OT - Suicide a Sin?

Sorry for the dark topic, but I know a lot of you here suffer from
depression, so you may have thought about this and come to some conclusions.
It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

I was brought up Catholic (lapsed when I got old enough to grow an "irony
meter"). Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can absolve
someone of their sins (hence "Last Rites"). Most Protestants believe that
only Christ can forgive sins, and that can be done after death, so suicide
isn't necessarily a "go straight to hell" card. But Catholics believe that
anyone committing suicide, since they don't have the chance to be absolved
of their sins by the Catholic Church, will burn in everlasting hell - in
unspeakable agony for all of eternity. Well.... that kind of puts a damper
on thoughts of "ending the pain", doesn't it? I think it is probably the
vestiges of that Catholic upbringing that's the only reason I'm alive right
now (and, right now, being alive *isn't* a good thing considering the
constant pain I'm in, so thank you oh so very much mom!!!).

What are your thoughts on the subject?

One last comment - this forum is (or at least *used* to be) a place where we
could discuss *anything* politely, even politics. I'm hoping we can retain
a modicum of that forbearance and not turn this discussion into a war
thread.

Hugs,

CatNipped

"CatEyes" wrote in message
...
Sorry for the dark topic, but I know a lot of you here suffer from
depression, so you may have thought about this and come to some
conclusions. It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

(snippage)

I don't even want to know why you're asking.

A Sin? No. I'm not religious in any traditional sense of the word so that
word holds no meaning for me. Morally wrong? Absolutely.

Depression isn't an excuse to kill yourself. There are medications (even
herbal OTC) to help with that. My LLL's father did the murder/suicide
thing. Shot his second wife then put the gun to his head. He was left to
deal with the consequences, including informing his mother her ex-husband
had killed his wife and himself. 30 years later he's still feeling guilty,
thinking he should have known his father needed help. Thinking there should
have been something he could have done. It's a horrible thing to do to your
family and friends. Which is what makes it morally reprehesensible. IMHO,
of course.

Jill

CatEyes wrote:
Sorry for the dark topic, but I know a lot of you here suffer from
depression, so you may have thought about this and come to some conclusions.
It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

I was brought up Catholic (lapsed when I got old enough to grow an "irony
meter"). Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can absolve
someone of their sins (hence "Last Rites"). Most Protestants believe that
only Christ can forgive sins, and that can be done after death, so suicide
isn't necessarily a "go straight to hell" card. But Catholics believe that
anyone committing suicide, since they don't have the chance to be absolved
of their sins by the Catholic Church, will burn in everlasting hell - in
unspeakable agony for all of eternity. Well.... that kind of puts a damper
on thoughts of "ending the pain", doesn't it? I think it is probably the
vestiges of that Catholic upbringing that's the only reason I'm alive right
now (and, right now, being alive *isn't* a good thing considering the
constant pain I'm in, so thank you oh so very much mom!!!).

What are your thoughts on the subject?

One last comment - this forum is (or at least *used* to be) a place where we
could discuss *anything* politely, even politics. I'm hoping we can retain
a modicum of that forbearance and not turn this discussion into a war
thread.

Hugs,

CatNipped

===
Suicide has been defined as a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
mlb

CatEyes wrote:
Sorry for the dark topic, but I know a lot of you here suffer from
depression, so you may have thought about this and come to some conclusions.
It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

I was brought up Catholic (lapsed when I got old enough to grow an "irony
meter"). Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can absolve
someone of their sins (hence "Last Rites"). Most Protestants believe that
only Christ can forgive sins, and that can be done after death, so suicide
isn't necessarily a "go straight to hell" card. But Catholics believe that
anyone committing suicide, since they don't have the chance to be absolved
of their sins by the Catholic Church, will burn in everlasting hell - in
unspeakable agony for all of eternity. Well.... that kind of puts a damper
on thoughts of "ending the pain", doesn't it? I think it is probably the
vestiges of that Catholic upbringing that's the only reason I'm alive right
now (and, right now, being alive *isn't* a good thing considering the
constant pain I'm in, so thank you oh so very much mom!!!).

What are your thoughts on the subject?

One last comment - this forum is (or at least *used* to be) a place where we
could discuss *anything* politely, even politics. I'm hoping we can retain
a modicum of that forbearance and not turn this discussion into a war
thread.

