Update: Gabby and whether or not we have killed him yet. Warning: LONG.

Response to "CatNipped" :

I thin that some people underestimate of don't understand just
how dangerous a cat's bite can be (and, of course, we would all
do any and everything to fix a problem rather than harm a cat in
any way).

ACK! I'm way too groggy with cold medicine and the pain from
getting not one, but TWO teeth drilled down to the bone in
preparation for crowns this morning! That should have read, "I
think that some people underestimate or don't understand just how
dangerous a cat's bite can be."

I understood. I speak fluent gibberish. Haha! : )

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response to "CatNipped" :

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Nope, he's still kicking... or should I say scratching and biting
and going ape bouncing off of walls? *shrugs*

Just wondering, have you tried hissing loudly at Gabby when he
gets too rough? It doesn't do any good to yell and say "NO"
because cats don't know our language, so we have to learn theirs.
I've been around cats all my life, so I've learned to imitate all
the sounds they make and I've learned when to make them in order
to communicate what I want the cat to do (or *not* do).

I have often wondered about that. How come dogs can come to
understand verbal commands but cats supposedly cannot?

I say supposedly only because Gabby comes when I call him. And if I
say, "gabby-gabby-gabby" really fast and in a high-pitched voice he
will bolt right past me and head for the food dish -- doesn't matter
where I am, he knows that means food.

However, I have tried hissing and it was because of what you taught
me about crying "Uncle" in kittenese. I don't think I can make it
loud enough without causing myself to choke. HAHAHA!

One thing that I know I have forgot to mention is that Gabby listens
to and responds to ME the most. So if I cry uncle right in his face,
by the second or third time he is done. Thing is he goes on to
easier prey -- the spouse, the puppies, the children.

Regarding another suggestion to give Gabby to someone else before
sending him to the pound... unless it's to someone who really
knows how to train cats and understands what he/she is taking on
with Gabby (and someone who doesn't have children), I wouldn't
pass on a potential danger that I am not willing to face for
myself or my family. Only you are there to gauge how bad the
behavior is and how dangerous it makes Gabby, so all I can say is
use your best judgment. I know you're doing the best you can in
trying to socialize Gabby and give him a good, loving home.

Exactly. I have not been able to locate (nor have I looked in a week
or more) a suitable environment to put him into.

Like I explained to PawsForThought, I am so immersed in that cat's
life it's no wonder he likes me best and responds to me well.
Everyone else is too scared to stick with it long enough.

Remember you and Sheelagh actually had to tell me to STOP the rough
play with him initially. I couldn't get enough of it -- either could
he.

I thin that some people underestimate of don't understand just how
dangerous a cat's bite can be (and, of course, we would all do any
and everything to fix a problem rather than harm a cat in any
way).

Exactly. I am no cat worshiper, but I definitely think I could be
called a cat slave. Granted, I may lead a revolution one day but
master treats me well enough for now.

Just to illustrate the danger (and hopefully I'm not scaring you
with this): There was a story on Animal Planet about a woman, a
pianist, whose cat fell from a second story balcony and impaled
himself on a wrought iron fence.

snip

Nope, didn't scare me a bit. And although I don't totally agree, I
would have stood there holding the poor kitty too.

And I kind of knew that about the teeth when I actually thought about
it, so thanks for bringing it up! I really don't want a horrific cat
bite... just for the record.

Anyway, that is why I take cats' biting very seriously (and
because I had a cat who was a biter and had to spend considerable
amounts for my own medical treatments for cat bites).

It's bad enough when an adult gets bitten, but their larger size
and better immune system makes it harder for an infection to
become systemic. A child who is bitten, however, can succumb
easily to a rampant infection. Again, this is why I always
strongly suggest that people *do not ever* play with kittens with
their hands - *always* use a toy and divert your cat away from
your hands, because once learned, this is a very hard habit to
break (as you're finding out the hard way). As much as I love
cats (and I am a complete ailurophile), I would still have to
place a child's welfare over a pets'.

