While grinding up his tablets on the kitchen work-surface this morning, he leapt up onto the bench three times in his enthusiasm for his morning treat of "medication with tuna"!) Eddy. |
#19
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Cat losing body-moisture.
jmc wrote:
Just had a random thought - is it possible the cat's been thin for a while, but that it's been hidden by the oedema? If that's the case it might not be a hydration problem. (question for the vet?) Incidentally, if you increase his wet food, it'll increase his water intake as well. And as to adding water, don't add a lot. Start with a tiny bit, just enough to moisten. If that works, you can gradually increase the amount, but it doesn't need to be soup. jmc And that's a very good thought, JMC. Thanks. Never occurred to us. Yes, up until he was drained of half a pint of fluid from around his lungs he did always seem significantly more bulbous in his lower trunk that his healthy twin-brother. So you could well be right. He certainly not suffering at the moment from the new "thinness". I mean, he's now behaving with all the joy and liveliness of the cat he was when he was a year old. Yesterday he even appeared back inside the house with a large vole he had caught! I think you could well be right. Anyway, we have lowered his daily dose of furosemide by an eighth as a result of our fears that he it was overkilling the oedema and the oedema does not seem to be returning. We will keep monitoring, and talk to the vet. Eddy. |
#20
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Cat losing body-moisture.
"Eddy" wrote in message ... One of our cats, just four and a half years old, has recently been found to be suffering from serious heart disease, namely "HCM". (The heart has become enlarged and deformed, What exactly do you mean by "deformed"? Is the shape of the heart globular or like a valentine or lopsided valentine? Did your vet base her diagnosis on x-rays or ultrasounds? Also, did you actually see the fluid that was removed? Was it milky white or yellow to pink and opaque? Phil |
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