Abbey's ultrasound/no good news

Phil P. wrote:

Oh no. You can't imagine how much I'm hoping this will resolve. If the
rutin resolves the chylo, she can still have a decent quality of life. If
her fibrosing pleuritis was as bad the ultrasonographer thinks, she would
have difficulty breathing because she wouldn't be able to expand her lungs-
and she isn't.

Well, she doesn't breathe *normally," it's faster than my other cats
breathe. And you can see her ribs because of her sides being shaved
from the chest taps and you can tell that it isn't normal breathing.
So there is some difficulty, it just isn't stopping her from eating,
playing, sleeping, hanging out yet.

She's not getting her full rutin dose. She's very, very hard to pill
and the lasix is all I can get down her regularly so I grind the rutin
up and put it on her canned food. If I put too much on, she won't eat
it, so it's a delicate balance. I've tried all the suggestions people
have made to pill her but, with her, the hard part is *getting* her.
Once I get her, I can pill her although she's not too pleased. So
liquids, syringes, etc. aren't the issue.

Right now she's hiding from me, she knows I can't be trusted. And that
makes me sad that during her last days she will be avoiding me instead
of being pampered. Tony is her favorite and he's not here for another
12 days.

I tried sticking a lasix in her chicken tonight, she loves chicken so
she's going to get it everyday. The chicken is eaten but the lasix is
on the floor. I'm going to try to grind that up, too, and put it in
her food but it probably won't work either.


Candance, make your decisions based on Abbey- not the numbers or opinions.
Cats are infamous for making liars of vets!

I hope so.

Candace

{{{{Candace}}} I'm so sorry to read this -- please know we're all sending
purrs for her quality of life to be as good as possible for as long as
possible.
Christine and Omar, Oreo, Midnight, Robin & Tucker
"Candace" wrote in message
oups.com...
Abbey just got back from her ultrasound (echocardiogram). She has no
heart problems; we were hoping she would have heart disease that could
be treated. Her lungs are badly scarred from the chyle, which we knew.
She has a mass of about 1" x 3/4" that they cannot tell if it's a
tumor at the base of her heart or just especially thick scarring. They
cannot really biopsy it because of location. Even if it's a tumor, her
lung damage is so bad that it can't be reversed. They didn't tap her
chest again because the fluid that is in there right now is accumulated
in several small pockets and would require many sticks. Her breathing
is not currently labored. They don't know if they can do taps in the
future; they can try but if it's in these pockets, it's not going to
work. They did not see any holes in her thoracic wall. We are now
just going to treat her with lasix and rutin, as we have done, and
watch her quality of life. I think they were telling me that it may be
time to let her go when she declines again...could be days, could be
weeks. I guess the lung damage is the major issue.

So, I guess there isn't much hope at this point. I hope she doesn't
need to be PTS before Tony gets back from China. On 6/17 we will have
had her 4 years, having found her abandoned in a desert park as a tiny
baby.

Candace

"Candace" wrote in message
oups.com...
I've tried all the suggestions people
have made to pill her but, with her, the hard part is *getting* her.
Once I get her, I can pill her although she's not too pleased. So
liquids, syringes, etc. aren't the issue.

Right now she's hiding from me, she knows I can't be trusted. And that
makes me sad that during her last days she will be avoiding me instead
of being pampered. Tony is her favorite and he's not here for another
12 days.

I tried sticking a lasix in her chicken tonight, she loves chicken so
she's going to get it everyday. The chicken is eaten but the lasix is
on the floor. I'm going to try to grind that up, too, and put it in
her food but it probably won't work either.
Candace

Candace,
Can you get those raisins with a candy type coating? They're called yoghurt
raisins.
We usually had some in a candy dish on the coffee table.
I ask this because we once had a little dog, Heidi, who took lasix when she
developed congestive heart failure. Instead of pilling her twice a day, I
decided to make a slit in a yoghurt raisin with my thumbnail and insert a
lasix pill and gave one to her at 7 a.m. and the second at 7 p.m.
Mac, one of our cats, noticed that Heidi was getting a lot of attention at
the candy dish and came over and sat next to her. So, I gave Mac a yoghurt
raisin without the pill and he loved it.
It became a routine. Twice a day Heidi and Mac would sit by the table with
the candy dish, waiting for the treat. If I was a little late, Heidi came
to remind me. (Of course, she got a little confused when we switched between
Daylight Saving time and Standard.)
If Abbey will eat a raisin (with or without the candy coating), maybe you
could slip the lasix in it and get her to take it that way. If it works,
she might start to trust you again and come asking for her "treat" instead
of running away.
I'm sure it's hard on both of you with Tony gone for so long. It's probably
hard on him, too being away and not there to help.
Hugs to all of you.
Annie

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:24:58 -0500, "Annie Wxill"
wrote:


If Abbey will eat a raisin (with or without the candy coating), maybe you
could slip the lasix in it and get her to take it that way. If it works,
she might start to trust you again and come asking for her "treat" instead
of running away.