Oh jeez, I know. Crazy thing is, I still believe this "violence" is
mostly my fault. But jeez, I only roughhoused with him for maybe a
week. He sure knows how to fight though.

And agreed. I think I could be called an ailurophile as well. I
adore Gabby. But like the "angel with a demon's soul" post I made, I
have to think about everyone, definitely my kiddies. My beautiful,
beautiful girls already have so many scars from this little bundle of
sinewy terror.

I really hope you can find a way to get Gabby to quit his biting,
I would be heart-broken to read that he had to be put down because
of this.

I am really excitable and emotional at times, so just you mentioning
that sent me down imagination lane and currently has me stifling
watery eyes.

To be honest, it may be a cop out, but that is why I would take him
to the pound. I could not bear to take him to a vet and sit there
while it happened or to know it was happening while I waited or even
as I left.

OK, now I am crying a bit.

Anyway I'll keep thinking about this (so far all that I've read
about curing cats from biting just lists all the things we've
already suggested you do).

Thank you, CatNipped. As always, I appreciate your help. And I know
Gabby does too.

Gabby as of yesterday:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Lost.Gab...?authkey=3fwq-
CIu_pQ

He's *gorgeous*!

Hugs,

CatNipped


--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response to "CatNipped" :

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Nope, he's still kicking... or should I say scratching and biting
and going ape bouncing off of walls? *shrugs*

SNIP Gabby's adventures

Hmmmm. I'm still worried about that biting - that's *not* good.

Believe me, I know! Gabby's last two attacks have been VERY serious.
He gets himself worked into such a frenzy that he refuses to let go.

This last episode he actually shook his head back and forth on one of
my daughter's shoulders ripping several tooth holes in her shirt and
of course her skin.

A cat bite is very nasty and can cause some severe medical
problems (the only worse bite is a human's). Aside from the
kitten cry of "uncle", a high-pitched *MEW*, I don't know what
else to tell you - that always worked for me with no further
training needed. Would you be open to talking to an animal
behavorist? Your vet probably knows one in your area. As much as
I hate the idea of euthanasia, you really do have to think of your
children first. As a precaution, you might want to make sure
everyone in your household is up to date on their tetanus shots.
In the meantime, I'll do a little more research on bite prevention
and see what I can come up with.

Well, I have actually contacted all the vets in this area and none
have any idea about anything like that. I also asked about a "cat
trainer," "cat whisperer," "cat anything," and the best they came up
with was the free awareness classes the refuge holds. The refuge
said that I was already up to speed on everything they teach.

...and again, she (the refuge owner) strongly urged that I get Gabby
declawed for safety reasons since it is evident he gets a mean streak
once in a while. ANYWAY.

I even contacted my friend's dad who runs the top notch dog training
school around here and he had no clue what to do with a cat aside
from training dogs with one. He meant to teach them how to behave,
not how to eat the cat!

And please do (more research), because so far you are the only one
(that I remember) who has offered any real help in regards to his
"violence."

I have to note for the record though, that he is STILL being good.
For I think almost a week or a little over a week he has been
outstanding. Hyper as hell and doing some of the craziest oddball
stuff I have ever seen, but its not US he's doing it to so it's fine
by me AND the other occupants of this house -- furry or not.

If he's still doing it in play (mock hunting/killing), and not out of anger
or fear, the problem will take care of itself with time. But it will be
quite a while before his playing tapers off - and the larger he is the more
damage he can cause.

Can you teach the girls and your spouse the kitty "uncle" cry? I don't
think he's taking his agression out on them because you won't let him with
you, I think he probably thinks you're a big wuss and has found others to
play with who aren't (again, kittens playing together use that as a signal
that one is getting too rough and is hurting - if he's not getting that
response he may think he's not hurting the girls... I don't know this for
sure since I'm not there to witness his attacks, but it is a possibility).

