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  #31  
Old November 3rd 07, 03:15 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.community
Granby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,742
Default Questionz

Boy, who would have thought just skeing a question could start all this
discussion. Discussion in always good and I agree that things change as
people change. This IS still a warm welcoming place and there is a lot of
fun on the 'ventures. There is friendship in the comforting of those who
have loss.

There are a lot of good memories from the past and we are making new ones
all the time.
"Cory" wrote in message
g...
In article ,
says...
I have been so impressed by the quality of writing that happens in our
events, especially the Jellical Ball and wedwinks...the narratives have
been
so meaningful, and I have been remiss in not saying so quite often. At
this
Jellical Ball, I even cut-and-pasted much of it, to read from time to
time.

I would be very happy and contented to see the traditions of rpcc
continue
without any change at all,


This is NOT meant to come across as a flame or a criticism, so if it
does, I truly, truly apologize.

There isn't any way possible for RPCC to continue its traditions without
any change at all. Kitties come and go now, for whatever reason, on an
almost routine basis. There are many, many, many reasons for that.

Back when RPC was the only cat group, there were a LOT of meowchatters
who were VERY, VERY close with one another. A LOT of activities that
went on in RPC actually no longer happen in RPCC today (Major and
Mahler's plane activities being one such thing that I can actively
recall off the top of my head).

The split of RPC into its subgroups indelibly changed a lot of things...
many, many more things than I think the newer kitties and their hoomans
can understand, simply because they're newer and they weren't here
before the split. As I recall, there were MASSIVE flame wars around the
time of the discussion of the split, and feelings were hurt in the
process. There are meowchatters who were quite active in the original
RPC whom I've NEVER, EVER seen again since the split, and the reasons
for that may have a lot to do with how the split happened and the flame
wars that surrounded it.

RPCC is NOT the same group that it was back in the day when it was RPC,
and we had to preface our headers with "MEOW", so that those that wanted
to filter out our meowchat could do so. Some people will say that in
some ways, RPCC is a better group. Some will say that, in some ways,
it's not as fun for some people (having said this, there ARE valid
reasons that some RPC folks stopped posting, other than it just wasn't
fun anymore [lost internet access at work... don't have the time
anymore... there are even some people who still cannot access RPCC
through their ISP or newsgroup provider, even though it's been around
for a long time now. Some news feeds just don't carry it.]). I
personally prefer to just think that RPCC is different these days... not
in terms of "better" or "worse".

You also have to remember, too, that people change as they grow older.
What was once upon a time fun just isn't anymore... not because it's
turned "bad", so to speak, but because the people have simply outgrown
that kind of fun (which is what I think has happened to me, to some
degree, as I've gotten older). Another reason things have changed is
because kitties' likes and dislikes change over time, as well, not to
mention that there ARE a LOT of newer kitties in the newsgroup. That,
right there, will "shift" the interests of the group, and that's not a
bad thing at all, I feel. Every kitty and hooman that *posts* here
should feel welcome and have fun being here, and if that isn't the case
for you anymore, then it's time to bow out gracefully, rather than
ruining a fun time for everyone else.

I don't mean or want to speak for anykitty or hooman, but the new
kitties who've joined RPCC in recent years since the split ARE welcome
here, IMNSHO. We ARE glad to have you here, and we DO want the new
kitties to feel welcome and join in or start activities that are fun,
not only for the rest of the group, but for the individual kitties, I
believe.

though I recognize that the job is difficult, it
is extremely worthwhile, both in times of grief and times of joy.

A huge Bravo and Thank You to those who work especially hard to make the
above possible.

Sylvia, Meowmee and sekkiterry tu Pitô.ônya.


--- Unca Cory



  #32  
Old November 3rd 07, 03:22 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.community
Granby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,742
Default Questionz

Now that I am totally lost, glad this was all settled before I got here. I
like the meowchat because it gives my cats a life of their own. They each
have a personality and this is a way to get it out. When I came, I was
sufficating from things going on around me and this gave me an outlet I
never knew was out thee. I have met some nice people here, and their cats.
As I grow older, I understand how it is not to like change. Seems to me
there are more things to be brought back from the past and and thus the
number of participants will increase.
"Cory" wrote in message
g...
In article ,
says...
I find that interesting and I just guess you had to be there, why were
there
flame wars? was it an issue as to splitting in the first place or was it
an
issue as to how to split? soft


