BAD BAD experience today with my cat at the vet.

I took my cat in today because he seemed to be having trouble
breathing. He is a 15 year old domestic shorthair who has only been
sick one other time, and only been to the vet once for neutering as a
kitten.

He of course was very scared by them and stopped breathing hardly at
all, they drained his lungs almost emergency style and then delivered
what seemed like a fear based sales pitch:

"He most likely has feline aids or feline leukimia, his lungs are
filling with fluid and he cannot be helped unless we keep him for 6-7
weeks and drain and rinse his lungs with solution and keep him on
atinobiotics. This only has an 15% chanc eof working. If you choose to
do the human thing he wont suffer at all. If you don't he will most
likely die a horrible death gasping and panicing for air and crying out
at home"

I declined as when I seen him again he was breathing normally and was
"him" and got antibiotics instead and hope by some chance they will
work.

All I could think is if I went in with pnemonia and was told I have
3-4 days to live because I have aids, simply from the doctor listening
to my lungs with a stethescope I would think the doctor had went
insane. Then if he hit me over the head with a dead chicken (about as
weird the cat getting his temp taken rectally I suppose) and I had
trouble breathing and he drained my lungs to help me, I would not think
all is lost and would wanna try some antibiotics.

Or at LEAST die at home with my last experience not being some strange
place and weird people.

I have NO guilt for this, even if his last minutes are terrible, he
will get a few more days I suppose, and have memories of us loving him
and playing with him. PLUS he seems fine now, the vet assured us his
lungs would refill with fluid and he would die, but I have trouble
believing it with his curent condition.

I DO however have a couple questions, is it possible the vet is wrong?
Is there anything I should know here? Not to comfort me, but maybe to
save him? (I need no comfort in the fact that he will not be crying out
for help in his last seconds unable to breath, as if something cannot
breath it cannot force air out of its lungs to cry out, I am almost
sure he will drown in his sleep at the worst, and this "horrible death"
was a sales pitch of some sort).

Anything I am not being told, should I take him to another vet?

bobsacemano wrote:

I took my cat in today because he seemed to be having trouble
breathing. He is a 15 year old domestic shorthair who has only been
sick one other time, and only been to the vet once for neutering as a
kitten.

He of course was very scared by them and stopped breathing hardly at
all, they drained his lungs almost emergency style and then delivered
what seemed like a fear based sales pitch:

"He most likely has feline aids or feline leukimia, his lungs are
filling with fluid and he cannot be helped unless we keep him for 6-7
weeks and drain and rinse his lungs with solution and keep him on
atinobiotics. This only has an 15% chanc eof working. If you choose to
do the human thing he wont suffer at all. If you don't he will most
likely die a horrible death gasping and panicing for air and crying out
at home"

I declined as when I seen him again he was breathing normally and was
"him" and got antibiotics instead and hope by some chance they will
work.

All I could think is if I went in with pnemonia and was told I have
3-4 days to live because I have aids, simply from the doctor listening
to my lungs with a stethescope I would think the doctor had went
insane. Then if he hit me over the head with a dead chicken (about as
weird the cat getting his temp taken rectally I suppose) and I had
trouble breathing and he drained my lungs to help me, I would not think
all is lost and would wanna try some antibiotics.

Or at LEAST die at home with my last experience not being some strange
place and weird people.

I have NO guilt for this, even if his last minutes are terrible, he
will get a few more days I suppose, and have memories of us loving him
and playing with him. PLUS he seems fine now, the vet assured us his
lungs would refill with fluid and he would die, but I have trouble
believing it with his curent condition.

I DO however have a couple questions, is it possible the vet is wrong?
Is there anything I should know here? Not to comfort me, but maybe to
save him? (I need no comfort in the fact that he will not be crying out
for help in his last seconds unable to breath, as if something cannot
breath it cannot force air out of its lungs to cry out, I am almost
sure he will drown in his sleep at the worst, and this "horrible death"
was a sales pitch of some sort).

Anything I am not being told, should I take him to another vet?


Seeking a 2nd opinion is a always a good idea.

Margarita Salt wrote:

bobsacemano wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:


should I take him to another vet?


Bingo! And I'm sure you know this, but he should have had regular vet
visits all along for two solid reason: (1) To hopefully keep him from
being fearful of all the trip entails, and (2) so that at the very
least you have a vet who is familiar with your cat and his ailments and
habits so that diagnoses aren't as much of a crapshoot


There are also some "solid" reasons for some folks that this doesn't
happen, particulary for those who move around a lot. Military people
come to mind.



