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#11
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"Joe Canuck" wrote in message
... Okay, this has just come to my attention. Can anyone explain why there is a discrepancy between the ingredient list on the bag and the ingredient list on the website for Science Diet Adult Chicken & Rice Recipe? From the Hill's website: (deletia) From the bag (which I bought one week ago): (deletia) So what is the deal with the subtle difference? My educated guess is that the web-based ingedients list is provided for a worldwide audience, and for general informational purposes only, and thus uses more general terminology. The bag label ingredients list is authoritative, and specific to the country of sale, (which I presume from the Queen's English spellings is Canada) which likely has more specific labelling requirements. There's generally no national rules (nor is it practical for there to be, really) governing web content, while every county has generally has its own specific rules governing labelling of retail packages. The U.S. likely has less specific requirements (e.g. "mixed tocopherols" versus "BHA, propyl gallate") than Canada, and since Hill's is a U.S. company, their web author took the text from a for-sale-in-U.S. bag. I found a _Canadian_ site, http://www.agsci.ubc.ca/courses/fnh/410/lipids/5_2.htm, that discusses the chemical composition and application of antioxidants in food preservation, including BHT, BHA, and tocoperols. |
#13
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From: "ChakaShiva"
"Phil P." a écrit dans le message de news: ... "Joe Canuck" wrote in message ... Okay, this has just come to my attention. Can anyone explain why there is a discrepancy between the ingredient list on the bag and the ingredient list on the website for Science Diet Adult Chicken & Rice Recipe? From the Hill's website: Ingredients Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), chicken liver flavor, DL- methionine, taurine, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, beta carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). From the bag (which I bought one week ago): Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, animal fat(preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), chicken liver flavour, DL-methionine, taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, beta-caroten, minerals (potassium choride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium, selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). So what is the deal with the subtle difference? Prolly using up the last print run of bags before the change. That type of package is very expensive to print and manufacture. Printing very high quantities in single press runs significantly reduces the cost per bag. Phil. Then it is permitted to have a description on the bag differing from the true content? Interesting. I would presume more that the bag came from an old batch. I sometimes go to a little local supermarket when I have not time to go to town for my shopping. I've been seeing the very same unique bag of Science Diet kibble lying on the shelf now for certainly over a year :-). There's no mistake, its the same one because it is ripped and taped on one side. Elaine Yikes! It's still on the shelf? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#14
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Interesting shift in ingredients. Back in 95, my 13-year-olf cat
developed what two vets said was an unusual form of kidney cancer: both kidneys were tremendously enlarged and practically all cancerous. The levels in the blood work just 5 months before indicated nothing. Both vets said it was very rare to see both kidneys with that type of cancer. Shortly after that, during an informal chat with a woman who worked for a pet insurance company (who sent me an article in the mail), I heard that there was research indicating a strong link between bha and bht in science diet and kidney cancer in cats. My previous cat had eaten that her whole life. I had heard that Flynt River Ranch was good for cats with urinary problems, so up until his recent blockage, my present companion had been on that his whole life. The moral of the story (to quote an icon from my young adult years): If it's not one thing, it's another. You think you're serving premium cuisine and it turns out to be high-priced sewage! We do the best we can and hope to find providers near where we live who understand our beloved felines.It's nice to have a forum like this where people can share their experiences. I suspect what works for one cat, might not, for another. The intuition in discerning what to do is the difference between an average vet (far too many of those in my present neck of the woods) and a good one (which, thank god, I finally found). peace, a. On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, PawsForThought wrote: From: "ChakaShiva" "Phil P." a =E9crit dans le message de news: ... "Joe Canuck" wrote in message ... Okay, this has just come to my attention. Can anyone explain why the= re is a discrepancy between the ingredient list on the bag and the ingredient list on the website for Science Diet Adult Chicken & Rice Recipe? From the Hill's website: Ingredients Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, co= rn meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), chicken liver flavor, DL- methionine, taurine, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganou= s oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, beta carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin = D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a sour= ce of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B1= 2 supplement). From the bag (which I bought one week ago): Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, co= rn meal, animal fat(preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid)= , chicken liver flavour, DL-methionine, taurine, preserved with BHT an= d BHA, beta-caroten, minerals (potassium choride, calcium sulfate, sal= t, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calciu= m iodate, sodium, selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic ac= id (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B1= 2 supplement). So what is the deal with the subtle difference? Prolly using up the last print run of bags before the change. That ty= pe of package is very expensive to print and manufacture. Printing very hig= h quantities in single press runs significantly reduces the cost per bag= =2E Phil. Then it is permitted to have a description on the bag differing from the true content? Interesting. I would presume more that the bag came from an old batch. I sometimes = go to a little local supermarket when I have not time to go to town for my shopping. I've been seeing the very same unique bag of Science Diet kib= ble lying on the shelf now for certainly over a year :-). There's no mistak= e, its the same one because it is ripped and taped on one side. Elaine Yikes! It's still on the shelf? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#15