I can't remember why, but I had stopped posting to the original RPC
around the time of the split, so I wasn't around when the split actually
happened. I left RPC for reasons I can't recall (I may have had an
illness, actually, due to the nature of my disability. I was posting to
RPC around the time I was in school, too, so school may have had
something to do with why I wasn't posting at around the time the split
happened. I KNOW for a fact that my leaving didn't have ANYTHING to do
with being angry or hurt about how the group was treating Onyx or I or
how the group was functioning before the split), and when I came back to
post again, RPC had split into the groups that are here today. In fact,
I remember at the time thinking to myself, "why didn't they just call
'our' newsgroup 'rec.pets.cats.meowchat' (RPCM). It's simple enough,
and it's accurate."

I'm SO glad that they didn't call this newsgroup that, in retrospect.
The meowchatters back in the day got a LOT of crap. They got a lot of
crap from regular RPC'ers not wild about meowchat (who actively dissed
us and called meowchat baby talk), but also from trolls, as well. If
the group HAD been named RPCM, we'd be an easier mark, I believe, for
trolls to seek us out and plague us left and right.

What I recall (and what I recall may not be 100% accurate or complete)
is that a big reason why people who wanted the split was because they
were tired/sick of the meowchat. They wanted it gone from their
newsgroup. The meowchatters wanted to continue to let their kitties
have their own voices. AIUI, the arguing and the flamewars all
escalated from there, and the split became an issue that was about more
than just meowchat, for reasons I can't recall. I think some of it was
a combination of both splitting the groups in the first place, and also
how to split the groups. If you'll notice, there's a group in the RPC
hierarchy called rec.pets.cats.health+behav. Like I said earlier, I
wasn't around when the split actually happened, but I wouldn't be
surprised at all to learn that there were people who wanted there to be
two separate groups: rec.pets.cats.health, and rec.pets.cats.behavior...
so yeah, I would imagine that there was a fair amount of talk about how
to split the groups. Since this is Usenet, there had to be a consensus.

Usenet's funny... there are these things called RFDs, or request for
discussion. I see now that they happen in the news.* hierarchy. I
think they used to take place in the alt.config newsgroup many years
ago. There are also, IIRC, RFVs, or request for votes. RFDs and RFVs
both center entirely around creating new newsgroups. I can't remember
if RFDs just happen and people discuss creating a new newsgroup simply
because there was a call for an RFD, or if an RFD has to be voted upon
in order for there to actually even BE a discussion about creating a new
newsgroup. Anyway, when an RFD happens, people discuss creating the new
newsgroup, whatever its name may be (e.g. alt.fan.billy-bob).

If there seems to be a consensus that the new newsgroup should be
created, then I *believe* an RFV is called for. There's a magic number
of votes or a percentage that has to approve the creation of a new
newsgroup in order for it to even be created. I believe the rationale
for that is so that Usenet is not just flooded with newsgroups. Having
said that, yes, if you look at your list of newsgroups, there ARE
newsgroups that exist that are pretty stupid and never, ever seem to get
traffic. However, that is actually one of the reasons that there are
RFDs and RFVs and that the rules for creating a new newsgroup are as
stringent as they are. You just have to trust me when I say that the
glut of newsgroups that don't get any traffic would be about 20 times
higher than it is today if the process that IS in place today didn't
exist at all.

OK... I think that that just about covers it. I hope I've answered all
of your questions this time around. If not, just post other questions
you may have, and I or someone here who's been here long enough to know
will answer them as soon as I/we can. :-)

--- Unca Cory ;-)



  #33  
Old November 3rd 07, 03:51 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.community
Stormmee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,281
Default Questionz

thanks very helpful, soft
Cory wrote in message
g...
In article ,
says...
I find that interesting and I just guess you had to be there, why were

there
flame wars? was it an issue as to splitting in the first place or was it

an
issue as to how to split? soft


I can't remember why, but I had stopped posting to the original RPC
around the time of the split, so I wasn't around when the split actually
happened. I left RPC for reasons I can't recall (I may have had an
illness, actually, due to the nature of my disability. I was posting to
RPC around the time I was in school, too, so school may have had
something to do with why I wasn't posting at around the time the split
happened. I KNOW for a fact that my leaving didn't have ANYTHING to do
with being angry or hurt about how the group was treating Onyx or I or
how the group was functioning before the split), and when I came back to
post again, RPC had split into the groups that are here today. In fact,
I remember at the time thinking to myself, "why didn't they just call
'our' newsgroup 'rec.pets.cats.meowchat' (RPCM). It's simple enough,
and it's accurate."