Take him to another vet, since you have no relationship with anyone in
partcular, and get another opinion. I hope you and your kitty will be
fine.

"bobsacemano"

Take him to another vet specially with this news a blood test would have
shown feline aids

I won't state medical advice but it could be lung infection or anything
never trust just one vet

Some vets are just not that good. In the morning take him to another vet
tell him why you brought him to the other vet but let this vet do a diagnose
instead of already having a mental picture done for him

And when it is time for him to go you will know it is time to take him to
get what needs to be done.

I am sorry you are in this situation. I would PING PHIL P in this newsgroup
and give the medical information that was given to you

bobsacemano wrote:
I took my cat in today because he seemed to be having trouble
breathing. He is a 15 year old domestic shorthair who has only been
sick one other time, and only been to the vet once for neutering as a
kitten.

What were his symptoms - wheezing? coughing? gasping? pawing at mouth?


He of course was very scared by them and stopped breathing hardly at
all, they drained his lungs almost emergency style and then delivered
what seemed like a fear based sales pitch:

"He most likely has feline aids or feline leukimia,

First, this is a crock of ****. They should have asked you if it was
ok to test for both - the test takes 15 minutes, tops.

his lungs are
filling with fluid and he cannot be helped unless we keep him for 6-7
weeks and drain and rinse his lungs with solution and keep him on
atinobiotics. This only has an 15% chanc eof working. If you choose to
do the human thing he wont suffer at all. If you don't he will most
likely die a horrible death gasping and panicing for air and crying out
at home"

I declined as when I seen him again he was breathing normally and was
"him" and got antibiotics instead and hope by some chance they will
work.

All I could think is if I went in with pnemonia and was told I have
3-4 days to live because I have aids, simply from the doctor listening
to my lungs with a stethescope I would think the doctor had went
insane.

And that would the the correct assumption.

Then if he hit me over the head with a dead chicken (about as
weird the cat getting his temp taken rectally I suppose) and I had
trouble breathing and he drained my lungs to help me, I would not think
all is lost and would wanna try some antibiotics.

Or at LEAST die at home with my last experience not being some strange
place and weird people.

I have NO guilt for this, even if his last minutes are terrible, he
will get a few more days I suppose, and have memories of us loving him
and playing with him. PLUS he seems fine now, the vet assured us his
lungs would refill with fluid and he would die, but I have trouble
believing it with his curent condition.

This whole scenario sounds weird. Did they take an x-ray and show it
to you to prove to you the cat had pneumonia? Did you see them drain
the lungs? generally, pneumonia is not treated by drining the lungs
unless it is extremely severe, and if that was the case, they should
have taken an x-ray to see how severe it was.


I DO however have a couple questions, is it possible the vet is wrong?

Very possible.

Is there anything I should know here?

The above.

Not to comfort me, but maybe to
save him? (I need no comfort in the fact that he will not be crying out
for help in his last seconds unable to breath, as if something cannot
breath it cannot force air out of its lungs to cry out, I am almost
sure he will drown in his sleep at the worst, and this "horrible death"
was a sales pitch of some sort).

Anything I am not being told, should I take him to another vet?

If he continues to have trouble breathing, absolutely take him to
another vet. This entire fiasco sounds fishy. Was this an emergency
vet?

Without any more detail it sounds more likely that the cat was having
an asthma attack, they gave him some meds to resolve it and some
oxygen, and he was fine. A cat with pneumonia will act *very* sick.

Please supply a little more detail about what the symptoms were and
what treatment actually occurred - what did you see, if anything?

-L.

Joe Canuck wrote:

There are also some "solid" reasons for some folks that this doesn't
happen, particulary for those who move around a lot. Military people
come to mind.


The owner would still know what is normal for his cat. Some cats freak
out at the vet's office, so it would be helpful to know if breathing
changes are a normal reaction or something unusual.

When I take my cat to the vet with a problem, even though it is my
regular vet, he still relies on *my* opinion of what is normal for my
cat.

So, when I took Kira in as a kitten, and said she was lethargic, he
believed me even though she was walking around and not just laying
there. She was lethargic compared to her normal self.

The vet will ask about appetite, energy, etc. It helps to know what is
normal. And behavior at a vet visit is also part of that normal
behavior.