Hugs,

CatNipped


--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response to "CatNipped" :

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Nope, he's still kicking... or should I say scratching and biting
and going ape bouncing off of walls? *shrugs*

Just wondering, have you tried hissing loudly at Gabby when he
gets too rough? It doesn't do any good to yell and say "NO"
because cats don't know our language, so we have to learn theirs.
I've been around cats all my life, so I've learned to imitate all
the sounds they make and I've learned when to make them in order
to communicate what I want the cat to do (or *not* do).

I have often wondered about that. How come dogs can come to
understand verbal commands but cats supposedly cannot?

I say supposedly only because Gabby comes when I call him. And if I
say, "gabby-gabby-gabby" really fast and in a high-pitched voice he
will bolt right past me and head for the food dish -- doesn't matter
where I am, he knows that means food.

I think it's because of dogs' attitudes. A dog *lives* to please his
owner - he constantly watches and listens so he can modify his behavior and
gain acceptance (he is more literally at the mercy of his owners for his
food/existence).. A cat, however, will only associate certain sounds with
certain rewards (food of petting). They are much more independent and don't
focus their entire attention on their owners 100% of the time. This is
illustrated by how each will react when you walk into a room - the dog will
immediately jump up and run over to you, the cat *might* deign to glance
your way.


However, I have tried hissing and it was because of what you taught
me about crying "Uncle" in kittenese. I don't think I can make it
loud enough without causing myself to choke. HAHAHA!

Ah, should have known, I knew you were a smart cookie! ;


One thing that I know I have forgot to mention is that Gabby listens
to and responds to ME the most. So if I cry uncle right in his face,
by the second or third time he is done. Thing is he goes on to
easier prey -- the spouse, the puppies, the children.

I wrote this in another response to you, but it's worth repeating...

Can you teach the girls and your spouse the kitty "uncle" cry? I don't
think he's taking his agression out on them because you won't let him with
you, I think he probably thinks you're a big wuss and he thinks he has found
others to play with who aren't (again, kittens playing together use that as
a signal that one is getting too rough and is hurting - if he's not getting
that response he may think he's not hurting the girls... I don't know this
for sure since I'm not there to witness his attacks, but it is a
possibility).


Regarding another suggestion to give Gabby to someone else before
sending him to the pound... unless it's to someone who really
knows how to train cats and understands what he/she is taking on
with Gabby (and someone who doesn't have children), I wouldn't
pass on a potential danger that I am not willing to face for
myself or my family. Only you are there to gauge how bad the
behavior is and how dangerous it makes Gabby, so all I can say is
use your best judgment. I know you're doing the best you can in
trying to socialize Gabby and give him a good, loving home.

Exactly. I have not been able to locate (nor have I looked in a week
or more) a suitable environment to put him into.

Like I explained to PawsForThought, I am so immersed in that cat's
life it's no wonder he likes me best and responds to me well.
Everyone else is too scared to stick with it long enough.

And that really is a shame, because he could turn out to be a wonderful
companion to them if he could stop the biting. Like children, kittens who
are very bright tend to get into *lots* more trouble than their slower
peers. Going by some of the things you wrote to PawsForThought, Gabby
sounds like a feline genius!! ; Your post sounds like some of the things
Sammy used to do when she was a kitten - her exploits are infamous! She's
over 3 years old now and she has definitely slowed down from kittenhood,
but she still likes to play chase and stalk me from under furniture (at
least the furniture high enough to fit her 18 pound hinney). What's funny,
though, is that, because of my crying "uncle" so much when she was a kitten,
she'll pounce on me with claws withdrawn and sort of just "place" her mouth
on my ankle - then she'll jump back with concern in her eyes to make sure
she didn't hurt her wussy mommy! ;


Remember you and Sheelagh actually had to tell me to STOP the rough
play with him initially. I couldn't get enough of it -- either could
he.