I'm SO glad that they didn't call this newsgroup that, in retrospect.
The meowchatters back in the day got a LOT of crap. They got a lot of
crap from regular RPC'ers not wild about meowchat (who actively dissed
us and called meowchat baby talk), but also from trolls, as well. If
the group HAD been named RPCM, we'd be an easier mark, I believe, for
trolls to seek us out and plague us left and right.

What I recall (and what I recall may not be 100% accurate or complete)
is that a big reason why people who wanted the split was because they
were tired/sick of the meowchat. They wanted it gone from their
newsgroup. The meowchatters wanted to continue to let their kitties
have their own voices. AIUI, the arguing and the flamewars all
escalated from there, and the split became an issue that was about more
than just meowchat, for reasons I can't recall. I think some of it was
a combination of both splitting the groups in the first place, and also
how to split the groups. If you'll notice, there's a group in the RPC
hierarchy called rec.pets.cats.health+behav. Like I said earlier, I
wasn't around when the split actually happened, but I wouldn't be
surprised at all to learn that there were people who wanted there to be
two separate groups: rec.pets.cats.health, and rec.pets.cats.behavior...
so yeah, I would imagine that there was a fair amount of talk about how
to split the groups. Since this is Usenet, there had to be a consensus.

Usenet's funny... there are these things called RFDs, or request for
discussion. I see now that they happen in the news.* hierarchy. I
think they used to take place in the alt.config newsgroup many years
ago. There are also, IIRC, RFVs, or request for votes. RFDs and RFVs
both center entirely around creating new newsgroups. I can't remember
if RFDs just happen and people discuss creating a new newsgroup simply
because there was a call for an RFD, or if an RFD has to be voted upon
in order for there to actually even BE a discussion about creating a new
newsgroup. Anyway, when an RFD happens, people discuss creating the new
newsgroup, whatever its name may be (e.g. alt.fan.billy-bob).

If there seems to be a consensus that the new newsgroup should be
created, then I *believe* an RFV is called for. There's a magic number
of votes or a percentage that has to approve the creation of a new
newsgroup in order for it to even be created. I believe the rationale
for that is so that Usenet is not just flooded with newsgroups. Having
said that, yes, if you look at your list of newsgroups, there ARE
newsgroups that exist that are pretty stupid and never, ever seem to get
traffic. However, that is actually one of the reasons that there are
RFDs and RFVs and that the rules for creating a new newsgroup are as
stringent as they are. You just have to trust me when I say that the
glut of newsgroups that don't get any traffic would be about 20 times
higher than it is today if the process that IS in place today didn't
exist at all.

OK... I think that that just about covers it. I hope I've answered all
of your questions this time around. If not, just post other questions
you may have, and I or someone here who's been here long enough to know
will answer them as soon as I/we can. :-)

--- Unca Cory ;-)



  #34  
Old November 3rd 07, 06:14 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.community
Rebecca
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 720
Default Questionz

I ageez!

Rebecca, apawding enthusiastically

"Ellie" wrote in message
...

An I fink Mietze and Auntie Melissa deserf uh big round uf fangful apaws!
Princess Pasha, standing and applauding
Phoebe & Emma also stand and applaud



  #35  
Old November 3rd 07, 06:14 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.community
Rebecca
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 720
Default Questionz

Meow, Colette. Itz a onner to meet yoo.

Rebecca

"squiffer" wrote in message
...
Ahem, I am Colette, a veddy smart kat, and my own dear sekretary started
the
glossary. It was long ago, and before this group existed. As I am of both
a
literary and scientific mind, I veddy much appreciate all the curious
minds
and their questions. Ahem. That is all fellow furrrrsons.
Colette