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Interesting shift in ingredients. Back in 95, my 13-year-olf cat
developed what two vets said was an unusual form of kidney cancer: both kidneys were tremendously enlarged and practically all cancerous. The levels in the blood work just 5 months before indicated nothing. Both vets said it was very rare to see both kidneys with that type of cancer. Shortly after that, during an informal chat with a woman who worked for a pet insurance company (who sent me an article in the mail), I heard that there was research indicating a strong link between bha and bht in science diet and kidney cancer in cats. My previous cat had eaten that her whole life. I had heard that Flynt River Ranch was good for cats with urinary problems, so up until his recent blockage, my present companion had been on that his whole life. The moral of the story (to quote an icon from my young adult years): If it's not one thing, it's another. You think you're serving premium cuisine and it turns out to be high-priced sewage! We do the best we can and hope to find providers near where we live who understand our beloved felines.It's nice to have a forum like this where people can share their experiences. I suspect what works for one cat, might not, for another. The intuition in discerning what to do is the difference between an average vet (far too many of those in my present neck of the woods) and a good one (which, thank god, I finally found). peace, a. On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, PawsForThought wrote: From: "ChakaShiva" "Phil P." a =E9crit dans le message de news: ... "Joe Canuck" wrote in message ... Okay, this has just come to my attention. Can anyone explain why the= re is a discrepancy between the ingredient list on the bag and the ingredient list on the website for Science Diet Adult Chicken & Rice Recipe? From the Hill's website: Ingredients Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, co= rn meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), chicken liver flavor, DL- methionine, taurine, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganou= s oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, beta carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin = D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a sour= ce of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B1= 2 supplement). From the bag (which I bought one week ago): Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, co= rn meal, animal fat(preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid)= , chicken liver flavour, DL-methionine, taurine, preserved with BHT an= d BHA, beta-caroten, minerals (potassium choride, calcium sulfate, sal= t, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calciu= m iodate, sodium, selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic ac= id (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B1= 2 supplement). So what is the deal with the subtle difference? Prolly using up the last print run of bags before the change. That ty= pe of package is very expensive to print and manufacture. Printing very hig= h quantities in single press runs significantly reduces the cost per bag= =2E Phil. Then it is permitted to have a description on the bag differing from the true content? Interesting. I would presume more that the bag came from an old batch. I sometimes = go to a little local supermarket when I have not time to go to town for my shopping. I've been seeing the very same unique bag of Science Diet kib= ble lying on the shelf now for certainly over a year :-). There's no mistak= e, its the same one because it is ripped and taped on one side. Elaine Yikes! It's still on the shelf? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#16
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"PawsForThought" a écrit dans le message de news: ... From: "ChakaShiva" "Phil P." a écrit dans le message de news: ... "Joe Canuck" wrote in message ... Okay, this has just come to my attention. Can anyone explain why there is a discrepancy between the ingredient list on the bag and the ingredient list on the website for Science Diet Adult Chicken & Rice Recipe? From the Hill's website: Ingredients Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), chicken liver flavor, DL- methionine, taurine, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, beta carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). From the bag (which I bought one week ago): Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, animal fat(preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), chicken liver flavour, DL-methionine, taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, beta-caroten, minerals (potassium choride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium, selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). So what is the deal with the subtle difference? Prolly using up the last print run of bags before the change. That type of package is very expensive to print and manufacture. Printing very high quantities in single press runs significantly reduces the cost per bag. Phil. Then it is permitted to have a description on the bag differing from the true content? Interesting. I would presume more that the bag came from an old batch. I sometimes go to a little local supermarket when I have not time to go to town for my shopping. I've been seeing the very same unique bag of Science Diet kibble lying on the shelf now for certainly over a year :-). There's no mistake, its the same one because it is ripped and taped on one side. Elaine Yikes! It's still on the shelf? I don't know now, its been long since I've been there. I do like to go in town most of the time where I can get all my organic stuff. Its an exceptionnal case. Its a supermarket in a very small town that is close to their people and I suppose someone asked for a bag, they ordered two and never sold the other. But even so, in remote areas such as mine, rotation of these products is likely to be very slow, even when sold at the vet. I remember last year going to the vet to ask for samples of SD and they only had one flavor of canned to offer. Elaine |
#17
