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Dog lover turned kitten mother, LOTS of questions..



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 7th 03, 04:15 AM
Cathy Friedmann
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"Nicole" wrote in message
thlink.net...
In response - Yes, I've looked at the alternatives. Soft Paws (they even
come in cute colors!!), training, sprays, the other procedure that starts
with a T that I can't spell (tendenoniton or something), laser surgery,

nail
clipping, living with it.....so I asked a breeder in the area, because I
didn't want to do something that would hurt her....she told me this...
"if Hailey is an inside cat, she doesn't need to protect herself (she's an
only child). If declawing was so inhumane, no vet would declaw any

animal."
It took a lot of convincing, and my vet even let me watch a procedure...so
we're going to go through with it. I realize that it's a VERY

controversial
topic, but I appreciate your advice! I'll keep ya posted!
Momma-Kittenhead


Uh-oh... though thinking yourself prepared, you have no *idea* the can of
worms you've probably opened yourself up to w/ this one, I'm afraid. The
declawing issue has got to be the biggest source of arguments & flame wars
on cat ngs, w/ the indoor-outdoor issue probably in 2nd place. I'm not
pro-declaw, but otoh I'm not vehemently against it, either. Two of my cats
have been front-declaws (one was my decision back in '86, & the other came
that way when I adopted her in '93) - w/ no resultant problems that I can
tell. Although, I assume as w/ any surgery, there must *sometimes* be
adverse after-effects.

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon



  #12  
Old July 7th 03, 04:19 AM
Purplecat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Nicole" wrote in message
thlink.net...
In response - Yes, I've looked at the alternatives. Soft Paws (they even
come in cute colors!!), training, sprays, the other procedure that starts
with a T that I can't spell (tendenoniton or something), laser surgery,

nail
clipping, living with it.....so I asked a breeder in the area, because I
didn't want to do something that would hurt her....she told me this...
"if Hailey is an inside cat, she doesn't need to protect herself (she's an
only child). If declawing was so inhumane, no vet would declaw any

animal."

Actually, in many countries no vet will...

Do look into this a *lot* before you decide to do it. It's such a
controversial procedure that many countries (incl UK, Australia and most of
Europe) in the world have declared it illegal or "extremely inhumane" and
wont perform the procedure except in extreme *medical* situations.
http://www.declawing.com/list.html

Indeed, it's taken for granted to such a degree in Aus that declawing is
inhumane (and outright illegal in a number of states) that I didn't even
realise it was still a regular procedure anywhere else in the world. There
are several million pet cats in Australia. Their owners have all coped just
fine with their kitty's claws. Give it a go.

Purplecat

PS If you're interested in getting a number of different opinions, perhaps
e-mail vets from other countries and see what they say. I know there are a
number of vets online that will happily answer questions. The impression I
get is that a lot of countries/international vet associations feel the US is
behind the times on the declawing issue...





  #13  
Old July 7th 03, 04:19 AM
Purplecat
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Nicole" wrote in message
thlink.net...
In response - Yes, I've looked at the alternatives. Soft Paws (they even
come in cute colors!!), training, sprays, the other procedure that starts
with a T that I can't spell (tendenoniton or something), laser surgery,

nail
clipping, living with it.....so I asked a breeder in the area, because I
didn't want to do something that would hurt her....she told me this...
"if Hailey is an inside cat, she doesn't need to protect herself (she's an
only child). If declawing was so inhumane, no vet would declaw any

animal."

Actually, in many countries no vet will...

Do look into this a *lot* before you decide to do it. It's such a
controversial procedure that many countries (incl UK, Australia and most of
Europe) in the world have declared it illegal or "extremely inhumane" and
wont perform the procedure except in extreme *medical* situations.
http://www.declawing.com/list.html

Indeed, it's taken for granted to such a degree in Aus that declawing is
inhumane (and outright illegal in a number of states) that I didn't even
realise it was still a regular procedure anywhere else in the world. There
are several million pet cats in Australia. Their owners have all coped just
fine with their kitty's claws. Give it a go.

Purplecat

PS If you're interested in getting a number of different opinions, perhaps
e-mail vets from other countries and see what they say. I know there are a
number of vets online that will happily answer questions. The impression I
get is that a lot of countries/international vet associations feel the US is
behind the times on the declawing issue...





