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Crane, Gaubster, PhilP



 
 
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  #51  
Old September 3rd 03, 01:42 AM
Phil P.
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om...

There will be
no more shouting as I will not be responding to these people again.


That's the only way you can weasel out of answering questions you can't
answer and don't want to answer! LOL! Lauren uses the same routine when I
ask her to back up one of her scare tactics and rumors.... Now I know where
she gets it from... along with most of her other bullsh!t...

You're not as slick as you think you are (although you think everyone else
is stupid), at least you know when you're outmatched...



  #52  
Old September 3rd 03, 04:25 AM
Phil P.
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"E. Kunze" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:43:22 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote:

Please pardon me for jumping in, Phil. BTW: Hi again :-).


How're ya Eb? Long time no see.


Let's look at the pet food industry, an industry that makes billions
per year.


So does, GM, Ford and about a 1000 other companies....


A decent product should guarantee a manufacturer the adequate income.
Otherwise, we would never find somebody to offer decent products.


Let me set the record straight about a few things. I never said or implied
commercial cat foods are better than home-cooked meals. Nothing beats a
home-cooked meal as long as person preparing the food understands their
feline's nutritional needs and knows how to make sure those needs are met.
Unfortunately, this is not the case for the overwhelmingly vast majority of
cat owners. They have neither the time, and/or desire, and/or finances
and/or knowledge nor the time and/or desire to aquire the knowledge.

What I take exception to, and will not tolerate is the small group of
fanatics trying to scare people with innuendo, rumors, conjecture and scare
tactics into following their agenda for which most pet owners are not
prepared and can have serious consequences.

For instance, if a person is led to believe that she/he cannot care for a
cat properly unless that person prepares homecooked meals, that person may
not adopt a cat. Another consequence could be rushing into preparing
home-made meals in a panic because those fanatics led her/him to believe
commercial pet food was "poison"... even though hundreds of millions of cats
have lived into their late teens and early twenties for generations on
commercial cat food..

Sure the commercial pet food industry is an extension of the human food
industry... so what? Those fanatics denigrate commercial pet food because
they're not getting champagne for the price of a can of beer. To compare
home-cooked meals with commercial pet food, then denigrate commercail food
because its not the same quality is ridiculous if not asinine.

There are different types of pet food, and people should buy what they xan
afford. They should not be strong-armed or made to feel guily or scared
into preparing homecooked meals for their cats if they're not prepared to do
so --

The bottom line is if 1/10 of the scare tactics and innuendo those fanatics
spread about commercial pet were true, millions of cats would be dropping
like flies every day instead of living into their late teens and early
twenties..

Phil.


  #53  
Old September 3rd 03, 04:25 AM
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"E. Kunze" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:43:22 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote:

Please pardon me for jumping in, Phil. BTW: Hi again :-).


How're ya Eb? Long time no see.


Let's look at the pet food industry, an industry that makes billions
per year.


So does, GM, Ford and about a 1000 other companies....


A decent product should guarantee a manufacturer the adequate income.
Otherwise, we would never find somebody to offer decent products.


Let me set the record straight about a few things. I never said or implied
commercial cat foods are better than home-cooked meals. Nothing beats a
home-cooked meal as long as person preparing the food understands their
feline's nutritional needs and knows how to make sure those needs are met.
Unfortunately, this is not the case for the overwhelmingly vast majority of
cat owners. They have neither the time, and/or desire, and/or finances
and/or knowledge nor the time and/or desire to aquire the knowledge.

What I take exception to, and will not tolerate is the small group of
fanatics trying to scare people with innuendo, rumors, conjecture and scare
tactics into following their agenda for which most pet owners are not
prepared and can have serious consequences.

For instance, if a person is led to believe that she/he cannot care for a
cat properly unless that person prepares homecooked meals, that person may
not adopt a cat. Another consequence could be rushing into preparing
home-made meals in a panic because those fanatics led her/him to believe
commercial pet food was "poison"... even though hundreds of millions of cats
have lived into their late teens and early twenties for generations on
commercial cat food..

Sure the commercial pet food industry is an extension of the human food
industry... so what? Those fanatics denigrate commercial pet food because
they're not getting champagne for the price of a can of beer. To compare
home-cooked meals with commercial pet food, then denigrate commercail food
because its not the same quality is ridiculous if not asinine.

There are different types of pet food, and people should buy what they xan
afford. They should not be strong-armed or made to feel guily or scared
into preparing homecooked meals for their cats if they're not prepared to do
so --

The bottom line is if 1/10 of the scare tactics and innuendo those fanatics
spread about commercial pet were true, millions of cats would be dropping
like flies every day instead of living into their late teens and early
twenties..

Phil.


  #54  
Old September 3rd 03, 09:56 PM
Steve Crane
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"Cheryl" wrote in message ...
In ,
Phil P. composed with style:

Lets see some documented cases of pentobarbital toxicity in
veterinary literature - e.g. peer=reviewed veterinary medical
journals? Otherwise, the issue is nothing more than a scare tactic
and you're nothing more than a manipulating *scaremonger* who
profits from scaring people needlessly.

I don't know about pentobarbital toxiciity but I do know that in the
cats that I've had I think I've had a very bad record and I sure do
want to know why. Allergies, megacolon, IBD... something is wrong
here.


