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#51
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message om... There will be no more shouting as I will not be responding to these people again. That's the only way you can weasel out of answering questions you can't answer and don't want to answer! LOL! Lauren uses the same routine when I ask her to back up one of her scare tactics and rumors.... Now I know where she gets it from... along with most of her other bullsh!t... You're not as slick as you think you are (although you think everyone else is stupid), at least you know when you're outmatched... |
#52
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"E. Kunze" wrote in message ... On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:43:22 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: Please pardon me for jumping in, Phil. BTW: Hi again :-). How're ya Eb? Long time no see. Let's look at the pet food industry, an industry that makes billions per year. So does, GM, Ford and about a 1000 other companies.... A decent product should guarantee a manufacturer the adequate income. Otherwise, we would never find somebody to offer decent products. Let me set the record straight about a few things. I never said or implied commercial cat foods are better than home-cooked meals. Nothing beats a home-cooked meal as long as person preparing the food understands their feline's nutritional needs and knows how to make sure those needs are met. Unfortunately, this is not the case for the overwhelmingly vast majority of cat owners. They have neither the time, and/or desire, and/or finances and/or knowledge nor the time and/or desire to aquire the knowledge. What I take exception to, and will not tolerate is the small group of fanatics trying to scare people with innuendo, rumors, conjecture and scare tactics into following their agenda for which most pet owners are not prepared and can have serious consequences. For instance, if a person is led to believe that she/he cannot care for a cat properly unless that person prepares homecooked meals, that person may not adopt a cat. Another consequence could be rushing into preparing home-made meals in a panic because those fanatics led her/him to believe commercial pet food was "poison"... even though hundreds of millions of cats have lived into their late teens and early twenties for generations on commercial cat food.. Sure the commercial pet food industry is an extension of the human food industry... so what? Those fanatics denigrate commercial pet food because they're not getting champagne for the price of a can of beer. To compare home-cooked meals with commercial pet food, then denigrate commercail food because its not the same quality is ridiculous if not asinine. There are different types of pet food, and people should buy what they xan afford. They should not be strong-armed or made to feel guily or scared into preparing homecooked meals for their cats if they're not prepared to do so -- The bottom line is if 1/10 of the scare tactics and innuendo those fanatics spread about commercial pet were true, millions of cats would be dropping like flies every day instead of living into their late teens and early twenties.. Phil. |
#53
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"E. Kunze" wrote in message ... On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:43:22 -0400, "Phil P." wrote: Please pardon me for jumping in, Phil. BTW: Hi again :-). How're ya Eb? Long time no see. Let's look at the pet food industry, an industry that makes billions per year. So does, GM, Ford and about a 1000 other companies.... A decent product should guarantee a manufacturer the adequate income. Otherwise, we would never find somebody to offer decent products. Let me set the record straight about a few things. I never said or implied commercial cat foods are better than home-cooked meals. Nothing beats a home-cooked meal as long as person preparing the food understands their feline's nutritional needs and knows how to make sure those needs are met. Unfortunately, this is not the case for the overwhelmingly vast majority of cat owners. They have neither the time, and/or desire, and/or finances and/or knowledge nor the time and/or desire to aquire the knowledge. What I take exception to, and will not tolerate is the small group of fanatics trying to scare people with innuendo, rumors, conjecture and scare tactics into following their agenda for which most pet owners are not prepared and can have serious consequences. For instance, if a person is led to believe that she/he cannot care for a cat properly unless that person prepares homecooked meals, that person may not adopt a cat. Another consequence could be rushing into preparing home-made meals in a panic because those fanatics led her/him to believe commercial pet food was "poison"... even though hundreds of millions of cats have lived into their late teens and early twenties for generations on commercial cat food.. Sure the commercial pet food industry is an extension of the human food industry... so what? Those fanatics denigrate commercial pet food because they're not getting champagne for the price of a can of beer. To compare home-cooked meals with commercial pet food, then denigrate commercail food because its not the same quality is ridiculous if not asinine. There are different types of pet food, and people should buy what they xan afford. They should not be strong-armed or made to feel guily or scared into preparing homecooked meals for their cats if they're not prepared to do so -- The bottom line is if 1/10 of the scare tactics and innuendo those fanatics spread about commercial pet were true, millions of cats would be dropping like flies every day instead of living into their late teens and early twenties.. Phil. |
#54
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"Cheryl" wrote in message ...
In , Phil P. composed with style: Lets see some documented cases of pentobarbital toxicity in veterinary literature - e.g. peer=reviewed veterinary medical journals? Otherwise, the issue is nothing more than a scare tactic and you're nothing more than a manipulating *scaremonger* who profits from scaring people needlessly. I don't know about pentobarbital toxiciity but I do know that in the cats that I've had I think I've had a very bad record and I sure do want to know why. Allergies, megacolon, IBD... something is wrong here. This will certainly get some flames directed my way, but unquestionably the genetics of cats are the biggest issue around. You would not believe the calls that I hear about from breeders wanting to get one more breeding out of an animal with a genetic disease. The dog breeder who wanted to know if a certain therapeutic diet would interfer with reproduction beacause she wanted at least one more litter. The number of cat breeders who have confirmed renal failure cats in their line and continue to breed and blame the genetic fault on something, anything, else. I'll not name names here, but I can remember a certain cat breeder in my hoome town in Idaho who had a massive problem keeping kittens alive after birth. Some were born with extra legs, some had no lungs, some simply faded and died after birth. In looking back through records I learned she had LINE bred 27 succesive generations, father to daughter, mother to son, brother to sister, grandfather to grandaughter etc etc. 27 straight in line sets of breeding. You know what she thought the problem was - ethoxyquinin the food. No food, no matter how well prepared, can overcome genetics. |
#55
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"Cheryl" wrote in message ...