  #14  
Old July 7th 03, 04:39 AM
Nicole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yes, I'm aware that it is illegal in several countries....as a matter of
fact, I bet I could name you several of the countries (such as those on
Great britian, Spain, portgual, brazil, Italy for sure, england, australia).
You know, I bet there are other people on here who aren't against declawing,
but I think I'm probably one of the only ones with the balls enough to say
"yeah, I've weighed the alternatives and have decided to declaw". When I
got Hailey I wasn't doing a jig to the thought of declawing her. I didn't
look at her and smile at the thought of taking off the nails. But I feel
confident in the trained PROFESSIONAL vets., I feel confident enough in
research and the experience of others that I'm doing the right thing.
With that said, I am basically saying, if you don't want to answer my
questions or hear about my kitty, then don't read my posts. Instead of
writing posts intended only to show your "passion" about declawation and to
stir up trouble, perhaps you could channel that energy into something less
upsetting like, grooming your cat or responding to someone else's post who
is anti-declawing.

Thanks to those who responded and gave me their advice!



"Priscilla Ballou" wrote in message
...
In article nk.net,
"Nicole" wrote:

In response - Yes, I've looked at the alternatives. Soft Paws (they

even
come in cute colors!!), training, sprays, the other procedure that

starts
with a T that I can't spell (tendenoniton or something), laser surgery,

nail
clipping, living with it.....so I asked a breeder in the area, because I
didn't want to do something that would hurt her....she told me this...
"if Hailey is an inside cat, she doesn't need to protect herself (she's

an
only child). If declawing was so inhumane, no vet would declaw any

animal."

It's illegal in many countries. Animal cruelty.

It took a lot of convincing, and my vet even let me watch a

procedure...so
we're going to go through with it. I realize that it's a VERY

controversial
topic, but I appreciate your advice! I'll keep ya posted!
Momma-Kittenhead


Oh, please don't. I don't want to hear about how you're mutilating your
poor kitten. Don't you understand that you're cutting off its toes?
That it's likely it'll have trouble balancing? It'll be in pain,
possibly for the rest of its life?

How anyone could do that to a creature they claim to love is beyond me,
but then human parents main and mutilate their children. We have laws
to take their children away from them. I'm just sorry no-one can take
that poor kitten away from you before you do this to it.

Priscilla
--
Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum,
minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
(thanks be to topfive.com)



  #15  
Old July 7th 03, 04:39 AM
Nicole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yes, I'm aware that it is illegal in several countries....as a matter of
fact, I bet I could name you several of the countries (such as those on
Great britian, Spain, portgual, brazil, Italy for sure, england, australia).
You know, I bet there are other people on here who aren't against declawing,
but I think I'm probably one of the only ones with the balls enough to say
"yeah, I've weighed the alternatives and have decided to declaw". When I
got Hailey I wasn't doing a jig to the thought of declawing her. I didn't
look at her and smile at the thought of taking off the nails. But I feel
confident in the trained PROFESSIONAL vets., I feel confident enough in
research and the experience of others that I'm doing the right thing.
With that said, I am basically saying, if you don't want to answer my
questions or hear about my kitty, then don't read my posts. Instead of
writing posts intended only to show your "passion" about declawation and to
stir up trouble, perhaps you could channel that energy into something less
upsetting like, grooming your cat or responding to someone else's post who
is anti-declawing.

Thanks to those who responded and gave me their advice!



"Priscilla Ballou" wrote in message
...
In article nk.net,
"Nicole" wrote:

In response - Yes, I've looked at the alternatives. Soft Paws (they

even
come in cute colors!!), training, sprays, the other procedure that

starts
with a T that I can't spell (tendenoniton or something), laser surgery,

nail
clipping, living with it.....so I asked a breeder in the area, because I
didn't want to do something that would hurt her....she told me this...
"if Hailey is an inside cat, she doesn't need to protect herself (she's

an
only child). If declawing was so inhumane, no vet would declaw any

animal."

It's illegal in many countries. Animal cruelty.

It took a lot of convincing, and my vet even let me watch a

procedure...so
we're going to go through with it. I realize that it's a VERY

controversial
topic, but I appreciate your advice! I'll keep ya posted!
Momma-Kittenhead


Oh, please don't. I don't want to hear about how you're mutilating your
poor kitten. Don't you understand that you're cutting off its toes?
That it's likely it'll have trouble balancing? It'll be in pain,
possibly for the rest of its life?