This is a very bery bad idea. Raisins and grapes are toxic to
dogs and cats. There is no current 'safe' or 'unsafe' dose, as the
mechanism of poisoning is unknown at this time. Do not give grapes or
raisins to cats or dogs.

http://www.aspca.org/site/News2?page...ticle&id=16645
http://www.hilltopanimalhospital.com/grapes%20toxic.htm



Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

"Orchid" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:24:58 -0500, "Annie Wxill"
.... This is a very bery bad idea. Raisins and grapes are toxic to
dogs and cats. There is no current 'safe' or 'unsafe' dose, as the
mechanism of poisoning is unknown at this time. Do not give grapes or
raisins to cats or dogs.

http://www.aspca.org/site/News2?page...ticle&id=16645
http://www.hilltopanimalhospital.com/grapes%20toxic.htm

Orchid

Wow! I had no idea. I even mentioned it to the vet at the time, and he
didn't give any warnings not to give the raisins. Neither the dog nor cat
showed any unusual symptoms. The dog lived another year with congestive
heart failure on the two-raisin a day with lasix routine. It was the heart
failure that eventually did her in. The cat lived longer, but we stopped
the daily raisins when the dog died. So, maybe we got lucky.
Annie

Hi Candace,

Sorry things aren't looking so great for Abbey. It's tough -- all of the
decisions when they are so sick, how much to do for them, the feelings
of guilt when trying to treat them even though you are doing things to
help them.

I hope to gawd she perks up and is feeling better when Tony gets home.

In the meantime, is there another treat you could give her with her
pills? I know that dance of not "poisoning" their food with medicine so
that they just stop eating. Is there something else, like beef baby food
or a cooked meat that is a complete treat to her and could hide the
pill? We had a cat that loved yogart but was not allowed to have it
often. We added pills to that when she was very ill.

Good luck with Abbey. She seems like a very strong cat, and feisty
enough to keep going for a long time to come!

Rhonda

Candace wrote:


She's not getting her full rutin dose. She's very, very hard to pill
and the lasix is all I can get down her regularly so I grind the rutin
up and put it on her canned food. If I put too much on, she won't eat
it, so it's a delicate balance. I've tried all the suggestions people
have made to pill her but, with her, the hard part is *getting* her.
Once I get her, I can pill her although she's not too pleased. So
liquids, syringes, etc. aren't the issue.

Annie Wxill wrote:

Wow! I had no idea. I even mentioned it to the vet at the time, and he
didn't give any warnings not to give the raisins. Neither the dog nor cat
showed any unusual symptoms. The dog lived another year with congestive
heart failure on the two-raisin a day with lasix routine. It was the heart
failure that eventually did her in. The cat lived longer, but we stopped
the daily raisins when the dog died. So, maybe we got lucky.
Annie

Well, it sounded like a good idea although Abbey is not one for
enjoying people food much. Chicken is her only weakness. So I was
going to try the yogurt raisin thing as soon as I could remember where
I saw them recently but I guess I won't now.

Chicken is hard to hide a pill in as it falls apart easily.
Fortunately, she has been eating her food today with the ground up
lasix and rutin in it.

Candace

"Candace" wrote in message
oups.com...
Phil P. wrote:

Oh no. You can't imagine how much I'm hoping this will resolve. If the
rutin resolves the chylo, she can still have a decent quality of life.
If
her fibrosing pleuritis was as bad the ultrasonographer thinks, she
would
have difficulty breathing because she wouldn't be able to expand her
lungs-
and she isn't.

Well, she doesn't breathe *normally," it's faster than my other cats
breathe. And you can see her ribs because of her sides being shaved
from the chest taps and you can tell that it isn't normal breathing.

Candace, email me with a mailing address, I'll send you an Areochamber and a
bronchial dilator (albuterol) . This will dilate her airways and allow her
RBCs to carry more O2. The increased O2 intake will help make her lungs
pump more O2 with less work and compensate for her restricted lung expansion
caused by the fibrosing pleuritis.

Here's what an Aerochamber looks like and how it works:

http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_asth...bronchitis.htm

http://www.maxshouse.com/inhalation_...ay_disease.htm



So there is some difficulty, it just isn't stopping her from eating,
playing, sleeping, hanging out yet.

