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Cats and grains



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 17th 06, 07:53 AM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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Default Cats and grains

http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/grains.php

Grains have been a major mainstay for humans, and the agriculture as
well as use of grain in our diet, providing us with bread - a dense
source of energy and nutrients - have propelled human civilization
forward in its evolution. But what about grains in the meal plan of the
cat? Cats are domesticated animals, heavily influenced by human
society. They share our lives, our house, and - yes - our food.
Nonetheless, the cat is a cat. In a very distant past we may indeed
share a common ancestor as mammals, but otherwise the cat's physiology
is as much an extreme when compared to ours, as day is to night. If we
want to understand the dietary needs of cats, we must look at cats as
they live in the wild, and not at how they live as part of human
civilization, and thusly the foods they adapted to eat.

Grain is man made - grass seeds, enhanced in size through selective
breeding. Before humans discontinued their nomadic lifestyle and
settled as farmers, there was no grain. There where only seeds -
available to wildlife for the take merely seasonal. Advocates of the
use of grain in cat foods argue, that these foods would naturally be
part of the cat's diet as the stomach content of their prey - rodents
and birds. Yet, these species too, where first introduced to grain
merely ten thousand years ago, and that only in the presence of far
apart human settlements. A truly natural diet for rodents and birds is
not based on grains, but on insects and fruits, as well as greens for
rodents. Merely seasonal do these animals fed on seeds, and a large
proportion of those would be made up of oily seeds and nuts, rather
then carbohydrate based grass seeds. The relation of the stomach
content, for example of a mouse, is only 5% - 9% of the total weight of
the animal, therefore not supplying the cat, at any time, with more
then that as grain in her diet.

Now, at the dawn of mankind, grain was not a natural food for humans
either, but we have perfectly adapted to it as a mainstay. Could the
cat adapt? Yes and no. Simple differences between people as omnivores
and cats as true carnivores make it impossible for the cat to break
down nearly any type of plant matter. Digestion of carbohydrate and
cellulose containing plant matter begins in the mouth. The substances
are ground up by our chewing motion and fortified with enzymes, in
order to break them down manually as well as chemically. The cat, in
turn, possesses no molars, nor the ability to chew or grind foods.
Also, the cat's body does not produce the enzymes necessary for the
break down of plant cellulose. The cat's digestive tract is, in
relation to that of a human, much shorter and designed to deal with
highly digestible foods of animal source; any ingested plant matter is
normally passed "unharmed". The cat's digestive juices may be potent,
but it is digestion time that breaks down plant matter. The cat passes
food much too quickly from stomach to the small intestine and then to
the colon, for any digestion of plant matter to happen.

The cat is a very intelligent being, and she has emotionally adapted to
a live among humans. Despite her extreme physical restrictions as true
carnivore, the cat has learned to eat other, more human like foods
besides her usual all prey regiment. In fact, this widened palate
enables cats to live in colonies with their own kind - something never
observed among their ancestors: the African Wild Cat. Because the
domestic cat has adapted to eat other things, such as fatty or protein
based human discards, and is not solely dependant on prey availability,
territorial stress is greatly reduced - opening channels for
communication.

The adaptation to a greater variety of food sources did not leave the
cat's physiology completely unchanged. In the cats native North African
range, the now wide spread domesticated cat is a threat to the
existence of her wild cat ancestor. Domestic stock frequently
hybridizes with wild cats, leading to a rapit vanishing of pure wild
cats. Scientists hope to preserve the species through population
control of the domestic stock, but how does one distinguish between
these two very similar looking species in order to catalogue any data
or observations? As it turns out, the domestic cat's intestines are a
few centimeters longer then those of a true wild cat, a feature which
is passed on to hybrid offspring, clearly distinguishing true wild cats
from those influenced by human civilisation.