I thin that some people underestimate of don't understand just how
dangerous a cat's bite can be (and, of course, we would all do any
and everything to fix a problem rather than harm a cat in any
way).

Exactly. I am no cat worshiper, but I definitely think I could be
called a cat slave. Granted, I may lead a revolution one day but
master treats me well enough for now.

Just to illustrate the danger (and hopefully I'm not scaring you
with this): There was a story on Animal Planet about a woman, a
pianist, whose cat fell from a second story balcony and impaled
himself on a wrought iron fence.

snip

Nope, didn't scare me a bit. And although I don't totally agree, I
would have stood there holding the poor kitty too.

And I kind of knew that about the teeth when I actually thought about
it, so thanks for bringing it up! I really don't want a horrific cat
bite... just for the record.

The girls are probably still up on their tetanus vaccinations, but you might
want to get one (especially if he ever bites you hard). I get one every 7
years just to be on the safe side, even now that my Bandit is gone, because
I still deal with the strays outside (I feed every living creature within a
3 mile radius of my house - when we put the food out in the evening and
whistle, you can see squirrels jumping out of trees and running the fence
line from several blocks away!! ;). Whenever I get a cat bite I
immediately call my doctor and have him prescribe me a round of Clavamox.
When giving first aid for a cat bite, the important thing is to "bleed" it
as much as possible - *don't* try to stop the bleeding right away, keep
squeezing and "massaging" the bite for as long as you can get it to bleed.
Rinse it out over and over with peroxide, squeezing the wound while you do
so. Only use the peroxide for the initial treatment, after that use
Neosporin 4 times a day making sure to "massage" it into and around the
wound. If you see even a tiny amoung of redness after the first day
HIGHTAIL it to your doctor.


Anyway, that is why I take cats' biting very seriously (and
because I had a cat who was a biter and had to spend considerable
amounts for my own medical treatments for cat bites).

It's bad enough when an adult gets bitten, but their larger size
and better immune system makes it harder for an infection to
become systemic. A child who is bitten, however, can succumb
easily to a rampant infection. Again, this is why I always
strongly suggest that people *do not ever* play with kittens with
their hands - *always* use a toy and divert your cat away from
your hands, because once learned, this is a very hard habit to
break (as you're finding out the hard way). As much as I love
cats (and I am a complete ailurophile), I would still have to
place a child's welfare over a pets'.

Oh jeez, I know. Crazy thing is, I still believe this "violence" is
mostly my fault. But jeez, I only roughhoused with him for maybe a
week. He sure knows how to fight though.

No, don't beat yourself up about that - it sounds to me like he's just a
hooli-kitten and would be doing that even if you hadn't played rough with
him. Some kittens are just that crazy. And didn't you say you rescued him
from outside? He may have never been around any humans before you, and with
cats, it's essential to get them used to being handled in the first few
weeks of life or they will have socialization problems that are hard to
overcome.


And agreed. I think I could be called an ailurophile as well. I
adore Gabby. But like the "angel with a demon's soul" post I made, I
have to think about everyone, definitely my kiddies. My beautiful,
beautiful girls already have so many scars from this little bundle of
sinewy terror.

I know, as much as I love my clowder, and *all* cats, I just couldn't put
their welfare ahead of a child. Don't get me wrong, like you, I'd do
everything in my power to keep from having to make that choice, but once you
have to, you must put your child's welfare first.


I really hope you can find a way to get Gabby to quit his biting,
I would be heart-broken to read that he had to be put down because
of this.

I am really excitable and emotional at times, so just you mentioning
that sent me down imagination lane and currently has me stifling
watery eyes.

To be honest, it may be a cop out, but that is why I would take him
to the pound. I could not bear to take him to a vet and sit there
while it happened or to know it was happening while I waited or even
as I left.

OK, now I am crying a bit.

