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#1
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Vaccinations The great Debate
The breeder I got my kitten from had used Nosode on the kittens, yesterday Moshi had his 1st injection at 18 weeks he is an indoor only kitten, weighs 5.12. we left it longer under my vets advice as he had been unwell 3 times, twice before we got him, mouth ulcers, lost the fur and whiskers from his face, had antibiotics, cleared up came back more antibiotics, cleared up, then we got him and some of you may of remember he got a shock we think! with a very high temp of 105 and she wanted to make sure he was well before given him his jabs. Well in the UK most vets use live vaccines, but after a lot of research I decided I wanted killed virus's, I believe if you don't ask for killed they automatically give live/modified. He had them all inc feline Leukaemia... not Rabies as UK he was in good health, we got him home and he became really poorly, I rang the vets spoke to the receptionist (who did get the vet herself to call me back.) She explained that this sometimes happens in cats... but as long as he wasn't being sick, diarrhoea, then if so bring him in for an anti inflammatory jab, which he had before after shock. he was very lethargic, high temperature, got as high as 104 at one point, where ever you put him he didn't move :-( I was worried sick! gave him drips of water from syringe ever 30 mins and some kittyvite which I rubbed onto his gums. I checked the net and found this a common reaction..... during the night he started eating, playing and now he is in top form again. Thank god! I feel like I have been put through the mincer. I wanted people to know how vaccines can effect their cats... he has to go back in 3 weeks for the second lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have read some people space the injections out over a few days? any ideas? suggestions VERY welcome... thanks in advanced -- Luv'n'Stuff *~*SooZy*~* New Pictures added every few days http://community.webshots.com/user/ragdollcatsuk -- Luv'n'Stuff *~*SooZy*~* New Pictures added every few days http://community.webshots.com/user/ragdollcatsuk |
#2
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what are people's view here on boosters every year? they say the truth is no-one is sure low long immunity could last in an individual cat, for each individual disease, using any one kind of vaccine. Recommendations are made on minimum period of immunity, rather than a possibly maximum. -- Luv'n'Stuff *~*SooZy*~* New Pictures added every few days http://community.webshots.com/user/ragdollcatsuk |
#3
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what are people's view here on boosters every year? they say the truth is no-one is sure low long immunity could last in an individual cat, for each individual disease, using any one kind of vaccine. Recommendations are made on minimum period of immunity, rather than a possibly maximum. -- Luv'n'Stuff *~*SooZy*~* New Pictures added every few days http://community.webshots.com/user/ragdollcatsuk |
#5
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From: "~*SooZy*~"
what are people's view here on boosters every year? they say the truth is no-one is sure low long immunity could last in an individual cat, for each individual disease, using any one kind of vaccine. I believe it was Dr. Ron Schultz who said that immunity may last a lifetime but I'm sure further studies are being done. Here's an interesting article on the possible link between vaccines and kidney disease: "PARENTERAL ADMINISTRATION OF FVRCP VACCINES INDUCES ANTIBODIES AGAINST FELINE RENAL TISSUES. MR Lappin, WA Jensen, R Chandrashekar, and SD Kinney. From the Department of Clinical Sciences (Lappin), Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO and the Heska Corporation, Fort Collins CO (Jensen, Chandrashekar, and Kinney). Chronic renal failure is a common cause of death in cats. Lymphocytic/plasmacytic interstitial nephritis is common histopathologically, suggesting immune-mediated reactions may play a role. Feline herpesvirus 1, calicivirus, and panleukopenia virus for use in feline vaccines (FVRCP) are commonly grown in Crandall-Reese Feline Kidney (CRFK) cells. As a consequence, commercially available FVRCP vaccines contain CRFK proteins. The objectives of this study were to determine whether cats inoculated with FVRCP vaccines develop antibodies against CRFK cell extracts and if so, to determine if these antibodies reacted with extracts of feline renal tissue (FRT). Fourteen age-matched, mixed-sex, unvaccinated kittens were divided into seven pairs. To each pair of kittens, one of the following was administered: 10µg of CRFK protein SQ; 50µg of CRFK protein SQ; 50µg of CRFK protein plus an aluminum adjuvant SQ; a FVRCP vaccine for intranasal administration, or one of three FVRCP vaccines for SQ administration. The concentration of CRFK protein used was comparable to the range detected in the vaccines. Kittens receiving CRFK proteins were inoculated every two to four weeks for a total of eight times during the study period and kittens receiving vaccines were inoculated every three weeks for three inoculations. Serum samples were collected prior to inoculation and six months later. ELISAs to detect feline antibodies that bind to CRFK cell extracts or FRT extracts were optimized. All sera were assayed in both ELISAs and absorbance values calculated. An individual cat was considered positive for antibodies against either CRFK cell extracts or FRT extracts if the mean absorbance value of duplicate post-inoculation wells was greater than the mean plus three standard deviations of the 14 pre-inoculation sample absorbance values. None of the cats was positive for antibodies against CRFK or FRT extracts prior to inoculation. All six kittens inoculated with CRFK proteins were positive for anti-CRFK antibodies in the post-inoculation sample; five of these six kittens were positive for anti-FRT antibodies. Neither cat inoculated with the intranasal FVRCP vaccine was positive for anti-CRFK or anti-FRT antibodies post-inoculation. Of the cats inoculated with FVRCP vaccines SQ, five of six and four of six were positive for anti-CRFK antibodies or anti-FRT antibodies in the post-inoculation sample, respectively. Administration of FVRCP vaccines SQ to cats can induce antibody responses to CRFK proteins and feline renal tissues. Further research will be needed to define the role of these autoantibodies in the development of chronic renal failure in cats." Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#6