"Stormmee" wrote in message
...
:I don't think anyone has ever complained about the work Melissa has done,
if
: anyone needs to se her dedication they need only go and look at the
walk...
: bear in mind that honest questions and a desire to understand the
dynamics
: of a group can often be interpreted incorrectly or not as they are
: intended... it seems to me that all of the newer members are doing
something
: I did not have the courage to do when I first started reading here, I
think
: around 99 but am not sure... I always wondered how the ball started, how
the
: calling got started, Melissa is the only one I ever saw do it and I
wondered
: how that came to be, if there had been someone before, why/how did it
: change... just like I wondered when reading the glossary for the first
time
: who could be that creative and wonderful to catalog all of that... the
point
: is, I think the group is filled with love and I think that some of us
are
: sensitive to keeping traditions alive, and others of us want to
understand
: the traditions keep them and add to the life here at the community, soft
fur
: her cats
: wrote in message
: oups.com...
: Hello to all. My cats Oprah Anne and Princess Pasha played here for
: years (starting in 1996) when I was able to get rpcc through
: newsgroups via my dialup account. When that dried up, and I had to
: rely on the more difficult to follow internet groups on a dialup
: account, I had to give it up for a variety of reasons, the biggest of
: which was lack of time, although I did check in occasionally to see
: what was going on. This group was always about fun and love for me,
: and I can only hope it will remain so for all of you..
:
: I just want to take a moment to acknowledge the wonderful work that
: Mietze (by way of Melissa) has done for all of us over these last
: years. She alone has remembered the names of those cats, dogs,
: ferrets, other furs (even a snake or two), and hoomins who have passed
: to the rainbow bridge during the past years. She puts their names in
: her Walk of Remembrance and has worked tirelessly on the behalf of all
: of us to keep the names of those we've loved alive forever. This
: year, my beloved Lissa's name was called after she died shortly after
: last year's Jellicle Ball. There has been no one more dedicated to
: this task than Mietze/Melissa has been, and I wish to thank her for
: that.
:
: That said (and I wish to make clear this is not aimed at those who
: simply asked questions), I would like to add that those few of you who
: have *complained* should be ashamed. If rpcc no longer wishes to have
: a Jellicle Ball, that's fine, but it is a sad day when some in a group
: of people who have supposedly been brought together by love of their
: furs should attack someone who has done nothing but try to give some
: consolation and solace to those who have lost their loved ones. I
: have to wonder if those who have been so quick to criticize will step
: up to the plate and remember those who go to the bridge this coming
: year.
: Ellie Terrell, former rpcc-er and mom to kitties Princess Pasha,
: Phoebe & Emma
:
:
:
:




  #36  
Old November 3rd 07, 06:18 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.community
The Clowder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default Questionz

"Stormmee" wrote:

I find that interesting and I just guess you had to be there, why were there
flame wars? was it an issue as to splitting in the first place or was it an
issue as to how to split? soft


I got internet access in 93 or 94, and one of my happiest discoveries
(and first addiction) was rec.pets.cats. It was a busy group then,
and this was a couple of years before AOL offered Usenet access,
before the big ISPs like Earthlink and the rest existed. People were
online mostly through school, work, or if they were lucky enough that
a local provider existed in their area.

Round about 95 or 96, access started to be easier to obtain, more
people got online via home computers, and Usenet groups across the
board got measurably more active. *Everything* about cats was
discussed in rec.pets.cats, and in 95 some of the regulars started
amusing themselves by having the cats take over the keyboard and talk
to each other. This did *not* amuse some of the other users. As the
Mietze would say...oh no, not wun bit!. In order to circumvent some
of the complaints, the word "MEOW" was added to the each header so
that users who didn't want their serious stuff cluttered up could use
their newsreader software to killfile those posts. Forgetting to do
this resulted in predictable, usually nasty reminders.

And so to the split. "Volume" was the official reason given. Because
groups which begin with the word "rec" are one of the "big 8" groups,
there's a whole long procedure that has to be followed to create,
split or remove one. (These are groups starting with comp, talk,
news, rec, humanities, can't think of the others offhand, but not
"alt")

There were votes on r.p.c on whether to split at all, and when those
were tallied there were enough "yes" votes to start the process. Then
the whole thing had to shifted over to one of the news.* groups where
the charters for each subgroup were hashed out, with everything
(including the names) were rejected or ok'd by the high poobahs there.
For awhile, it was looking like the meowers were going to be
sanctioned only in the *anecdotes group, which would have left us in
the same position of antagonizing those who just don't get it.

"r.p.c.meowchat" was indeed a suggested name, but was tossed (by
meowers) for the very reason Cory suggested...too much of a target. I
also think a lot of us were pretty tired of that stupid "MEOW" in the
header, it made you feel like a pariah, so why would we want the whole
group marked with a scarlet A?

My personal favorite among the suggested names was "clowder", but a
high poohbah news.groupie vetoed it because he didn't know what it
meant. Since a split was inevitable by that point (many meowers
really didn't want the split at all), "community" was the best
compromise arrived at and approved.