Yeah, me too. Every time I have even a passing thought about my Bandit I'll
burst into tears. Those little paws can leave prints all *over* your heart!


Anyway I'll keep thinking about this (so far all that I've read
about curing cats from biting just lists all the things we've
already suggested you do).

Thank you, CatNipped. As always, I appreciate your help. And I know
Gabby does too.

Gabby as of yesterday:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Lost.Gab...?authkey=3fwq-
CIu_pQ

Again because it's worth repeating, he's *GORGEOUS*! ;

Hugs,

CatNipped


--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

-Lost wrote:
Nope, he's still kicking... or should I say scratching and biting and
going ape bouncing off of walls? *shrugs*

Anyway, he is now almost TWICE his original size. His frame appears
HUGE to me now for some reason and he is weighs obviously more. You
can tell when he lands on you that his landings are thuds rather than
soft kitty landings.

He is still beautiful, still looks like 90% of him is one cat, while
10% of him is ring-tailed lemur or raccoon.

He comes when called, knows several words and phrases and listens all
the time when it involves food and at least half of the time when it
involves stopping what he's doing.

He is still ferocious and attacks at will, but we can keep him calm
enough. Now when I pet him, he nuzzles me keeping his mouth closed
but rubs his teeth on me. Or sometimes he opens his mouth and bites
with no pressure -- kind of like he took his teeth out of his mouth
and just rested them on me. See #3 for more information on this
note.

**
See my next installment in a few days entitled: "Gabby did something
crazy again. We thought about killing him. Then he softened me up.
Then he did something crazy again so I almost killed him. Then he
did something nice and sweet. Then topic cut off due to length..."

** ; )

See ya'!

I've been following your stories about Gabby & it's been awhile since I've
posted here. I've also had experience with 2 very aggressive young cats &
this is how I handled & re-trained them. This is almost as long a post as
yours! As a warning - there will be those who will disagree & flame me - but
if you've not had a biting cat (& been bitten!), then restrain your comments.
My very first cat was rescued by a friend in 1970 from boys trying to drown
her in a swimming pool by holding her underwater with the rescue poles. She
was young, small, ? 6-8 months, wild, mean & vicious. I got bites & scratches
on both arms & legs every day. I was single & didn't have kids to worry
about. I worked fulltime but talked to her quietly all the time before &
after work. I used to lightly & quickly tap her with my hand on her nose &
mouth saying "no" each time she used her teeth on me. I have a high-pitched
voice so the "no" was distinctive. It took awhile but the biting stopped.
Later after I married & gained an instant family with 2 teens, we had to
briefly go through this once more. By the time my own kids arrived 4 years
later, she was settled & well-behaved. BTW, she guarded us all throughout her
16-1/2 years although anyone outside the family was scared of her because she
never stopped hissing at strangers - I never tried to stop that. This was my
beautiful tortoiseshell girl Whiskey & there's a few pictures of her on
webshots at http://pets.webshots.com/photo/26254...50028271pvSgGN

3 years ago I brought home an adorable tiny black & white kitten that had
been abandoned over the weekend in a box in the rain at my vet's parking lot.
I liked his looks & personality & thought he'd be a good companion for my
other cats - high energy, slightly crazy & affectionate. I didn't realize he
was also a biter & snapper until I had him home downstairs in a large area by
himself so that the other 2 cats could get used to him. No warning, I'd be
sitting downstairs talking to him, he'd be dancing around & then without
warning he'd pounce & bite. I used the same quick tap on her nose & mouth
with a loud "no" & stopped his biting & snapping as I'd done with Whiskey
years before & it only took a couple weeks. And by then one of my other cats
Coco was continually at the door to his room so we let him loose - havoc for
the house, but the cats were fine together. He's so affectionate & still
"play bites" with my husband & self - but he's only mouthing us - never a
mark. This is my Little Devil - no longer so little but he's *always* a devil.
Now, when my grandchildren are here, we keep a very close eye but he's good
with the kids & follows them everywhere while Coco hides. Here's a link to
some of his pictures
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/20188...50028271LhghAY

Good luck with Gabby, but if he continues to attack & bite your kids, you
really won't have too much choice - and choices are difficult but you will
have to act.
M.