In , Phil P. composed with style: Lets see some documented cases of pentobarbital toxicity in veterinary literature - e.g. peer=reviewed veterinary medical journals? Otherwise, the issue is nothing more than a scare tactic and you're nothing more than a manipulating *scaremonger* who profits from scaring people needlessly. I don't know about pentobarbital toxiciity but I do know that in the cats that I've had I think I've had a very bad record and I sure do want to know why. Allergies, megacolon, IBD... something is wrong here. This will certainly get some flames directed my way, but unquestionably the genetics of cats are the biggest issue around. You would not believe the calls that I hear about from breeders wanting to get one more breeding out of an animal with a genetic disease. The dog breeder who wanted to know if a certain therapeutic diet would interfer with reproduction beacause she wanted at least one more litter. The number of cat breeders who have confirmed renal failure cats in their line and continue to breed and blame the genetic fault on something, anything, else. I'll not name names here, but I can remember a certain cat breeder in my hoome town in Idaho who had a massive problem keeping kittens alive after birth. Some were born with extra legs, some had no lungs, some simply faded and died after birth. In looking back through records I learned she had LINE bred 27 succesive generations, father to daughter, mother to son, brother to sister, grandfather to grandaughter etc etc. 27 straight in line sets of breeding. You know what she thought the problem was - ethoxyquinin the food. No food, no matter how well prepared, can overcome genetics. |
#57
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(Ann Martin) wrote in message . com...
olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ... They ramble on about calcium, phosphorus, nutrients in the food, all of which can be sourced from garbage, and then we are told we should be more concerned about kidney disease etc. in pets then basically what we are feeding them. Yea what the heck, let's just "ramble" on about things that have NEVER been proven to cause a single animals' illness or death and totally forget about real disease and real deaths. Here you go putting your stamp of approval on foods (Halo)that may have levels of phosphorus well in excess of maximum recommended levels. When in fact those levels of phosphorus have been unequivocally PROVEN to cause early death in undetected renal failure kitties and then you have the unmitigated gall to suggest somebody is "rambling" on about renal failure. What a monstrous joke to play on the public, scare the heck out of them over things that have NEVER been proven to hurt one single kitty and then imply that worrying about things like phosphorus is of no concern. That is simply unconscionable in my opinion. |
#58
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In om,
Steve Crane composed with style: No food, no matter how well prepared, can overcome genetics. I understand where you're coming from, I really do. But I can't see genetics playing a part in the case of my cats. If it is, it's a fluke because they each came from different places, different circumstances. Way different ages. Now the one with allergies, I'm sure genetics play a part in his other problem - bad teeth - and he's only estimated to be about 2 years old. rhetorical question Hhhmmmm... or is that the food too? /rhetorical question |
#59
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In om,
Steve Crane composed with style: No food, no matter how well prepared, can overcome genetics. I understand where you're coming from, I really do. But I can't see genetics playing a part in the case of my cats. If it is, it's a fluke because they each came from different places, different circumstances. Way different ages. Now the one with allergies, I'm sure genetics play a part in his other problem - bad teeth - and he's only estimated to be about 2 years old. rhetorical question Hhhmmmm... or is that the food too? /rhetorical question |
#60
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"Ann Martin" wrote in message om... I've quote from letter received from the FDA/CVM as to their knowledge that pets ARE used in commercial pet foods According to the official FDA website,Miss-Leading Martin is stating *false* information. "CVM scientists, as part of their investigation, developed a test to detect dog and cat DNA in the protein of the dog food. All samples from the most recent dog food survey (2000) that tested positive for pentobarbital, as well as a subset of samples that tested negative, were examined for the presence of remains derived from dogs or cats. The results demonstrated a complete absence of material that would have been derived from euthanized dogs or cats. The sensitivity of this method is 0.005% on a weight/weight basis; that is, the method can detect a minimum of 5 pounds of rendered remains in 50 tons of finished feed. Presently, it is assumed that the pentobarbital residues are entering pet foods from euthanized, rendered cattle or even horses." http://www.fda.gov/cvm/efoi/DFreport.htm Is it really true that you keep rephrasing a question until you get the answer you want??? I suggest that you get your story straight the next time you post such inaccurate information. Good idea... You should follow your own advice.. but then you wouldn't sell many books... These three also continue to insist that the pentobarbital in pet food poses no danger. So does the FDA/CVM! "Thus, the results of the assessment led CVM to conclude that it is highly unlikely a dog consuming dry dog food will experience any adverse effects from exposures to the low levels of pentobarbital found in CVM's dog food surveys." FDA/CVM Report on the risk from pentobarbital in dog food http://www.fda.gov/cvm/efoi/DFreport.htm They measured ONE liver enzyme More innuenso! You're implying the test wasn't valid because the FDA tested one enzyme. But you *failed* to mention is that the enzyme that was tested is the *most sensitive" enzyme to pentobarbital! "In dogs, the most sensitive biological response to pentobarbital is an increase in the production of cytochrome P450 enzymes, which is why the scientists chose that as the best indicator of biological effect. If a low level of pentobarbital did not cause a dog to produce additional cytochrome P450 enzymes, then scientists could assume that the pentobarbital at that low level had no significant effect on the dog." I don't have the time to spend with people like you ...who you can't bullsh!t and don't fall for your innuendo! I'm *very* happy you posted to this group because now people can see your books are largely based on *your* conclusions, innuendo, conjecture and scare tactics which the real facts *do not* support You're a manipulator of the worst kind! You play and profit on peoples' fear! |
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