How anyone could do that to a creature they claim to love is beyond me,
but then human parents main and mutilate their children. We have laws
to take their children away from them. I'm just sorry no-one can take
that poor kitten away from you before you do this to it.

Priscilla
--
Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum,
minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
(thanks be to topfive.com)



  #16  
Old July 7th 03, 04:54 AM
Nicole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If you would like to talk about inhumane then perhaps we should talk about
your eating habits...such as, killing an animal simply so that YOU can
survive. Part of me wants to leave this argument alone but the other part
feels that I should defend the other point of view. I feel like a Jew being
Bible Thumped by a baptist!


"Laura R." wrote in message
.net...
circa Mon, 07 Jul 2003 03:04:48 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
Nicole ) said,
In response - Yes, I've looked at the alternatives. Soft Paws (they

even
come in cute colors!!),


Okay, and why have you rejected SoftPaws?

training, sprays, the other procedure that starts
with a T that I can't spell (tendenoniton or something),


Tendonectomy. It's like cutting the tendon that controls the first
joint in your fingers. Imagine your fingers with floppy tips and you
have a rough idea of what a tendonectomy does.

laser surgery,


Which is simply declawing using a laser instead of the usual device,
which pretty much looks like an industrial strength nail cutter, but
cuts off the cat's first joint instead of just the nail.

nail
clipping, living with it.....so I asked a breeder in the area, because I
didn't want to do something that would hurt her....she told me this...
"if Hailey is an inside cat, she doesn't need to protect herself (she's

an
only child).


So that justifies mutilating her?

If declawing was so inhumane, no vet would declaw any animal."


Now, *that* is a crock. Ask any veterinarian if they think declawing
is humane. 99% of them will tell you that it is not, but that they do
it because their clients who request it would get rid of the cat if
the vet didn't declaw.

It took a lot of convincing, and my vet even let me watch a procedure...


How much of it did you watch? Did you see exactly what it consists
of? It is *cutting off the cat's first joint*. What if your toes were
cut off at the first joint? How agile would you be? Would you feel
that it was "humane"?

so
we're going to go through with it.


WHY??? Why are you so willing to declaw but so unwilling to try the
other methods????

I realize that it's a VERY controversial
topic,


Yes, because it is inhumane. It is cruel. It is barbaric. There is a
reason that it is outlawed in many countries outside the United
States, and there is a reason that there is a push for similar
legislation in the United States.

but I appreciate your advice! I'll keep ya posted!
Momma-Kittenhead


Well, frankly, every bit of love that you claim to feel for your new
kitten just became suspect to me. Would you cut off your baby's
fingers at the first joint so that the baby wouldn't accidentally
scratch you with his/her nail?

You have not given a single reason *why* you feel that you have to
declaw your cat instead of trying something humane.

Laura

--
Don't try to make children grow up to be like you, or they may do it.
-Russell Baker



  #17  
Old July 7th 03, 04:54 AM
Nicole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If you would like to talk about inhumane then perhaps we should talk about
your eating habits...such as, killing an animal simply so that YOU can
survive. Part of me wants to leave this argument alone but the other part
feels that I should defend the other point of view. I feel like a Jew being
Bible Thumped by a baptist!


"Laura R." wrote in message
.net...
circa Mon, 07 Jul 2003 03:04:48 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
Nicole ) said,
In response - Yes, I've looked at the alternatives. Soft Paws (they

even
come in cute colors!!),


Okay, and why have you rejected SoftPaws?

training, sprays, the other procedure that starts
with a T that I can't spell (tendenoniton or something),


Tendonectomy. It's like cutting the tendon that controls the first
joint in your fingers. Imagine your fingers with floppy tips and you
have a rough idea of what a tendonectomy does.

laser surgery,


Which is simply declawing using a laser instead of the usual device,
which pretty much looks like an industrial strength nail cutter, but
cuts off the cat's first joint instead of just the nail.

nail
clipping, living with it.....so I asked a breeder in the area, because I
didn't want to do something that would hurt her....she told me this...
"if Hailey is an inside cat, she doesn't need to protect herself (she's

an
only child).


So that justifies mutilating her?

If declawing was so inhumane, no vet would declaw any animal."


Now, *that* is a crock. Ask any veterinarian if they think declawing
is humane. 99% of them will tell you that it is not, but that they do
it because their clients who request it would get rid of the cat if
the vet didn't declaw.