Hugs,

CatNipped

Personally, I define "sin" as an action that harms someone else
(materially, physically, or emotionally). I think there are
circumstances in which suicide may REALLY be the best solution, but NOT
simply as an escape from depression! Think of the guilt such an action
would cause among the people who care about you, and those who you care
for. Children may think "You'll be sorry when I'm dead", but remember
you'll not be around to witness them "being sorry", and think of all the
interesting things that may yet be in store for you, alive! Remember
the statement some oriental sage made (intended to be true for all
situations in life): "This, too, shall pass". In our pill-pushing
culture, we are perhaps too dependent upon anti-depressants (although
they of course have their place), but meditation can help, too. Also
visualizing a more hopeful future. Viktor Frankl, a psychiatrist who
survived Auschwitz, observed that, among his fellow inmates: "He who has
a 'why' to live, can bear with almost any 'how'." Keep visualizing the
"why", and you can survive almost any unhappy present.

"MLB" wrote in message
...
CatEyes wrote:
Sorry for the dark topic, but I know a lot of you here suffer from
depression, so you may have thought about this and come to some
conclusions. It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

I was brought up Catholic (lapsed when I got old enough to grow an "irony
meter"). Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can absolve
someone of their sins (hence "Last Rites"). Most Protestants believe
that only Christ can forgive sins, and that can be done after death, so
suicide isn't necessarily a "go straight to hell" card. But Catholics
believe that anyone committing suicide, since they don't have the chance
to be absolved of their sins by the Catholic Church, will burn in
everlasting hell - in unspeakable agony for all of eternity. Well....
that kind of puts a damper on thoughts of "ending the pain", doesn't it?
I think it is probably the vestiges of that Catholic upbringing that's
the only reason I'm alive right now (and, right now, being alive *isn't*
a good thing considering the constant pain I'm in, so thank you oh so
very much mom!!!).

What are your thoughts on the subject?

One last comment - this forum is (or at least *used* to be) a place where
we could discuss *anything* politely, even politics. I'm hoping we can
retain a modicum of that forbearance and not turn this discussion into a
war thread.

Hugs,

CatNipped

===
Suicide has been defined as a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
mlb

Not being snarky, but my pain isn't temporary - it's real, it's physical,
and it's going to be with me every second of the day, 24/7, for the rest of
my life. Pain killers don't really give any relief because the body becomes
tolerant and they stop working. And even if they did, the FDA and the DEA
are both on a special campaign in the "war on drugs" to make sure that
opiate pain killers are taken off the market as soon as possible (and
they're sending doctors to prison left and right so more doctors are
becoming to afraid to even prescribe them any more). They've order 13 drug
companies to take pain meds off the market because they haven't been "FDA
Approved" (because they've been used since before there was an FDA).

Hugs,

CatNipped

"CatEyes" wrote in message
...
Sorry for the dark topic, but I know a lot of you here suffer from
depression, so you may have thought about this and come to some
conclusions. It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

I was brought up Catholic (lapsed when I got old enough to grow an "irony
meter"). Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can absolve
someone of their sins (hence "Last Rites"). Most Protestants believe that
only Christ can forgive sins, and that can be done after death, so suicide
isn't necessarily a "go straight to hell" card. But Catholics believe
that anyone committing suicide, since they don't have the chance to be
absolved of their sins by the Catholic Church, will burn in everlasting
hell - in unspeakable agony for all of eternity. Well.... that kind of
puts a damper on thoughts of "ending the pain", doesn't it? I think it is
probably the vestiges of that Catholic upbringing that's the only reason
I'm alive right now (and, right now, being alive *isn't* a good thing
considering the constant pain I'm in, so thank you oh so very much
mom!!!).

What are your thoughts on the subject?

I have considered it a few years ago and I decided that the pain it would
cause to my family would be too much for them to cope with.
I have to learn to be brave. On my own.

Tweed

CatEyes wrote:
Sorry for the dark topic, but I know a lot of you here suffer from
depression, so you may have thought about this and come to some
conclusions. It's something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

I was brought up Catholic (lapsed when I got old enough to grow an
"irony meter"). Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church
can absolve someone of their sins (hence "Last Rites"). Most
Protestants believe that only Christ can forgive sins, and that can
be done after death, so suicide isn't necessarily a "go straight to
hell" card. But Catholics believe that anyone committing suicide,
since they don't have the chance to be absolved of their sins by the
Catholic Church, will burn in everlasting hell - in unspeakable agony
for all of eternity. Well.... that kind of puts a damper on thoughts
of "ending the pain", doesn't it? I think it is probably the
vestiges of that Catholic upbringing that's the only reason I'm alive
right now (and, right now, being alive *isn't* a good thing
considering the constant pain I'm in, so thank you oh so very much
mom!!!).
What are your thoughts on the subject?