And that's the Cliff Notes version of how we got here. :-)

Melissa

--
Remove the first m to reply
  #37  
Old November 3rd 07, 06:18 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.community
The Clowder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default Questionz

"Stormmee" wrote:

[small snip, but thank you and everyone who's said kind things.]

I always wondered how the ball started, how the
calling got started, Melissa is the only one I ever saw do it and I wondered
how that came to be, if there had been someone before, why/how did it
change... just like I wondered when reading the glossary for the first time
who could be that creative and wonderful to catalog all of that... the point
is, I think the group is filled with love and I think that some of us are
sensitive to keeping traditions alive, and others of us want to understand
the traditions keep them and add to the life here at the community, soft fur
her cats


"Add to the life"....YESSSSSSS! I would *love* to see new stuff added
to the Ball.

The important thing to remember is that this is a *creation*. People
thought about things to do and then threw it out there to see what
would work, what would stick. For the first two Balls, the Calling
was just a list. I think Gretchen Marie posted them, but GM was also
doing so much else for the Ball, (and has ever since...now *she*, and
her successor Little Kitty deserve an enormous amount of credit and
applause) and nothing was said about the Calling and who was going to
do it for the third Ball.

So, Mietze volunteered, and added a speech. The idea was to make the
Calling also a brief Tribute to all of the Honorees on the list, in
case some didn't have individual Tributes in the days that followed.

Another idea, which came along later (but not much later) was Laura
Ann's guestbook, now done by the current spokeskitty from Laura's
House. It's one of those ideas that stuck, people have fun with it,
and, after Laura died it's become a small tribute in itself to her.
As far as I'm concerned, it belongs to that House to do until they
choose to hand it off, or the Ball is discontinued, because they
created it in the first place.

I thought it was a lovely touch, having Piglet join Ralph & Kissa at
the table this year.

Melissa

--
Remove the first m to reply
  #39  
Old November 3rd 07, 06:37 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.community
Ms. Tess
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Questionz

Seconding what Kami and Ellie and many others have said.

I've been following rpc/rpcc since late 1996 though my kitties have
never posted very much. (I'm not quick-witted enough for kitty
'ventures.)

For me the Jellicle Ball seems like Homecoming - an old-fashioned
custom in Southern churches - where people who've moved-on or moved
away come back once a year. I hope we will continue the tradition.

The voices from the past are very important. It broke my heart to know
that KitTen died but I am so grateful that Sean came back to give us
the chance to say good-bye.

RPCC is and always has been a magical place.

Margaret

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:12:16 GMT, Kami
wrote:

Very well said, Ellie. Melissa and Mietze have been Godsends to many. What
Melissa has done over the years is detailed and often painful, and she's
most appreciated.
Kami, mom to Sassy and Whiskers, who used to play here

  #40  
Old November 3rd 07, 06:52 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.community
Ms. Tess
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Questionz

Thanks for the history, Cory. When I first started lurking in rpc I
never read the MEOW posts. I've never had the patience for reading
dialect and wasn't about to start. Then one day I clicked on a MEOW
post by mistake. It was "I weared a skirt!" - the adventures of the
inimitable Bobbie Rankin under the Christmas tree - and I was hooked.
For a time meowchat would make it's way into everything I wrote.

I think one reason for the split was that some very vocal folks felt
even have to see MEOW in a header was too much of an insult. Another
reason was there was an awful lot if traffic in the old rpc - it split
into three (or four?) groups.

Margaret

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 07:23:17 -0500, Cory
wrote:



What I recall (and what I recall may not be 100% accurate or complete)
is that a big reason why people who wanted the split was because they
were tired/sick of the meowchat. They wanted it gone from their
newsgroup. The meowchatters wanted to continue to let their kitties
have their own voices. AIUI, the arguing and the flamewars all
escalated from there, and the split became an issue that was about more
than just meowchat, for reasons I can't recall. I think some of it was
a combination of both splitting the groups in the first place, and also
how to split the groups. If you'll notice, there's a group in the RPC
hierarchy called rec.pets.cats.health+behav. Like I said earlier, I
wasn't around when the split actually happened, but I wouldn't be
surprised at all to learn that there were people who wanted there to be
two separate groups: rec.pets.cats.health, and rec.pets.cats.behavior...
so yeah, I would imagine that there was a fair amount of talk about how
to split the groups. Since this is Usenet, there had to be a consensus.

 




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