Several years ago, my mom found a cat on the side of the road. He had
been hit, and had some bad injuries including a broken jaw. We paid for
thevet care and brought him home. He seemed to be improving, but 2 1/2
weeks after bringing him home, he died. He seemed fine that morning,
but I knew it was serious when I got home from work. We didn't have a
24 hour vet then, so we were going to be there at the office when it
opened. He didn't make it that long.

There was nothing I could do, since I got him after he was hit by the
car. But I really wish that I would have known what was normal for him.
He seemed so mellow and easy going, but he could have been sick and in
pain, and we just didn't know. He was at the vet's office 3 times the
week he died, and everybody, including the vet, thought he was
improving. We just didn't have anything to compare his behavior to.

Vets are not telepathic or psychic. They rely on tehir experiences with
all the cats and dogs they have seen over the years. But that doesn't
mean that your cat is typical or normal. They still have to rely on the
owner to be the judge of behavior changes, which are clues to the
problem. And this includes knowing how the cat reacts to strangers and
vet exams.

"bobsacemano" wrote in message
oups.com...

I took my cat in today because he seemed to be having trouble
breathing. He is a 15 year old domestic shorthair who has only been
sick one other time, and only been to the vet once for neutering as a
kitten.

He of course was very scared by them and stopped breathing hardly at
all, they drained his lungs almost emergency style and then delivered
what seemed like a fear based sales pitch:

"He most likely has feline aids or feline leukimia, his lungs are
filling with fluid and he cannot be helped unless we keep him for 6-7
weeks and drain and rinse his lungs with solution and keep him on
atinobiotics. This only has an 15% chanc eof working. If you choose to
do the human thing he wont suffer at all. If you don't he will most
likely die a horrible death gasping and panicing for air and crying out
at home"


This is absolute erroneous nonsense. First of all, neither FIV (feline
'aids') nor Feline Leukemia produce pleural effusions. At your cat's age
FeLV and FIV are *very* highly unlikely- if not actually *impossible*-
unless your cat was bitten by a FeLV/FIV infected cat. If your cat had
either disease, you would have noticed a steady deterioration in his overall
physical condition over the last few months to years. The test to rule out
FeLV/FIV takes less than 10 minutes and can be performed by a simple blood
test in your vet's office. Its called FeLV/FIV Combo Snap test and costs
about $25.


I declined as when I seen him again he was breathing normally and was
"him" and got antibiotics instead and hope by some chance they will
work.

All I could think is if I went in with pnemonia and was told I have
3-4 days to live because I have aids, simply from the doctor listening
to my lungs with a stethescope I would think the doctor had went
insane.


You would probably be correct.


Then if he hit me over the head with a dead chicken (about as
weird the cat getting his temp taken rectally I suppose) and I had
trouble breathing and he drained my lungs to help me, I would not think
all is lost and would wanna try some antibiotics.

Or at LEAST die at home with my last experience not being some strange
place and weird people.

I have NO guilt for this, even if his last minutes are terrible, he
will get a few more days I suppose, and have memories of us loving him
and playing with him. PLUS he seems fine now, the vet assured us his
lungs would refill with fluid and he would die, but I have trouble
believing it with his curent condition.


His lungs may refill with fluid again, but another thoracocentesis would
relieve respiratory distress immediately.



I DO however have a couple questions, is it possible the vet is wrong?


Absolutely! The vet is not not only possibly wrong- he's *probably* wrong.


Is there anything I should know here? Not to comfort me, but maybe to
save him?


Yes.


(I need no comfort in the fact that he will not be crying out
for help in his last seconds unable to breath, as if something cannot
breath it cannot force air out of its lungs to cry out, I am almost
sure he will drown in his sleep at the worst, and this "horrible death"
was a sales pitch of some sort).

Anything I am not being told, should I take him to another vet?


The first order of business is find another vet ASAP and get the fluid
analyzed to determine the *type* of fluid. Several diseases can produce
fluids- non of which are FIV/FeLV. There are several types of fluid ( e.g.,
transudates, modified transudates, septic exudates, nonseptic exudates,
neoplastic, chylous, hemorrhagic). The type of fluid depends on the disease
process that's producing the fluid. At your cat's age, my first guess would
be heart disease, CHF secondary to hyperthrophic cardiomyopathy- *both* of
which can be treated with medications.

