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Enrofloxacin vs Orbafloxacin ?



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 20th 03, 05:15 PM
Yngver
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Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:

As stated earlier the urine culture results came back negative.
My vet is assuming that she has a kidney infection but doesn't
know what kind of organism it is (if it's really an infection).

So it may not be easy to say if enrofloxacin or Orbifloxacin
will work better in this case.

Thanks again for the info.

I should add that in my case, my cat was clearly very sick and it wouldn't have
been prudent to waffle about whether to switch her from Baytril to Orbax when
she had not responded to other antibiotics prior to administering Baytil.

In your case, it's not even clear that your cat has an infection, correct? The
evidence was the blood in the urine sample, but is there any other sign of
infection? My cat was running a very high fever.

Here are some references you can look at:
http://www.vetmedcenter.com/professi...688&doctype=ED
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/vet_common/..._march2003.pdf

This second one from Tufts may have the info you are looking for. It describes
studies designed to determine a correlation between dosage of Baytril and Orbax
and retinal degeneration in cats. While both drugs produced incidences of
blindness at high dosages, the mfr of Orbax determined the drug to be safe at a
dosage of 15 mg/kg per day (although one cat did develop retinal degeneration
on this dosage), while Bayer's toxicity test of Baytril found no incidence of
retinal damage at the currently recommended max dosage of 5 mg/kg per day.

You may want to show this article to your vet, if you still want to argue the
case with him.
  #22  
Old November 20th 03, 05:15 PM
Yngver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:

As stated earlier the urine culture results came back negative.
My vet is assuming that she has a kidney infection but doesn't
know what kind of organism it is (if it's really an infection).

So it may not be easy to say if enrofloxacin or Orbifloxacin
will work better in this case.

Thanks again for the info.

I should add that in my case, my cat was clearly very sick and it wouldn't have
been prudent to waffle about whether to switch her from Baytril to Orbax when
she had not responded to other antibiotics prior to administering Baytil.

In your case, it's not even clear that your cat has an infection, correct? The
evidence was the blood in the urine sample, but is there any other sign of
infection? My cat was running a very high fever.

Here are some references you can look at:
http://www.vetmedcenter.com/professi...688&doctype=ED
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/vet_common/..._march2003.pdf

This second one from Tufts may have the info you are looking for. It describes
studies designed to determine a correlation between dosage of Baytril and Orbax
and retinal degeneration in cats. While both drugs produced incidences of
blindness at high dosages, the mfr of Orbax determined the drug to be safe at a
dosage of 15 mg/kg per day (although one cat did develop retinal degeneration
on this dosage), while Bayer's toxicity test of Baytril found no incidence of
retinal damage at the currently recommended max dosage of 5 mg/kg per day.

You may want to show this article to your vet, if you still want to argue the
case with him.
  #23  
Old November 20th 03, 09:08 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


ospam (Yngver) wrote:
wrote:

As stated earlier the urine culture results came back negative.
My vet is assuming that she has a kidney infection but doesn't
know what kind of organism it is (if it's really an infection).

So it may not be easy to say if enrofloxacin or Orbifloxacin
will work better in this case.

Thanks again for the info.

I should add that in my case, my cat was clearly very sick
and it wouldn't have been prudent to waffle about whether to
switch her from Baytril to Orbax when she had not responded
to other antibiotics prior to administering Baytil.

In your case, it's not even clear that your cat has an
infection, correct? The evidence was the blood in the urine
sample, but is there any other sign of infection ? My cat was
running a very high fever.

Here are some references you can look at:
http://www.vetmedcenter.com/professi...688&doctype=ED
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/vet_common/..._march2003.pdf

This second one from Tufts may have the info you are looking
for. It describes studies designed to determine a correlation
between dosage of Baytril and Orbax and retinal degeneration
in cats. While both drugs produced incidences of blindness at
high dosages, the mfr of Orbax determined the drug to be safe
at a dosage of 15 mg/kg per day (although one cat did develop
retinal degeneration on this dosage), while Bayer's toxicity
test of Baytril found no incidence of retinal damage at the
currently recommended max dosage of 5 mg/kg per day.

You may want to show this article to your vet, if you still
want to argue the case with him.


Thanks Yngver. My cat lost some weight a couple of weeks ago
(which I thought was due to all the smoke from the wild fires)
but has gained most of it back.

Right now beside the high red blood cell counts in the urine
she's doing just fine. I don't even have to give her Prednisone
(for the IBD) that often any more.