If the cat lacks the ability to digest plant matter, could grains be
cooked as a means of "pre digesting" them? Yes, that does work indeed.
The cat's food can thusly be fortified with carbohydrates which is
converted by the cat's liver to glucose as a source of energy. The
problem is, that the cat converts a large portion of dietary protein
(glycogenic amino acids) to glucose for energy, and any excess of
glucose from carbohydrate source is stored as body fat!
The question should not be: if or if not the cat can digest grains, but
rather if there is any benefit for the cat, or if in fact, it could be
harmful.

Commercial pet food manufactures rely heavily on the use of grains to
manufacture their products. However, the grains are not added because
they hold much nutritional value, but because they lower the cost of
the product.

The Cornell Book of Cats: "Although carbohydrates make up about 40% of
commercial dry cat foods, they are not a dietary necessity for the cat.
In fact, cats can be maintained on carbohydrate free diets in which
energy is derived exclusively from non carbohydrate sources.
Carbohydrates are included as a source of energy and to provide
structure for dry cat food."

The Merk Veterinary Manual: "Carbohydrates are a less expensive source
of energy than fat or protein.(...) In cats, carbohydrates are
apparently not essential in the diet when ample protein and fats supply
glycogenic amino acids and glycerol.(...) In both dogs and cats, if
starches are not cooked, they will be poorly digested and may result in
flatulence or diarrhoea."

The Well Cat Book: "Carbohydrates (sugars, starches, and cellulose) are
not required by cats in their diet. The digestible carbohydrates (sugar
and starch), however, can be used as energy source, providing 3.5
calories for each gram consumed. Cooking and/or fine grinding of
carbohydrate sources (e.g. cereal grains, potatoes, vegetables) greatly
improves their utilization and allows pet food manufacturers to
formulate dry and semimoist foods based on these plant products that
are not a major part of any cat's natural diet."

Carbohydrates are not necessary in the cat's diet. If large amounts of
grains are included in the diet, more essential nutrients are displaced
by this cheap source of unnecessary calories. Intake of carbohydrates
is the number one cause of obesity in cats. It causes indigestion,
regurgitation, or diarrhoea, and Feline Future has traced grains and
vegetables in cat foods as an overlooked cause of self induced
bilateral alopecia (hair loss) in cats. Large amounts of sugars (and
any amount of sugar is above the norm for cats) causes the endorcine
system to overwork and malfunction, predisposing cats to the risk of
pancreatitis and diabetes.

(END
  #2  
Old May 17th 06, 01:02 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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Default Cats and grains

I think this all can be boiled down to a simple principle -- and that
is this: Think about what the animal would eat in the wild and try not
to stray from it. It's best not to disturb what God set in motion.

Stan

www.Kitten-Pictures.com
The most adorable Kitten Pictures on the net!

  #3  
Old May 17th 06, 01:36 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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Default Cats and grains

"stan beck" wrote in message
I think this all can be boiled down to a simple principle -- and that
is this: Think about what the animal would eat in the wild and try not
to stray from it. It's best not to disturb what God set in motion.


Sorry, can't agree with that sentiment at all. There's been all sorts of
advances in health science that have improved upon what god originally set
in motion. Even something as simple as antibiotics which keeps people alive
today who would have died less than 100 years ago. The same goes for the
growing of food and the ability to grow it in much larger quantities than a
few years back. In the wild, animals would eat dirty rotten flesh and be
exposed to all sorts of contagions (like rabies) that we presently immunize
against.

So no, wild animal type of diet is definitely *not* a preferred choice for
your pet. Not if you want your pets to live longer, healthier lives.


  #4  
Old May 17th 06, 01:39 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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Default Cats and grains

It's best not to disturb what God set in motion.
If God set evolution/natural selection in motion, then I agree.