In many, if not most cases pleural effusions can be controlled with
medications called "diuretics" (furosemide a/k/a Lasix). Although the fluid
may need be to be drained again (thoracocentesis) to provide immediate
relief until the diuretic takes affect. Once the effusion is under control,
the dose should be reduced to the lowest possible dose because cats are
sensitive to diuretics and prone to dehydration and electrolyte imbalances.


I strongly suggest you seek a secon opinion *ASAP* and order x-rays and an
ultrasound. The ultrasound should be performed *before* the fluid is
drained because the fluid actually enhances the ultrasound image- unless
your cat is in severe respiratory distress.

However, the most important step is having the fluid analyzed ASAP- this
will help identify the process that's producing the fluid and greatly help
the vet proper a treatment plan.

Please seek a second opinion *ASAP*.

Keep the faith.

Best of luck,

Phil.

"-L." wrote in message
oups.com...

bobsacemano wrote:
I took my cat in today because he seemed to be having trouble
breathing. He is a 15 year old domestic shorthair who has only been
sick one other time, and only been to the vet once for neutering as a
kitten.

What were his symptoms - wheezing? coughing? gasping? pawing at mouth?


He of course was very scared by them and stopped breathing hardly at
all, they drained his lungs almost emergency style and then delivered
what seemed like a fear based sales pitch:

"He most likely has feline aids or feline leukimia,

First, this is a crock of ****.
They should have asked you if it was
ok to test for both - the test takes 15 minutes, tops.


Wow! We actually agree on something!



his lungs are
filling with fluid and he cannot be helped unless we keep him for 6-7
weeks and drain and rinse his lungs with solution and keep him on
atinobiotics. This only has an 15% chanc eof working. If you choose to
do the human thing he wont suffer at all. If you don't he will most
likely die a horrible death gasping and panicing for air and crying out
at home"

I declined as when I seen him again he was breathing normally and was
"him" and got antibiotics instead and hope by some chance they will
work.

All I could think is if I went in with pnemonia and was told I have
3-4 days to live because I have aids, simply from the doctor listening
to my lungs with a stethescope I would think the doctor had went
insane.

And that would the the correct assumption.

Then if he hit me over the head with a dead chicken (about as
weird the cat getting his temp taken rectally I suppose) and I had
trouble breathing and he drained my lungs to help me, I would not think
all is lost and would wanna try some antibiotics.

Or at LEAST die at home with my last experience not being some strange
place and weird people.

I have NO guilt for this, even if his last minutes are terrible, he
will get a few more days I suppose, and have memories of us loving him
and playing with him. PLUS he seems fine now, the vet assured us his
lungs would refill with fluid and he would die, but I have trouble
believing it with his curent condition.

This whole scenario sounds weird. Did they take an x-ray and show it
to you to prove to you the cat had pneumonia? Did you see them drain
the lungs? generally, pneumonia is not treated by drining the lungs
unless it is extremely severe, and if that was the case, they should
have taken an x-ray to see how severe it was.


I DO however have a couple questions, is it possible the vet is wrong?

Very possible.

Is there anything I should know here?

The above.

Not to comfort me, but maybe to
save him? (I need no comfort in the fact that he will not be crying out
for help in his last seconds unable to breath, as if something cannot
breath it cannot force air out of its lungs to cry out, I am almost
sure he will drown in his sleep at the worst, and this "horrible death"
was a sales pitch of some sort).

Anything I am not being told, should I take him to another vet?

If he continues to have trouble breathing, absolutely take him to
another vet. This entire fiasco sounds fishy.

"Fishy"? Have you ever heard of such a BS story? This is probably one of
the worst BS stories I've ever heard of a vet giving a client. I'd say it
borders on gross incompetence. My guess is the vet is clueless and wants to
kill the cat before the client gets a second opinion and finds out the vet
is clueless and incompetent.

bobsacemano wrote:
Anything I am not being told, should I take him to another vet?

I find it highly suspect that all of the sudden a 15 year old cat is
going to have FIV or FelV, and even worse that this vet didn't do the
proper testing for these diseases. I would absolutely take him to a
different vet at a different clinic.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Lauren

see my cats: http://tinyurl.com/8glfv

What do you think the vet is trying to "sell" you?

Taking your cat home to die in pain is not humane. If he is in pain,
euthanasia is the most humane option. Better he die painlessly in a
strange place (hopefully with you with him) than horribly in a familiar
place.

M.