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...ealth/200711/1

On Nov 11, 6:50 am, "-Lost" wrote:
Response to PawsForThought :

Gah! Sounds like your cat is acting like a playful teenager who
perhaps hasn't been properly socialized, and who sounds like he
would definitely benefit from another young cat playmate.

Not going to happen.

May I ask why not? I've found that a very active, playful and
sometimes maniacal cat can really benefit with a playmate. The
playmate shares in all the energy and attacks. It really is very
beneficial.

I have busted my arse to show Gabby he is loved above and beyond what
the little fur ball deserves sometimes.

I am the one who used their insomnia to good advantage and stayed up
with him the entire first week or so he was here so he didn't have to
be kenneled all night long only to be let out during the day when 5
other people and 6 or more animals would be running about the house
scaring the hell out of him.

I brush him, feed him, teach him, clean up after him, removed
parasites from his nasty little hide, saved him from a thunderstorm
that lasted almost 20 hours, vaccinated him, have kept him safe from
the other animals here that could harm him, protected him even when
HE did something to said animals to make them pounce back, I have
rescued him from his fat head being stuck under the couch, under the
bathroom door when he HAS to be nosy and see what I am doing, I am
the one who did not sleep for nigh on 36 hours because the jerk ate a
peanut M&M to watch for ill effects, and I absolutely KNOW due to my
disability that I am surely missing even more stuff that I have done
to go above and beyond the call of duty for an animal that has done
nothing but be extremely cute, amaze us, and hurt us physically.

Again, he sounds like a typical young teenage male cat. You wouldn't
believe all the trouble my Mickey got into when he was young (and
continues to do today). Yeah, it took time and a lot of patience
(which sometimes was hard to draw upon), but I think he's pretty well
socialized now. My cats were young rescue kittens when I adopted them
and thus they didn't have much socializing. Mickey in particular had
a biting problem. I trained him out of it. No, it wasn't easy but I
think with most cats it can be done. Having a playmate (his sister
Meesha) really, really helped. Of course Meesha was not without her
issues (had a bad problem with biting cords).


Now, believe me, I know EXACTLY where you are coming from and I know
your heart is in the right place, but this fanatical cat worship that
prompts you or anyone else to be concerned about a problematic cat
(he's not really that problematic in my opinion, it's just the
violence, more on that in a minute) and not mention a SINGLE thing
about my young children who live in fear of this little beasties'
crazy hyper-rage spells does NOTHING in the way of making me
remorseful to what MAY have to happen to Gabby one day.

Fanatical? Moi? ROFL Well you may be right about that. However, in
my experience, when young children are bitten or scratched by a cat,
usually, it is as a result of something the child has done to the
cat. I remember when I was young and our family cat scratched me
badly. My mom asked what I had done to the cat to make her attack
me. I was trying to dress her up in doll clothes (not an easy thing
to do with a Siamese cat). Anyway, I"m not saying in your case that
your kids were doing anything to the cat, just putting the thought out
there. Often kids don't want to admit they were antagonizing the
cat. Teach your kids what warning signs to look for, i.e. flattened
ears, dilated eyes, thrashing tail. Cats can become overstimulated
easily.

As a last thought, you might want to consult with a cat behaviorist
who may be able to help you, although it does sound like you're
getting lots of good advice from the posters here. But sometimes
working one on one with a behaviorist can work wonders.

Good luck to you and your kitty.

On Nov 11, 3:50 am, "-Lost" wrote:
Response to PawsForThought :

On Nov 9, 1:58 pm, "-Lost" wrote:

book length post snipped

Hey, I issued a warning in the title stating it was LONG.