  #5  
Old May 17th 06, 02:57 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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Default Cats and grains


"Upscale" wrote in message
news:c52f2$446b18ce$cef88bc5$
Sorry, can't agree with that sentiment at all. There's been all sorts of
advances in health science that have improved upon what god originally set
in motion. Even something as simple as antibiotics which keeps people
alive
today who would have died less than 100 years ago. The same goes for the
growing of food and the ability to grow it in much larger quantities than
a
few years back. In the wild, animals would eat dirty rotten flesh and be
exposed to all sorts of contagions (like rabies) that we presently
immunize
against.



I think you are nitpicking and missing the point.

Cats have evolved as obligate carnivores- animals who prey upon and eat
other animals. Prey animals consisting of meat, bone, organs, and
predigested vegetable matter in the stomach.
So, to me, feeding a cat a diet consisting of rice, corn, or wheat is in
direct opposition to what their preferred and necessary diet is.

No one is suggesting that you feed your cats rotten meat or disease riddled
animals.


So no, wild animal type of diet is definitely *not* a preferred choice for
your pet. Not if you want your pets to live longer, healthier lives.


There are many, many of us feeding a clean raw diet that would beg to
differ. Raw fed cats are some of the healthiest animals out there with
naturally strong immune systems, naturally clean teeth, and a gleaming non
shedding coat.

It is of course up to you how to nourish the animals in your care, but to
suggest that we not try and cleanly duplicate a cats natural diet is, to me
anyway, absurd.


--
Toni
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com


  #6  
Old May 17th 06, 03:33 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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Default Cats and grains

I think you are nitpicking and missing the point.

Cats have evolved as obligate carnivores- animals who prey upon and eat
other animals. Prey animals consisting of meat, bone, organs, and
predigested vegetable matter in the stomach.
So, to me, feeding a cat a diet consisting of rice, corn, or wheat is in
direct opposition to what their preferred and necessary diet is.


You're trying to put words in my mouth. I didn't say feed them rice and
corn. What I suggested is that our present day sciences have developed food
that is superior for our pets than what they'd get from a pure meat diet
that you're suggesting. Stan said to feed a pet what it would get in the
wild. In the wild, an animal will eat most any type of food that might
provide sustenance.

In addition, the "by-products" you *might* see on a can of pet food consist
of those meat, bone and other matter that you've listed above. Man used to
be a carnivore, now he's not for the most part. People live longer than they
ever did before. Pets like cats and dogs are similarly living longer than
they ever did before. You can thank present day science for that. It's your
option what you feed your pet, that's your business. I prefer to side with
scientific study that tells me what is good for my cat. Sorry, but that's
not a purely natural diet as far as I'm concerned.

Unless Stan is talking about how man has evolved and what he has invented
from the evolvement of his intellect, then to say leave things as God set
them in motion is completely unrealistic.


  #7  
Old May 17th 06, 04:25 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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Default Cats and grains


"Upscale" wrote in message
...

You're trying to put words in my mouth. I didn't say feed them rice and
corn. What I suggested is that our present day sciences have developed
food
that is superior for our pets than what they'd get from a pure meat diet
that you're suggesting.



I disagree. Processed pet foods have done more to harm animals over the last
60 or so years they have been available. Much is lost in the manufacturing
process, and sprayed on substitutes are inferior to real whole food. Also
grains typically represent far too high a percentage of processed foods
manufactured for cats, the major exception being the recently introduced
Innova EVO.



In addition, the "by-products" you *might* see on a can of pet food
consist
of those meat, bone and other matter that you've listed above. Man used to
be a carnivore, now he's not for the most part.



Please- when was man ever a carnivore? We have been omnivores for as long as
we have existed. A simple look at any species teeth and digestive system
will tell you what they need to eat. Man has molars for grinding grains and
vegetables, and a longer intestinal tract to digest them. Cats have canines
for ripping and tearing meat and a shorter intestinal tract and more
concentrated stomach acids as well. It is basic evolution.


People live longer than they
ever did before. Pets like cats and dogs are similarly living longer than
they ever did before. You can thank present day science for that.



