What's the deal with Hill's m/d?

In ,
Phil P. composed with style:
"Cheryl" wrote in message
...

d/d is a prescription diet, so your vet will probably have to order
it.

Taking Shamrock tomorrow so I'll have them order some if they don't
have it.


Have you tried gradually adding water to his dry food -- in very
small increments -- until the consistency is similar to canned
food? This might make the transition a little easier - it doesn't
work on all cats - but its worth a shot.

I've tried that, tried mixing the dry with canned also. He's down to
a very little bit of dry food now. I think the crappy Friskies is
causing loose stools for Shamrock now.

Speak to your vet about a vit/min supplement - to give separately.
Although a balanced diet would be better. Don't use a so-called
palatÂ*able or chewable veterinary vit/mineral suppleÂ*ment- use
fractionated doses from a multivitamin and minÂ*eral supp.

I only use natural supplements now and put them in gelcaps; both get
fish oil each night: a 1000 mg cap dribbled into small gelcaps to make
3 doses, they each get one of those thirds. I got a Wysong supplement
that you sprinkle on the food (contains catnip of all things!) which I
only use when feeding the chicken and less real catfood. It has
taurine in it. Now ya'll have me worried about too much protein and
fat when feeding all meat. *sigh* Still giving the F&S VitaCaps (vet
is ok with that for both kitties).

I only do this to get past some of the
worse flare-ups because I'm not so sure it's balanced enough

[ IBD recipes]

I think I have a few somewhere - I'll take a look when I get back
to my main computer.

I'd appreciate it.

Have you tried adding omega-3s? They should help reduce
inflammation.

See above fish oil

Did you ever try the glutamine you asked about?

1 600mg capsule every other day.

"Jon C" wrote in message . ..
"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
Adkin's diet for cats? Steve, you elluded to this. Now that the cat
is out of the bag, do you feel like sharing? What is the protein
source?

Protein... .......Can.. 52.8%......Dry... 52.0%
Fat... ..............Can.. 20.2%.....Dry... 22.0%
Carb... ...........Can...15.7%......Dry... 15.5%
Fiber... ...........Can.. ..6.0%......Dry... 5.5%
Calcium... ......Can.. .0.85%.....Dry... 0.89%
Phosphorus... Can...0.69%......Dry... 0.76%
Sodium... .......Can.. .0.36%......Dry... 0.36%
Potassium..... Can...0.77%.......Dry... 0.73%
Magnesium... .Can.. .0.065%...Dry...0.046%
Taurine ... ......Can.. .0.30%......Dry... 0.30%
Carnitine... ...Can.. 524.2.........Dry... 553.9 (ppm)


I don't get it... how is 15.5% DM "low carbs"? Wellness, among others, have
carb levels that are far lower..

Jon


Jon,
The objective of a metabolic ketosis generating food is to switch
the cat into a state of ketosis. Basically change the cat from
utilizing glucose over to ketosis. Both MD and DM dry products are
about 15% DMB carbohydrates. Both cause ketosis. Driving carbohydrates
any lower serves absolutely no positive gain. An analogy is shooting a
gopher. A 22 beullet through the head kills the gopher, a 12 guage
shotgun will do the trick too. Either way the gopher is dead. If you
can drive the cat into ketosis with 15% carbs, then it is possible to
pay attention to other issues, like insuring there isn't excess levels
of calcium and phosphorus in the diet. What happens when you go to
extremes like Fancy Feast with 0.0% carbs, is that you end up with
calcium at 2.3% and phosphorus at 1.8% both waaaay in excess of
maximum levels appropriate for any adult cat, even a kitten, and quite
dangerous for a cat over 12 years of age.
Most wellness products I have looked at are always above the KNF
levels for calcium and phosphorus, most likely due to buying less
expensive meat meals with a higher levels of ground up bone tissue.
You have to wonder how a food can end up with 1.5% calcium when
chicken meat by itself is only 0.01% calcium. There is little calcium
in the grains nor in other ingredients. The vast majority comes from
ground up bones in meat meals - the cheaper the meat meals the higher
the percentage of ground up bone tissue. I have not looked at wellness
cat products in some time but just finished looking at their canine
products. I presume the results will be similar.

"Jon C" wrote in message . ..
"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
Adkin's diet for cats? Steve, you elluded to this. Now that the cat
is out of the bag, do you feel like sharing? What is the protein
source?