Another option is to check her urine again in a week or two.
I think there's a good chance it will be normal again.
  #24  
Old November 20th 03, 09:08 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


ospam (Yngver) wrote:
wrote:

As stated earlier the urine culture results came back negative.
My vet is assuming that she has a kidney infection but doesn't
know what kind of organism it is (if it's really an infection).

So it may not be easy to say if enrofloxacin or Orbifloxacin
will work better in this case.

Thanks again for the info.

I should add that in my case, my cat was clearly very sick
and it wouldn't have been prudent to waffle about whether to
switch her from Baytril to Orbax when she had not responded
to other antibiotics prior to administering Baytil.

In your case, it's not even clear that your cat has an
infection, correct? The evidence was the blood in the urine
sample, but is there any other sign of infection ? My cat was
running a very high fever.

Here are some references you can look at:
http://www.vetmedcenter.com/professi...688&doctype=ED
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/vet_common/..._march2003.pdf

This second one from Tufts may have the info you are looking
for. It describes studies designed to determine a correlation
between dosage of Baytril and Orbax and retinal degeneration
in cats. While both drugs produced incidences of blindness at
high dosages, the mfr of Orbax determined the drug to be safe
at a dosage of 15 mg/kg per day (although one cat did develop
retinal degeneration on this dosage), while Bayer's toxicity
test of Baytril found no incidence of retinal damage at the
currently recommended max dosage of 5 mg/kg per day.

You may want to show this article to your vet, if you still
want to argue the case with him.


Thanks Yngver. My cat lost some weight a couple of weeks ago
(which I thought was due to all the smoke from the wild fires)
but has gained most of it back.

Right now beside the high red blood cell counts in the urine
she's doing just fine. I don't even have to give her Prednisone
(for the IBD) that often any more.

Another option is to check her urine again in a week or two.
I think there's a good chance it will be normal again.
  #25  
Old November 20th 03, 09:08 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


ospam (Yngver) wrote:
wrote:

As stated earlier the urine culture results came back negative.
My vet is assuming that she has a kidney infection but doesn't
know what kind of organism it is (if it's really an infection).

So it may not be easy to say if enrofloxacin or Orbifloxacin
will work better in this case.

Thanks again for the info.

I should add that in my case, my cat was clearly very sick
and it wouldn't have been prudent to waffle about whether to
switch her from Baytril to Orbax when she had not responded
to other antibiotics prior to administering Baytil.

In your case, it's not even clear that your cat has an
infection, correct? The evidence was the blood in the urine
sample, but is there any other sign of infection ? My cat was
running a very high fever.

Here are some references you can look at:
http://www.vetmedcenter.com/professi...688&doctype=ED
http://www.tufts.edu/vet/vet_common/..._march2003.pdf

This second one from Tufts may have the info you are looking
for. It describes studies designed to determine a correlation
between dosage of Baytril and Orbax and retinal degeneration
in cats. While both drugs produced incidences of blindness at
high dosages, the mfr of Orbax determined the drug to be safe
at a dosage of 15 mg/kg per day (although one cat did develop
retinal degeneration on this dosage), while Bayer's toxicity
test of Baytril found no incidence of retinal damage at the
currently recommended max dosage of 5 mg/kg per day.

You may want to show this article to your vet, if you still
want to argue the case with him.


Thanks Yngver. My cat lost some weight a couple of weeks ago
(which I thought was due to all the smoke from the wild fires)
but has gained most of it back.

Right now beside the high red blood cell counts in the urine
she's doing just fine. I don't even have to give her Prednisone
(for the IBD) that often any more.

Another option is to check her urine again in a week or two.
I think there's a good chance it will be normal again.
  #29  
Old November 21st 03, 04:19 AM
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
nk.net...

My cat Casper had her teeth cleaned a few weeks ago
and the vet told me that she had a high level of red
blood cell in her urine.

After 1 week of Clavamox the level was still high
and the urine culture results came back negative,
i.e. they weren't able to grow anything.

So my vet is saying that she probably has an infection
in the kidneys and wants her to take Enrofloxacin.

Today I faxed him the following article :

http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB...00/PR00528.htm

"Enrofloxacin has recently been associated with retinal
degeneration in cats at the recommended dose rate.
Affected cats present with rapid onset of blindness
after systemic enrofloxacin administration. Affected
cats have typical lesions of retinal degeneration.
Discontinuation of enrofloxacin as soon as visual
problems are noted may result in improvement in vision
in some, but not all cases. No doubt guidelines will
be forthcoming regarding the use of enrofloxacin in
cats in view of increasing numbers of anecdotal adverse
reaction reports as well as published data or its
potential toxicity."