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"PawsForThought" a écrit dans le message de news: ... From: "ChakaShiva" "Phil P." a écrit dans le message de news: ... "Joe Canuck" wrote in message ... Okay, this has just come to my attention. Can anyone explain why there is a discrepancy between the ingredient list on the bag and the ingredient list on the website for Science Diet Adult Chicken & Rice Recipe? From the Hill's website: Ingredients Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), chicken liver flavor, DL- methionine, taurine, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, beta carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). From the bag (which I bought one week ago): Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, animal fat(preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), chicken liver flavour, DL-methionine, taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, beta-caroten, minerals (potassium choride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium, selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). So what is the deal with the subtle difference? Prolly using up the last print run of bags before the change. That type of package is very expensive to print and manufacture. Printing very high quantities in single press runs significantly reduces the cost per bag. Phil. Then it is permitted to have a description on the bag differing from the true content? Interesting. I would presume more that the bag came from an old batch. I sometimes go to a little local supermarket when I have not time to go to town for my shopping. I've been seeing the very same unique bag of Science Diet kibble lying on the shelf now for certainly over a year :-). There's no mistake, its the same one because it is ripped and taped on one side. Elaine Yikes! It's still on the shelf? I don't know now, its been long since I've been there. I do like to go in town most of the time where I can get all my organic stuff. Its an exceptionnal case. Its a supermarket in a very small town that is close to their people and I suppose someone asked for a bag, they ordered two and never sold the other. But even so, in remote areas such as mine, rotation of these products is likely to be very slow, even when sold at the vet. I remember last year going to the vet to ask for samples of SD and they only had one flavor of canned to offer. Elaine |
#18
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Phil P. wrote:
"Joe Canuck" wrote in message ... Okay, this has just come to my attention. Can anyone explain why there is a discrepancy between the ingredient list on the bag and the ingredient list on the website for Science Diet Adult Chicken & Rice Recipe? From the Hill's website: Ingredients Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), chicken liver flavor, DL- methionine, taurine, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, beta carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). From the bag (which I bought one week ago): Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, animal fat(preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), chicken liver flavour, DL-methionine, taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, beta-caroten, minerals (potassium choride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium, selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). So what is the deal with the subtle difference? Prolly using up the last print run of bags before the change. That type of package is very expensive to print and manufacture. Printing very high quantities in single press runs significantly reduces the cost per bag. Phil. That's most likely the case. But it is possible that Hill's website is a bit out of date. Rich |
#19
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Phil P. wrote:
"Joe Canuck" wrote in message ... Okay, this has just come to my attention. Can anyone explain why there is a discrepancy between the ingredient list on the bag and the ingredient list on the website for Science Diet Adult Chicken & Rice Recipe? From the Hill's website: Ingredients Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), chicken liver flavor, DL- methionine, taurine, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, minerals (potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, beta carotene, vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). From the bag (which I bought one week ago): Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, corn meal, animal fat(preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), chicken liver flavour, DL-methionine, taurine, preserved with BHT and BHA, beta-caroten, minerals (potassium choride, calcium sulfate, salt, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium, selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). So what is the deal with the subtle difference? Prolly using up the last print run of bags before the change. That type of package is very expensive to print and manufacture. Printing very high quantities in single press runs significantly reduces the cost per bag. Phil. That's most likely the case. But it is possible that Hill's website is a bit out of date. Rich |
#20
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Joe Canuck wrote in message m...
Okay, this has just come to my attention. Can anyone explain why there is a discrepancy between the ingredient list on the bag and the ingredient list on the website for Science Diet Adult Chicken & Rice Recipe? Joe et al, The website is updated within ~24 hours of any change in the formula. The pre-printed bags can often be printed months in advance. In this case the old bag you have contains the old "artificial antioxidant" labelling. That does not mean the product contains artificial antioxidants, simply old bags being used until they are gone. The product was changed months ago. I'd be curious to know the date on the older bag. Elsewhere on this thread was a comment about BHA BHT causing cancer. That is pure internet fantasy. There has ever been a single animal that has ever been shown to have sufferred any negative consequences as a result of the use of artificial antioxidants. None, zip, zero nada. You have to understand the difference between the testing levels and what is used in pet food. If Vitamin E, Beta Carotene, Sodium, Selenium, and several other ingredients were fed at the same grossly exagerated levels, all of them would be fatal. The majority of studies were done at 1% or 10,000 parts per million, the amounts used in pet food are about 30 parts per million, more than 300 times the levels used in pet foods. Most people can take 2 aspirin without a problem, anyone who ingested 600 aspirin would suffer a fatal result. Lots of companies like Flint River use scare tactics to try to sell the food. One of Flint Rivers favorite scare tactics is to claim that a pet would ingest 26 pounds of preservatives in a year. This is of course completely ludicrous. I've spent some time trying to track this number down. And in every case, every web site that makes the claims refers to another web site, but nobody will take responsibility for the false number or explain how it was derived. It would take about 393,000 pounds of food to provide 26 pounds of artificial antioxidants. Not even a dog the size of Tyranosaurus Rex would consume that much food in a year. |
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