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Another article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/ query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=120090 59&dopt=Abstract 1: Vet Pathol 2002 Mar;39(2):216-27 "Cats differ from mink and ferrets in their response to commercial vaccines: a histologic comparison of early vaccine reactions. Carroll EE, Dubielzig RR, Schultz RD. Department of Pathobiological Sciences, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison, 53706, USA. eggerse@s... Early histologic changes in lesions at vaccine sites were compared in cats, mink, and ferrets. Twenty-four 4-month-old cats, 20 4-month-old mink, and 20 12-month-old ferrets were vaccinated with three rabies virus vaccines, two feline leukemia virus vaccines, alum adjuvant, and saline. Injection sites were excised at selected time points up to 21 days postvaccination. Histologic examination of the tissue revealed significant differences among the cats, mink, and ferrets in the local response to the commercial vaccines. When compared with ferrets and mink, cats had more lymphocytes in response to all three rabies vaccines. Production of fibroblasts, collagen, and macrophages differed among the three killed aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines in cats but did not differ significantly in mink or ferrets. Cats produced fewer binucleate cells than did mink or ferrets in response to the two adjuvanted leukemia virus vaccines. Differences seen in early tissue response of cats to commercial vaccines may be related to the increased predisposition of cats to vaccine-associated sarcomas. PMID: 12009059 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#7
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Another article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/ query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=120090 59&dopt=Abstract 1: Vet Pathol 2002 Mar;39(2):216-27 "Cats differ from mink and ferrets in their response to commercial vaccines: a histologic comparison of early vaccine reactions. Carroll EE, Dubielzig RR, Schultz RD. Department of Pathobiological Sciences, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison, 53706, USA. eggerse@s... Early histologic changes in lesions at vaccine sites were compared in cats, mink, and ferrets. Twenty-four 4-month-old cats, 20 4-month-old mink, and 20 12-month-old ferrets were vaccinated with three rabies virus vaccines, two feline leukemia virus vaccines, alum adjuvant, and saline. Injection sites were excised at selected time points up to 21 days postvaccination. Histologic examination of the tissue revealed significant differences among the cats, mink, and ferrets in the local response to the commercial vaccines. When compared with ferrets and mink, cats had more lymphocytes in response to all three rabies vaccines. Production of fibroblasts, collagen, and macrophages differed among the three killed aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines in cats but did not differ significantly in mink or ferrets. Cats produced fewer binucleate cells than did mink or ferrets in response to the two adjuvanted leukemia virus vaccines. Differences seen in early tissue response of cats to commercial vaccines may be related to the increased predisposition of cats to vaccine-associated sarcomas. PMID: 12009059 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
#8
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In article ,
"*~*SooZy*~*" wrote: The breeder I got my kitten from had used Nosode on the kittens, yesterday Moshi had his 1st injection at 18 weeks he is an indoor only kitten, weighs 5.12. we left it longer under my vets advice as he had been unwell 3 times, twice before we got him, mouth ulcers, lost the fur and whiskers from his face, had antibiotics, cleared up came back more antibiotics, cleared up, then we got him and some of you may of remember he got a shock we think! with a very high temp of 105 and she wanted to make sure he was well before given him his jabs. Well in the UK most vets use live vaccines, but after a lot of research I decided I wanted killed virus's, I believe if you don't ask for killed they automatically give live/modified. Killed virus vaccines have to have much stronger adjuvants, and despite that they don't induce as strong of immunity and have to be repeated in an initial series. One single modified-live distemper vaccine would undoubtedly have protected your cat for 7 years since it was given after he was old enough for his immune system to respond. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entre...ve&db=PubMed&l ist_uids=10328440&dopt=Abstract The only fear with modified-live vaccines is that they could revert to virulence. This risk is almost nonexistent with modern vaccines. He had them all inc feline Leukaemia... not Rabies as UK he was in good health, we got him home and he became really poorly, I rang the vets spoke to the receptionist (who did get the vet herself to call me back.) She explained that this sometimes happens in cats... but as long as he wasn't being sick, diarrhoea, then if so bring him in for an anti inflammatory jab, which he had before after shock. "Anti-inflammatory" is generally vet-speak for steroids which depress the immune system including the bits that create inflammation. So after challenging your cat's immune system with a vaccination, you promptly squelched his immune system with steroids! I'm confused. You have a holistically-oriented breeder who is using homeopathic nosodes in lieu of vaccination. Does your breeder have no other recommendations about vaccination and vaccination intervals, or better yet can't he/she recommend a holistic vet? From the description of all the ulcers and fevers this sounds like a cat that's going to require careful management for his whole life. If he were mine I wouldn't go about that management by beating into submission every symptom that crops up; rather I'd work with a holistic vet to get to the root of the problem. he was very lethargic, high temperature, got as high as 104 at one point, where ever you put him he didn't move :-( I was worried sick! gave him drips of water from syringe ever 30 mins and some kittyvite which I rubbed onto his gums. I checked the net and found this a common reaction..... during the night he started eating, playing and now he is in top form again. Thank god! I feel like I have been put through the mincer. I wanted people to know how vaccines can effect their cats... he has to go back in 3 weeks for the second lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have read some people space the injections out over a few days? any ideas? suggestions VERY welcome... thanks in advanced Immunologically speaking, you'll get the best result if you give individual disease vaccines at two week intervals. Good luck, I'm glad your kitten got through his first vaccine reaction alright. I think I've heard the second is generally much worse once the system is sensitized. -Alison in OH |
#9
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In article ,
"*~*SooZy*~*" wrote: The breeder I got my kitten from had used Nosode on the kittens, yesterday Moshi had his 1st injection at 18 weeks he is an indoor only kitten, weighs 5.12. we left it longer under my vets advice as he had been unwell 3 times, twice before we got him, mouth ulcers, lost the fur and whiskers from his face, had antibiotics, cleared up came back more antibiotics, cleared up, then we got him and some of you may of remember he got a shock we think! with a very high temp of 105 and she wanted to make sure he was well before given him his jabs. Well in the UK most vets use live vaccines, but after a lot of research I decided I wanted killed virus's, I believe if you don't ask for killed they automatically give live/modified. Killed virus vaccines have to have much stronger adjuvants, and despite that they don't induce as strong of immunity and have to be repeated in an initial series. One single modified-live distemper vaccine would undoubtedly have protected your cat for 7 years since it was given after he was old enough for his immune system to respond. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entre...ve&db=PubMed&l ist_uids=10328440&dopt=Abstract The only fear with modified-live vaccines is that they could revert to virulence. This risk is almost nonexistent with modern vaccines. He had them all inc feline Leukaemia... not Rabies as UK he was in good health, we got him home and he became really poorly, I rang the vets spoke to the receptionist (who did get the vet herself to call me back.) She explained that this sometimes happens in cats... but as long as he wasn't being sick, diarrhoea, then if so bring him in for an anti inflammatory jab, which he had before after shock. "Anti-inflammatory" is generally vet-speak for steroids which depress the immune system including the bits that create inflammation. So after challenging your cat's immune system with a vaccination, you promptly squelched his immune system with steroids! I'm confused. You have a holistically-oriented breeder who is using homeopathic nosodes in lieu of vaccination. Does your breeder have no other recommendations about vaccination and vaccination intervals, or better yet can't he/she recommend a holistic vet? From the description of all the ulcers and fevers this sounds like a cat that's going to require careful management for his whole life. If he were mine I wouldn't go about that management by beating into submission every symptom that crops up; rather I'd work with a holistic vet to get to the root of the problem. he was very lethargic, high temperature, got as high as 104 at one point, where ever you put him he didn't move :-( I was worried sick! gave him drips of water from syringe ever 30 mins and some kittyvite which I rubbed onto his gums. I checked the net and found this a common reaction..... during the night he started eating, playing and now he is in top form again. Thank god! I feel like I have been put through the mincer. I wanted people to know how vaccines can effect their cats... he has to go back in 3 weeks for the second lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have read some people space the injections out over a few days? any ideas? suggestions VERY welcome... thanks in advanced Immunologically speaking, you'll get the best result if you give individual disease vaccines at two week intervals. Good luck, I'm glad your kitten got through his first vaccine reaction alright. I think I've heard the second is generally much worse once the system is sensitized. -Alison in OH |
#10
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In article ,
enlightened us with... He had them all inc feline Leukaemia... That is overdoing it. His little immune system has to fight over everything at once. Most vaccines are not needed and some are actually not recommended. Many vaccines do not even prevent the cat from getting sick - they just lessen the severity. http://critterfixer.com/pages/feline.asp http://critterfixer.com/pages/v7_vac...mmend_cats.htm http://www.avma.org/vafstf/rbbroch.asp ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit. Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- |
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