I asked him if Orbifloxacin (recommended by Phil) is safer
but he said that there are not enough statistics to show
that it is safer. He said there are a lot more statistics
on Enrofloxacin because it's been used on millions of cats
during the past 10 years. So I told him that I wanted to
think about it for a few days.

What would you do in this situation ?

Casper seems to be doing better and has gained back some
weight during the past week. She's recovering from IBD
and doesn't need Prednisone that much any more but this
probably has nothing to do with blood in the urine.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.


Chester,

I would go with Orbax -- so do all four of our vets - who see considerably
more animals per year than the average vet.

There's really no rational reason for using Baytril. Orbax is same-class
antibiotic, its safer, more potent, and requires a smaller dose... Its even
less expensive... which might free-up money for additional tests and
treatment, if needed, for people on a tight budget.

Remember, the extensive original efficacy testing found Baytril to be most
efficacious at 20 mg/kg... Now, after almost *5 years* of numerous reports
of blindness in cats, Bayer reduced the dosage by *75%* (5 mg/kg)... If
Baytril was *really* efficacious at *25%* of the original recommended dose,
why wasn't the *original* recommended dose 5 mg/kg??? Its the same
principal as taking 1/2 an aspirin instead of two and expecting the same
results...

So, if I were you, I would take the arguments by the Baytril proponents
with a grain a salt... Some people are awakened with a feather... Others
need to be hit with a sledgehammer before they wake up...

Have you tried Hill's Prescription Diet d/d for Casper's IBD? It contains a
single protein source. We've had *excellent* results with d/d in our IBD
cats.

Good luck.

Phil.


  #30  
Old November 21st 03, 04:19 AM
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
nk.net...

My cat Casper had her teeth cleaned a few weeks ago
and the vet told me that she had a high level of red
blood cell in her urine.

After 1 week of Clavamox the level was still high
and the urine culture results came back negative,
i.e. they weren't able to grow anything.

So my vet is saying that she probably has an infection
in the kidneys and wants her to take Enrofloxacin.

Today I faxed him the following article :

http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB...00/PR00528.htm

"Enrofloxacin has recently been associated with retinal
degeneration in cats at the recommended dose rate.
Affected cats present with rapid onset of blindness
after systemic enrofloxacin administration. Affected
cats have typical lesions of retinal degeneration.
Discontinuation of enrofloxacin as soon as visual
problems are noted may result in improvement in vision
in some, but not all cases. No doubt guidelines will
be forthcoming regarding the use of enrofloxacin in
cats in view of increasing numbers of anecdotal adverse
reaction reports as well as published data or its
potential toxicity."

I asked him if Orbifloxacin (recommended by Phil) is safer
but he said that there are not enough statistics to show
that it is safer. He said there are a lot more statistics
on Enrofloxacin because it's been used on millions of cats
during the past 10 years. So I told him that I wanted to
think about it for a few days.

What would you do in this situation ?

Casper seems to be doing better and has gained back some
weight during the past week. She's recovering from IBD
and doesn't need Prednisone that much any more but this
probably has nothing to do with blood in the urine.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.


Chester,

I would go with Orbax -- so do all four of our vets - who see considerably
more animals per year than the average vet.

There's really no rational reason for using Baytril. Orbax is same-class
antibiotic, its safer, more potent, and requires a smaller dose... Its even
less expensive... which might free-up money for additional tests and
treatment, if needed, for people on a tight budget.

Remember, the extensive original efficacy testing found Baytril to be most
efficacious at 20 mg/kg... Now, after almost *5 years* of numerous reports
of blindness in cats, Bayer reduced the dosage by *75%* (5 mg/kg)... If
Baytril was *really* efficacious at *25%* of the original recommended dose,
why wasn't the *original* recommended dose 5 mg/kg??? Its the same
principal as taking 1/2 an aspirin instead of two and expecting the same
results...

So, if I were you, I would take the arguments by the Baytril proponents
with a grain a salt... Some people are awakened with a feather... Others
need to be hit with a sledgehammer before they wake up...

Have you tried Hill's Prescription Diet d/d for Casper's IBD? It contains a
single protein source. We've had *excellent* results with d/d in our IBD
cats.

Good luck.

Phil.


 




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