The only thing I know for certain is that if he does this as an
adult to one of my children again (the total number of SERIOUS
attacks are not at 8) he is going to the pound where he will be
euthanized -- no questions asked. But enough of that negative
thinking -- my boy has been behaving GREAT for almost a week!

That should have been, "are noW at 8..."

Gah! Sounds like your cat is acting like a playful teenager who
perhaps hasn't been properly socialized, and who sounds like he
would definitely benefit from another young cat playmate.

Not going to happen.

I would hope before it comes to the point of you dumping him at a
shelter to be euthanized, that you would rehome him to someone who
truly wants to, and can, spend the necessary time with him. Yes,
I know you've been trying to work with him (and thanks for not
declawing, btw), but what you wrote above worries me.

I'll start by saying this reminds me of one of my spouse's friend's
wife. She is a hateful woman who always starts some trashy, idiotic
statement with, "Now, I don't mean to be rude, but..."

(And this does not mean I think this of you, merely that it reminded
me of that. You said something that could be taken hard, but try to
ease out of it near the end.)

So, "someone WHO TRULY WANTS TO, and CAN, spend the NECESSARY TIME
with him" actually bothered me quite a bit.

I have busted my arse to show Gabby he is loved above and beyond what
the little fur ball deserves sometimes.

I am the one who used their insomnia to good advantage and stayed up
with him the entire first week or so he was here so he didn't have to
be kenneled all night long only to be let out during the day when 5
other people and 6 or more animals would be running about the house
scaring the hell out of him.

I brush him, feed him, teach him, clean up after him, removed
parasites from his nasty little hide, saved him from a thunderstorm
that lasted almost 20 hours, vaccinated him, have kept him safe from
the other animals here that could harm him, protected him even when
HE did something to said animals to make them pounce back, I have
rescued him from his fat head being stuck under the couch, under the
bathroom door when he HAS to be nosy and see what I am doing, I am
the one who did not sleep for nigh on 36 hours because the jerk ate a
peanut M&M to watch for ill effects, and I absolutely KNOW due to my
disability that I am surely missing even more stuff that I have done
to go above and beyond the call of duty for an animal that has done
nothing but be extremely cute, amaze us, and hurt us physically.

Now, believe me, I know EXACTLY where you are coming from and I know
your heart is in the right place, but this fanatical cat worship that
prompts you or anyone else to be concerned about a problematic cat
(he's not really that problematic in my opinion, it's just the
violence, more on that in a minute) and not mention a SINGLE thing
about my young children who live in fear of this little beasties'
crazy hyper-rage spells does NOTHING in the way of making me
remorseful to what MAY have to happen to Gabby one day.

The problematic cat topic. I view Gabby as non-problematic but with
one SERIOUS flaw. It is kind of like, what if the love of your life
was the greatest person on Earth and you would literally die for them
because they are so perfect in every way... the only problem was that
one to three times a week he attacks one of your children beating,
biting, or scratching them to the point that their skin is ripped,
torn, bleeding, whatever. Like an angel with the soul of a demon. I
am not sure if I am explaining that right. Anyway, point is beyond
all the good we cannot handle nor correct (so far) the one serious
flaw and that leaves but one other solution.

I have actually mentioned in other posts several key things that you
may have missed.

1. I tried finding him a home around 2 weeks ago before his recent
good behavior spell. NO ONE wants cats.

2. The refuge is full.

3. The pet store does not take strays, or cats under normal
circumstances during the holiday months October through December, and
being that the owner is a friend of mine I had to tell her the reason
we thought about relocating him. Which made the answer a definitive,
"no." Surely you wouldn't want me to give him to a place that would
euthanize him in a non-humane way once they found out he is mildly
psychotic would you?