She's not getting her full rutin dose. She's very, very hard to pill

See:

http://www.maxshouse.com/Medicating_Your_Cat.htm

Don't make a big deal of pilling- pet her as if nothing is happening- Hold
the pill in your left hand and tilt her head back with your right hand
squeezing your your thumb and middle finger to open her mouth at the same
time. In the same continious motion, just drop the pill into her
laryngopharynx. Hold her mouth shut and blow in her face or scratch the
base of her tail until she licks her lips- this means she swallowed the
pill. I use this technique on *ferals*- so I know it works! ;-)


and the lasix is all I can get down her regularly so I grind the rutin
up and put it on her canned food. If I put too much on, she won't eat
it, so it's a delicate balance. I've tried all the suggestions people
have made to pill her but, with her, the hard part is *getting* her.
Once I get her, I can pill her although she's not too pleased. So
liquids, syringes, etc. aren't the issue.

Right now she's hiding from me, she knows I can't be trusted. And that
makes me sad that during her last days she will be avoiding me instead
of being pampered.

Don't chase her or restrain her. Hold and pet her a few times before you
use my technique so she doesn't associate holding and petting with pilling.
The trick to pilling is *speed*. Once you get the hang of it- its over
before she knows what happened.


Tony is her favorite and he's not here for another
12 days.

I think she'll breeze through another 12 days until he's home.


I tried sticking a lasix in her chicken tonight, she loves chicken so
she's going to get it everyday. The chicken is eaten but the lasix is
on the floor. I'm going to try to grind that up, too, and put it in
her food but it probably won't work either.

After you grind up the pill, wet your finger, pick up a little medication on
you finger and put a dab on her nose. The medication on her nose wills
satiate her olfactory system- and licking it off will will satiate her
gustatory system so that the rest of the medication in the food will be
eaten undetected. Sounds crazy but it works.





Candance, make your decisions based on Abbey- not the numbers or
opinions.
Cats are infamous for making liars of vets!

I hope so.


Candace, I'm not just saying this to give you false hope. One of my vets is
a Diplomate of the ACVECC. He has pulled more cats through no-win
situations than I can remember- when local vets saw no hope and recomended
euthanasia. A vet's opinion is only based on his experience- doesn't mean
its carved in stone or absolute. Not many vets have expereince with chylo
cats. Several vets recommended euthanasia for our chylo cats- who were in
pretty bad shape for awhile. They're still kicking years later.

It may be hard not to anthropomophize, but a cat's basic instinct is
survival- they don't attach the same emotional bondage to treatment- no
matter how intense it is- that we do. They've proven that to me time and
again. Just try to think like a cat- with the only objective of survival
and you'll pull her through. I don't say this to many people- but Sherry
also will attest to the cat's indomitable spirit!

Keep the faith!

Phil

Phil P. wrote:

Candace, email me with a mailing address, I'll send you an Areochamber and a
bronchial dilator (albuterol) . This will dilate her airways and allow her
RBCs to carry more O2. The increased O2 intake will help make her lungs
pump more O2 with less work and compensate for her restricted lung expansion
caused by the fibrosing pleuritis.

I just did, thanks! I hope I had the right email address. With
Google, you can't see the full email address.

http://www.maxshouse.com/Medicating_Your_Cat.htm

Don't make a big deal of pilling- pet her as if nothing is happening- Hold
the pill in your left hand and tilt her head back with your right hand
squeezing your your thumb and middle finger to open her mouth at the same
time. In the same continious motion, just drop the pill into her
laryngopharynx. Hold her mouth shut and blow in her face or scratch the
base of her tail until she licks her lips- this means she swallowed the
pill. I use this technique on *ferals*- so I know it works! ;-)

Actually, I can pill pretty well. With Abbey, it's *getting* her. She
doesn't trust me anymore. Tonight I got her while she was sleeping,
though, and it didn't seem to traumatize her.

I think she'll breeze through another 12 days until he's home.

I hope so. It worries me that they don't think they can tap her again,
though. That leaves me with zero options.

After you grind up the pill, wet your finger, pick up a little medication on
you finger and put a dab on her nose. The medication on her nose wills
satiate her olfactory system- and licking it off will will satiate her
gustatory system so that the rest of the medication in the food will be
eaten undetected. Sounds crazy but it works.

Okay, I'll try that.

It may be hard not to anthropomophize, but a cat's basic instinct is
survival- they don't attach the same emotional bondage to treatment- no
matter how intense it is- that we do. They've proven that to me time and
again. Just try to think like a cat- with the only objective of survival
and you'll pull her through. I don't say this to many people- but Sherry
also will attest to the cat's indomitable spirit!

I can't bear to see her suffer, though, and that may be her downfall.

Candace

"Candace" wrote in message
oups.com...
.... Fortunately, she has been eating her food today with the ground up
lasix and rutin in it.
Candace

I hope she continues to take her medicine that way. You just never know
with cats.
Annie