No, you can thak modern medicine and the fact that domesticated animals are
far removed from the predators, disease, and accidental deaths prevalent in
wild populations. Processed foods over the last several decades are have
contributed to the loss of health of all of us due to immune disorders,
allergies, diabetes, heart disease, etc., etc., etc.


It's your
option what you feed your pet, that's your business. I prefer to side with
scientific study that tells me what is good for my cat. Sorry, but that's
not a purely natural diet as far as I'm concerned.



Those scientific studies you are so high on were funded by pet food
manufacturers.


Unless Stan is talking about how man has evolved and what he has invented
from the evolvement of his intellect, then to say leave things as God set
them in motion is completely unrealistic.




IMO nature always knows best, and will always win.


--
Toni
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com


  #8  
Old May 17th 06, 04:42 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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Default Cats and grains

"Toni" wrote in message
wild populations. Processed foods over the last several decades are have
contributed to the loss of health of all of us due to immune disorders,
allergies, diabetes, heart disease, etc., etc., etc.


Not wanting to make this a protracted discussion, I agree that many
processed foods have not been the best option for humans. However, I
disagree on what causes the conditions that you've listed above. The biggest
reason for them being caused is man's sedentary lifestyle. The lack of
exercise and the little effort needed to obtain food and shelter has by far
and away been the major cause for those conditions.

If everybody who subsisted solely on Big Macs balanced those processed foods
with adequate exercise, most of those diseases and medical problems you've
listed wouldn't exist. It's not that the processed foods exist, it's that
man fails to regulate his intake of them.

That's all I've got to say.


  #9  
Old May 17th 06, 05:35 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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"Toni" wrote in message
. ..

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

You're trying to put words in my mouth. I didn't say feed them rice and
corn. What I suggested is that our present day sciences have developed
food
that is superior for our pets than what they'd get from a pure meat diet
that you're suggesting.



I disagree. Processed pet foods have done more to harm animals over the
last 60 or so years they have been available. Much is lost in the
manufacturing process, and sprayed on substitutes are inferior to real
whole food. Also


This is just not true. Pets used to live only 5 or 6 years when I was a
child. The manufactured food available then was nutritionally unsound and
basically contained only food scraps and "left-overs" (thinks pig hooves and
gristle) from processed human food. Other than that pets were given table
scraps (which, while good for humans was not good for pets' nutritional
needs)

*MILLIONS* of dollars have been spent over the years by pet food
manufacturers to improve the quality of pet food and as a result pets are
living much longer, healthier lives.

People are always talking about "the good old days", but take it from us
geezers who are older than dirt, "the good old days" weren't nearly as good
as today!

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/



  #10  
Old May 17th 06, 07:11 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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Default Cats and grains


"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

Toni" wrote in message
. ..



I disagree. Processed pet foods have done more to harm animals over the
last 60 or so years they have been available. Much is lost in the
manufacturing process, and sprayed on substitutes are inferior to real
whole food. Also



This is just not true. Pets used to live only 5 or 6 years when I was a
child. The manufactured food available then was nutritionally unsound and
basically contained only food scraps and "left-overs" (thinks pig hooves
and gristle) from processed human food. Other than that pets were given
table scraps (which, while good for humans was not good for pets'
nutritional needs)

*MILLIONS* of dollars have been spent over the years by pet food
manufacturers to improve the quality of pet food and as a result pets are
living much longer, healthier lives.



Is todays processed food better than that initially introduced after WWll?
Of course it is.

Now ask me if I think that todays processed food is better than a diet of
fresh whole foods?
No.
If it was we'd all be eating Total cereal exclusively.

Do you think that a human would be as healthy eating Total cereal
exclusively as he would be eating fresh, whole foods?


People are always talking about "the good old days", but take it from us
geezers who are older than dirt, "the good old days" weren't nearly as
good as today!



I'll see your 'geezer' and raise you 10 years.
g


--
Toni (older than dirt myself)
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com


 




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