One last comment - this forum is (or at least *used* to be) a place
where we could discuss *anything* politely, even politics. I'm
hoping we can retain a modicum of that forbearance and not turn this
discussion into a war thread.

Hugs,

CatNipped

I don't believe it's a sin as I'm absolutely certain there is no God.
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy, Bagheera & Shadow)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

"CatEyes" wrote in message
...

Not being snarky, but my pain isn't temporary - it's real, it's physical,
and it's going to be with me every second of the day, 24/7, for the rest
of my life. Pain killers don't really give any relief because the body
becomes tolerant and they stop working. And even if they did, the FDA and
the DEA are both on a special campaign in the "war on drugs" to make sure
that opiate pain killers are taken off the market as soon as possible (and
they're sending doctors to prison left and right so more doctors are
becoming to afraid to even prescribe them any more). They've order 13
drug companies to take pain meds off the market because they haven't been
"FDA Approved" (because they've been used since before there was an FDA).


I wonder if you could find and participate in a clinical trial for new pain
medications? My mom was in one for her balance problem, and she was able to
drop out at any time if she experienced any side effects that were
uncomfortable to her. I found this page for resource for you, too.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/149283.php

And more specifically, here is a link from that page:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/135635.php

I hope you don't give up and you can find something to relieve your constant
pain.

In article ,
"CatEyes" wrote:

I was brought up Catholic (lapsed when I got old enough to grow an "irony
meter"). Catholics are taught that only the Catholic Church can absolve
someone of their sins (hence "Last Rites"). Most Protestants believe that
only Christ can forgive sins, and that can be done after death, so suicide
isn't necessarily a "go straight to hell" card. But Catholics believe that
anyone committing suicide, since they don't have the chance to be absolved
of their sins by the Catholic Church, will burn in everlasting hell - in
unspeakable agony for all of eternity. Well.... that kind of puts a damper
on thoughts of "ending the pain", doesn't it? I think it is probably the
vestiges of that Catholic upbringing that's the only reason I'm alive right
now (and, right now, being alive *isn't* a good thing considering the
constant pain I'm in, so thank you oh so very much mom!!!).

What are your thoughts on the subject?

A many may have guessed (or googled), I am not a Christian: I am
Wiccan. According to the way I was taught, suicide is your own choice -
as is everything else. We don't have a Hell to burn in, but rather
return to the World if, from the unforgivingly clear perspective of the
Summerlands, we feel we have further lessons to learn. Of course, even
then the choice to remain in the Summerlands or return to finish our
educations is still our own - Nobody *makes* us do either.

That being said, we have also a very good piece of advice in the Wiccan
Rede which states, "An ye harm none, do as ye will." The questions
facing a potential suicide, from my point of view, a "Whom will I
harm? Whom do I leave behind feeling guilty because they *know* that if
they'd only known what the problems were, they might have helped? Whom
do I leave behind who depends on me, whether it be emotionally or
physically (and yes, that includes people-in-fur). How will those close
to me react? Will anyone be completely devastated and seek to follow
me? Do I want them to? What about my family? What about my closest
friends?" And so on.

Please note that all of these are questions only you can answer - but I
think you must answer them with complete honesty.

This probably won't help much - Wicca, despite the popular perspective
of it, is not a particularly forgiving religion. On the other hand, it
is a response you may not get from anyone else.

Blessed be,
Baird

--
You know you're getting old when Muzak plays the Top 40 of your salad days.

No cluons were harmed when CatEyes wrote:
What are your thoughts on the subject?

I know some people who had loved ones commit suicide.

While I sympathise with those who 'just want to end the pain', I also see
the deep hurt imposed on those who are left behind.

I don't know whether suucide is a sin or not - I believe that who you are
continues, and thus the suicide didn't really take their life, just the
physical manifestation of that life.


Hugs and Purrs,
Mark
--
Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request