Protein... .......Can.. 52.8%......Dry... 52.0%
Fat... ..............Can.. 20.2%.....Dry... 22.0%
Carb... ...........Can...15.7%......Dry... 15.5%
Fiber... ...........Can.. ..6.0%......Dry... 5.5%
Calcium... ......Can.. .0.85%.....Dry... 0.89%
Phosphorus... Can...0.69%......Dry... 0.76%
Sodium... .......Can.. .0.36%......Dry... 0.36%
Potassium..... Can...0.77%.......Dry... 0.73%
Magnesium... .Can.. .0.065%...Dry...0.046%
Taurine ... ......Can.. .0.30%......Dry... 0.30%
Carnitine... ...Can.. 524.2.........Dry... 553.9 (ppm)


I don't get it... how is 15.5% DM "low carbs"? Wellness, among others, have
carb levels that are far lower..

Jon


Jon,
The objective of a metabolic ketosis generating food is to switch
the cat into a state of ketosis. Basically change the cat from
utilizing glucose over to ketosis. Both MD and DM dry products are
about 15% DMB carbohydrates. Both cause ketosis. Driving carbohydrates
any lower serves absolutely no positive gain. An analogy is shooting a
gopher. A 22 beullet through the head kills the gopher, a 12 guage
shotgun will do the trick too. Either way the gopher is dead. If you
can drive the cat into ketosis with 15% carbs, then it is possible to
pay attention to other issues, like insuring there isn't excess levels
of calcium and phosphorus in the diet. What happens when you go to
extremes like Fancy Feast with 0.0% carbs, is that you end up with
calcium at 2.3% and phosphorus at 1.8% both waaaay in excess of
maximum levels appropriate for any adult cat, even a kitten, and quite
dangerous for a cat over 12 years of age.
Most wellness products I have looked at are always above the KNF
levels for calcium and phosphorus, most likely due to buying less
expensive meat meals with a higher levels of ground up bone tissue.
You have to wonder how a food can end up with 1.5% calcium when
chicken meat by itself is only 0.01% calcium. There is little calcium
in the grains nor in other ingredients. The vast majority comes from
ground up bones in meat meals - the cheaper the meat meals the higher
the percentage of ground up bone tissue. I have not looked at wellness
cat products in some time but just finished looking at their canine
products. I presume the results will be similar.

(Steve Crane) wrote in
om:

What happens when you go to
extremes like Fancy Feast with 0.0% carbs, is that you end up with
calcium at 2.3% and phosphorus at 1.8% both waaaay in excess of
maximum levels appropriate for any adult cat, even a kitten, and quite
dangerous for a cat over 12 years of age.


Yikes. The feline IBD group has posters talking about how FF is a lower
grain food, and Sheba also. Yes, I look at ingredients now based on what my
cat can tolerate and the FF has wheat gluten, which I've read wheat is an
allergen the same as corn can be (allergen is the wrong word; harder to
digest may be the right words). I've actually tried switching my IBD cat to
FF because it looks a step up from the friskies canned that he'll eat
(won't touch any others). He's deteriorating quickly these days and I'm
tempted to just let him eat the dry he likes and not worry about canned any
more. If I try to switch him to a food that is good for his problem, he
will starve to death and I know this because I've been trying.

--
Cheryl

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
-Mario Andretti.

(Steve Crane) wrote in
om:

What happens when you go to
extremes like Fancy Feast with 0.0% carbs, is that you end up with
calcium at 2.3% and phosphorus at 1.8% both waaaay in excess of
maximum levels appropriate for any adult cat, even a kitten, and quite
dangerous for a cat over 12 years of age.


Yikes. The feline IBD group has posters talking about how FF is a lower
grain food, and Sheba also. Yes, I look at ingredients now based on what my
cat can tolerate and the FF has wheat gluten, which I've read wheat is an
allergen the same as corn can be (allergen is the wrong word; harder to
digest may be the right words). I've actually tried switching my IBD cat to
FF because it looks a step up from the friskies canned that he'll eat
(won't touch any others). He's deteriorating quickly these days and I'm
tempted to just let him eat the dry he likes and not worry about canned any
more. If I try to switch him to a food that is good for his problem, he
will starve to death and I know this because I've been trying.

--
Cheryl

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
-Mario Andretti.