It took a lot of convincing, and my vet even let me watch a procedure...


How much of it did you watch? Did you see exactly what it consists
of? It is *cutting off the cat's first joint*. What if your toes were
cut off at the first joint? How agile would you be? Would you feel
that it was "humane"?

so
we're going to go through with it.


WHY??? Why are you so willing to declaw but so unwilling to try the
other methods????

I realize that it's a VERY controversial
topic,


Yes, because it is inhumane. It is cruel. It is barbaric. There is a
reason that it is outlawed in many countries outside the United
States, and there is a reason that there is a push for similar
legislation in the United States.

but I appreciate your advice! I'll keep ya posted!
Momma-Kittenhead


Well, frankly, every bit of love that you claim to feel for your new
kitten just became suspect to me. Would you cut off your baby's
fingers at the first joint so that the baby wouldn't accidentally
scratch you with his/her nail?

You have not given a single reason *why* you feel that you have to
declaw your cat instead of trying something humane.

Laura

--
Don't try to make children grow up to be like you, or they may do it.
-Russell Baker



  #18  
Old July 7th 03, 05:42 AM
Karen Chuplis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

in article k.net, Nicole
at wrote on 7/6/03 10:39 PM:

Yes, I'm aware that it is illegal in several countries....as a matter of
fact, I bet I could name you several of the countries (such as those on
Great britian, Spain, portgual, brazil, Italy for sure, england, australia).
You know, I bet there are other people on here who aren't against declawing,
but I think I'm probably one of the only ones with the balls enough to say
"yeah, I've weighed the alternatives and have decided to declaw". When I
got Hailey I wasn't doing a jig to the thought of declawing her. I didn't
look at her and smile at the thought of taking off the nails.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You claim to have thought this through but that statement shows your
ignorance or denial. It is AMPUTATING the toe to the FIRST JOINT. Not
"taking off the nails."



But I feel
confident in the trained PROFESSIONAL vets., I feel confident enough in
research and the experience of others that I'm doing the right thing.
With that said, I am basically saying, if you don't want to answer my
questions or hear about my kitty, then don't read my posts. Instead of
writing posts intended only to show your "passion" about declawation and to
stir up trouble, perhaps you could channel that energy into something less
upsetting like, grooming your cat or responding to someone else's post who
is anti-declawing.


If you ask for advice in a cat group, this is going to come up.

Karen

  #19  
Old July 7th 03, 05:42 AM
Karen Chuplis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

in article k.net, Nicole
at wrote on 7/6/03 10:39 PM:

Yes, I'm aware that it is illegal in several countries....as a matter of
fact, I bet I could name you several of the countries (such as those on
Great britian, Spain, portgual, brazil, Italy for sure, england, australia).
You know, I bet there are other people on here who aren't against declawing,
but I think I'm probably one of the only ones with the balls enough to say
"yeah, I've weighed the alternatives and have decided to declaw". When I
got Hailey I wasn't doing a jig to the thought of declawing her. I didn't
look at her and smile at the thought of taking off the nails.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You claim to have thought this through but that statement shows your
ignorance or denial. It is AMPUTATING the toe to the FIRST JOINT. Not
"taking off the nails."



But I feel
confident in the trained PROFESSIONAL vets., I feel confident enough in
research and the experience of others that I'm doing the right thing.
With that said, I am basically saying, if you don't want to answer my
questions or hear about my kitty, then don't read my posts. Instead of
writing posts intended only to show your "passion" about declawation and to
stir up trouble, perhaps you could channel that energy into something less
upsetting like, grooming your cat or responding to someone else's post who
is anti-declawing.


If you ask for advice in a cat group, this is going to come up.

Karen

  #20  
Old July 7th 03, 06:00 AM
Cathy Friedmann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Laura R." wrote in message
.net...
circa Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:15:11 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
Cathy Friedmann ) said,
Two of my cats
have been front-declaws (one was my decision back in '86, & the other

came
that way when I adopted her in '93) - w/ no resultant problems that I

can
tell. Although, I assume as w/ any surgery, there must *sometimes* be
adverse after-effects.


Alex, my aforementioned biter, came to me declawed. Guess how he
compensates for his lack of claws?

Laura


Otoh, my biter cat is Mr. Fully-Clawed (aka Herrie).

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon


 




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