This will certainly get some flames directed my way, but
unquestionably the genetics of cats are the biggest issue around. You
would not believe the calls that I hear about from breeders wanting to
get one more breeding out of an animal with a genetic disease. The dog
breeder who wanted to know if a certain therapeutic diet would
interfer with reproduction beacause she wanted at least one more
litter. The number of cat breeders who have confirmed renal failure
cats in their line and continue to breed and blame the genetic fault
on something, anything, else. I'll not name names here, but I can
remember a certain cat breeder in my hoome town in Idaho who had a
massive problem keeping kittens alive after birth. Some were born with
extra legs, some had no lungs, some simply faded and died after birth.
In looking back through records I learned she had LINE bred 27
succesive generations, father to daughter, mother to son, brother to
sister, grandfather to grandaughter etc etc. 27 straight in line sets
of breeding. You know what she thought the problem was - ethoxyquinin
the food. No food, no matter how well prepared, can overcome genetics.
  #55  
Old September 3rd 03, 09:56 PM
Steve Crane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Cheryl" wrote in message ...
In ,
Phil P. composed with style:

Lets see some documented cases of pentobarbital toxicity in
veterinary literature - e.g. peer=reviewed veterinary medical
journals? Otherwise, the issue is nothing more than a scare tactic
and you're nothing more than a manipulating *scaremonger* who
profits from scaring people needlessly.

I don't know about pentobarbital toxiciity but I do know that in the
cats that I've had I think I've had a very bad record and I sure do
want to know why. Allergies, megacolon, IBD... something is wrong
here.


This will certainly get some flames directed my way, but
unquestionably the genetics of cats are the biggest issue around. You
would not believe the calls that I hear about from breeders wanting to
get one more breeding out of an animal with a genetic disease. The dog
breeder who wanted to know if a certain therapeutic diet would
interfer with reproduction beacause she wanted at least one more
litter. The number of cat breeders who have confirmed renal failure
cats in their line and continue to breed and blame the genetic fault
on something, anything, else. I'll not name names here, but I can
remember a certain cat breeder in my hoome town in Idaho who had a
massive problem keeping kittens alive after birth. Some were born with
extra legs, some had no lungs, some simply faded and died after birth.
In looking back through records I learned she had LINE bred 27
succesive generations, father to daughter, mother to son, brother to
sister, grandfather to grandaughter etc etc. 27 straight in line sets
of breeding. You know what she thought the problem was - ethoxyquinin
the food. No food, no matter how well prepared, can overcome genetics.
  #58  
Old September 4th 03, 12:15 AM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In om,
Steve Crane composed with style:

No food, no matter how well prepared, can overcome
genetics.


I understand where you're coming from, I really do. But I can't see
genetics playing a part in the case of my cats. If it is, it's a
fluke because they each came from different places, different
circumstances. Way different ages. Now the one with allergies, I'm
sure genetics play a part in his other problem - bad teeth - and he's
only estimated to be about 2 years old. rhetorical question
Hhhmmmm... or is that the food too? /rhetorical question




  #59  
Old September 4th 03, 12:15 AM
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In om,
Steve Crane composed with style:

No food, no matter how well prepared, can overcome
genetics.


I understand where you're coming from, I really do. But I can't see
genetics playing a part in the case of my cats. If it is, it's a
fluke because they each came from different places, different
circumstances. Way different ages. Now the one with allergies, I'm
sure genetics play a part in his other problem - bad teeth - and he's
only estimated to be about 2 years old. rhetorical question
Hhhmmmm... or is that the food too? /rhetorical question




  #60  
Old September 4th 03, 02:09 AM
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ann Martin" wrote in message
om...


I've quote from letter received from the FDA/CVM as to
their knowledge that pets ARE used in commercial pet foods


According to the official FDA website,Miss-Leading Martin is stating *false*
information.

"CVM scientists, as part of their investigation, developed a test to detect
dog and cat DNA in the protein of the dog food. All samples from the most
recent dog food survey (2000) that tested positive for pentobarbital, as
well as a subset of samples that tested negative, were examined for the
presence of remains derived from dogs or cats. The results demonstrated a
complete absence of material that would have been derived from euthanized
dogs or cats. The sensitivity of this method is 0.005% on a weight/weight
basis; that is, the method can detect a minimum of 5 pounds of rendered
remains in 50 tons of finished feed. Presently, it is assumed that the
pentobarbital residues are entering pet foods from euthanized, rendered
cattle or even horses."
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/efoi/DFreport.htm

Is it really true that you keep rephrasing a question until you get the
answer you want???

I suggest that you get your story straight the next time you post such
inaccurate information.


Good idea... You should follow your own advice.. but then you wouldn't sell
many books...



These three also continue to insist that the pentobarbital in pet food
poses no danger.


So does the FDA/CVM!

"Thus, the results of the assessment led CVM to conclude that it is highly
unlikely a dog consuming dry dog food will experience any adverse effects
from exposures to the low levels of pentobarbital found in CVM's dog food
surveys."

FDA/CVM Report on the risk from pentobarbital in dog food
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/efoi/DFreport.htm




They measured ONE liver enzyme


More innuenso! You're implying the test wasn't valid because the FDA tested
one enzyme. But you *failed* to mention is that the enzyme that was tested
is the *most sensitive" enzyme to pentobarbital!

"In dogs, the most sensitive biological response to pentobarbital is an
increase in the production of cytochrome P450 enzymes, which is why the
scientists chose that as the best indicator of biological effect. If a low
level of pentobarbital did not cause a dog to produce additional cytochrome
P450 enzymes, then scientists could assume that the pentobarbital at that
low level had no significant effect on the dog."



I don't have the time to spend with people like
you


...who you can't bullsh!t and don't fall for your innuendo!

I'm *very* happy you posted to this group because now people can see your
books are largely based on *your* conclusions, innuendo, conjecture and
scare tactics which the real facts *do not* support

You're a manipulator of the worst kind! You play and profit on peoples'
fear!


 




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