4. That ONLY leaves the pound which euthanizes after 5 days.

So I didn't mean to sound as if he had only done one thing and
immediately I opted to extinguish his life. I meant exactly what I
said. We are dealing with the madness now, but if he latches onto
one of my children as a much larger, late adolescent or adult cat and
does what he does now, he is going to hurt one of my children
severely. At that point waiting several days, to weeks, maybe longer
for a home to open up will NOT be an option -- I will remove him from
the home to protect my children effective immediately. They've
already been through enough.

5. He has attacked a total of 8 times now. The last were REALLY
serious. He tore a PLUG out of one of my daughter's hands AND her
wrist and that was compounded by the 20+ deep grooves cut into her
arm as he jockeyed for a better position.

Maybe you should put him to sleep if he is visious. Your children are
most important after all.

wrote:
Maybe you should put him to sleep if he is visious. Your children are
most important after all.

You are a loon. And learn to snip.

-Lost wrote:
[trim]
5. Cans of pressurized air - Thanks goes to ALL who mentioned things
like shaking cans of marbles, pill bottles (that was mine), coins, et
cetera to calm a kitty down. However, it didn't work. Nor did
yelling. Nor did whistles. Nor did popping balloons. Nor did
insert about ten other methods. Finally I got the bright idea to
spray at him with canned air (NEVER at his face). One quick
"SSSSSHHHHTT!!" at his bottom or his feet and he IMMEDIATELY stops
the craziness. I refused to subscribe to the "he will become afraid
of it" mentality simply because it was not hurting him. And luckily
it worked. Considering this was a necessity to determine Gabby's
fate, to us it was a gamble that was well worth the risk.

delurk

First, your Gabby sounds a lot like my Mischief - not socialized early
enough to know how fragile and wussy humans really are. On the up side,
the hoolikitten streak *does* fade with time, especially as you continue
your efforts. I had the help of preexisting adult cats to help socialize
Mischief, but I think that your 'speaking his language' may be just as
effective with Gabby.

If the can of air works, I wonder if you could teach your children to
hiss at Gabby through their teeth (more noise with less air, IME) when
he gets out of control, or starts showing the warning signs of getting
out of control. If that doesn't work, I would recommend teaching them to
use the pressurized air themselves as well - the more they can do
themselves to help keep Gabby under control, the less afraid they're
likely to be, *plus* Gabby would be likely to behave better with them,
which is what really needs to happen for the safety of your children.
This goes for all the things you've learned that work with Gabby. Also,
it's a last resort thing for serious attacks only, but I haven't known a
cat that didn't let go when flicked on the nose - it's a sensitive area,
and seems to replicate the thumping that a kitten would get from its
mother when it goes too far.

relurk

Maeve ^..^
--
http://volatiledreams.deep-ice.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/

Response to "CatNipped" :

If he's still doing it in play (mock hunting/killing), and not out
of anger or fear, the problem will take care of itself with time.
But it will be quite a while before his playing tapers off - and
the larger he is the more damage he can cause.

Can you teach the girls and your spouse the kitty "uncle" cry? I
don't think he's taking his agression out on them because you
won't let him with you, I think he probably thinks you're a big
wuss and has found others to play with who aren't (again, kittens
playing together use that as a signal that one is getting too
rough and is hurting - if he's not getting that response he may
think he's not hurting the girls... I don't know this for sure
since I'm not there to witness his attacks, but it is a
possibility).

Yep, taught everyone in the house and showed them your lovely video.
Gabby just shrugs it off -- then again I can do it louder than anyone
here.

I wondered about that too after thinking about the fact that I was
crying uncle in kittenese. Heh. I'm the tough one in the home and
he thinks I'm the wuss -- it figures.

Ah well, still plugging along with all the suggestions and trying new
ones. Today to get him to stop knocking over a pencil holder I used
a training clicker, but one that was extremely loud. It reminds me
of smacking a hard plastic fly swatter on linoleum. He doesn't stop
what he's doing, but it makes him pause for a second or so -- do that
a few times and he goes on to something else.

Thanks again, CatNipped.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.