Feline Bladder Inflamation

On Apr 8, 5:47�pm, "Phil P." wrote:
"Rene S." wrote in message

...

Using the glucosamine certainly won't hurt him and it could very well
help. There is also another supplement called curcumin

Curcumin contains phenols. Phenols are toxic to cats. Did you know that?
You might want to look at the ingredients before recommending a product.

Phil, if you have any links that specifically say curcumin is toxic to
cats by all means please post them as I would be interested to see
them and share them. I have seen several supplements specifically for
dogs and cats online that contain curcumin. My friend did a lot of
research on this and one source that has recommended the use of
curcumin in cats is Dr. Susan Wynn. Here is her profile:

Susan G. Wynn, DVM is the Founder of the Veterinary Botanical Medical
Association and serves on the advisory boards of the Veterinary
Research Council, Veterinary Institute of Integrative Medicine and the
National Animal Supplement Council. She is, as of 2006, the President-
elect of the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association, is
active with 2 committees in the Georgia Veterinary Medical
Association, and is a registered herbalist with the American Herbalist
Guild. Dr. Wynn is a consultant for the Veterinary Information Network
and the American Veterinary Medical Association's Network of Animal
Health.

She is an internationally respected speaker in holistic veterinary
medicine, and is an adjunct faculty member with the University of
Georgia's College of Veterinary Medicine. She is a two-time grant
review panelist for the National Institutes of Health. Dr. Wynn has
had papers published in scientific and professional journals, and has
authored or co-authored 4 professional level textbooks, including
Veterinary Herbal Medicine, Manual of Natural Veterinary Medicine:
Science and Tradition, Emerging Therapies: Herbal and Natural Medicine
for Small Animals, and Complementary and Alternative Veterinary
Medicine: Principles and Practice.

"mc" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 6:47 pm, "Phil P." wrote:



Hi Phil, thanks for the feedback. I just posted another post before I
saw your two posts here...

What about the Wellness?


Wellness uses garlic in most of their diets. That doesn't seem to bother the
diehard Wellness fans. Wellness also doesn't make their own food. So
quality control is, at the very least, difficult or nonexistant. That
doesn't seem to bother the diehard Wellness fans either. Wellness is made by
a generic petfood manufacturer- Menu Foods. I'm sure we all heard of Menu
Foods and their lack of quality control.

I don't trust Wellness- and I never will. They lied to me several times
about making their own food and their ingredients.

Sorry for all the questions. I really appreciate the feedback ;-)

Thanks,
Melissa

"mc" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 9:16 am, "Rene S." wrote:
I am wondering if there are others here who know more about



Well, now here is another question. I am trying to do a bit of
research here as well.

I brought Max home with the cosequin today and instructions to feed
wet food (according to my husband) which I have been doing. They were
specific about feeding him nothing but a food specifically formulated
for urinary tracts.

According to the urinalysis, Maxes urine was not at the PH level they
would like to see. So now what? I have been feeding nothing but
Wellness since all this has come up.

And I will say this: When Max urinates it is a fountain. He urinates
more than I do!! LOL chuckle I can never believe how much urine is
in the litter box these days.

Now, it is true that my vets office may not be aware of Wellness, but
I thought it was specifically formulated for urinary tracts - the cans
don't say so but the website makes it sound like as a part of the
"natural" ingredients, they are specifically formulated for urinary
tract issues. So, according to the Wellness website, it sounds to me
like Wellness is naturally being formulated with urinary tract issues
in mind.

No no no! Wellness's claim regarding "proper urinary tract function".only
refers to a low magnesium content- which is only a small part of the urinary
tract picture. They can't make *any* claims that their diets will produce a
specific urine pH range without clinical studies to back them up-- and they
don't have any.

"Rene S." wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 5:47?pm, "Phil P." wrote:
"Rene S." wrote in message

...

Using the glucosamine certainly won't hurt him and it could very well
help. There is also another supplement called curcumin

Curcumin contains phenols. Phenols are toxic to cats. Did you know that?
You might want to look at the ingredients before recommending a product.

Phil, if you have any links that specifically say curcumin is toxic to
cats by all means please post them as I would be interested to see
them and share them.

I'd be happy to. But first I want to establish the fact that curcumin
indeed contains phenols. And phenols are toxic to cats- especially when
ingested chronically.

"2744. Curcumin.
(EE)-1,7-Bis(4-hydroxy-3-methoxyphenyl)-1,6*heptadiene-3,5-dione, turmeric
yellow; diferuloylmethane; C.I. 75300; C.I. Natural Yellow 3. C21H2006; mol
wt 368.39." The Merck Index, 12th ed, p.450

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turmeric#Chemistry

"Turmeric contains up to 5% essential oils and up to 3% curcumin, a
polyphenol."

"Toxicity and Risk Factors. Phenol toxicosis produces identical symptoms in
all animal species. All animals develop phenol toxicosis at about the same
magnitude, except cats, which are more sensitive because of their limited
glucuronide transferase activity." Clinical Veterinary Toxicology, p. 165

"Mechanism of action. Phenols are absorbed rapidly from the GI tract and
percutaneously. Cats, certain reptiles, and birds are highly sensitive."
Small Animal Toxicology and Poisoning, p. 265

"The oral LD5o of phenol in dogs is estimated to be 0.5 gm/ kg. Cats are
considerably more sensitive because of their limited glucuronide transferase
activity." Kirk's Current Veterinary Therapy, vol XIII, p. 265

Susceptibility of cats to phenol.
J Chronic Dis. 1961 Feb 15;138:197-9.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8515551

http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=2243


My friend did a lot of
research on this

Aparrently, she didn't do enough.

and one source that has recommended the use of
curcumin in cats is Dr. Susan Wynn. Here is her profile:

Like I say- credentials don't always guarantee credibility- one can exist
without the other.

"Phil P." wrote in message
newsGVKj.916$PJ3.802@trndny02...

"Rene S." wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 5:47?pm, "Phil P." wrote:
"Rene S." wrote in message


...

Using the glucosamine certainly won't hurt him and it could very well
help. There is also another supplement called curcumin

Curcumin contains phenols. Phenols are toxic to cats. Did you know that?
You might want to look at the ingredients before recommending a product.

Phil, if you have any links that specifically say curcumin is toxic to
cats by all means please post them as I would be interested to see
them and share them.

I'd be happy to. But first I want to establish the fact that curcumin
indeed contains phenols. And phenols are toxic to cats- especially when
ingested chronically.

"2744. Curcumin.
(EE)-1,7-Bis(4-hydroxy-3-methoxyphenyl)-1,6*heptadiene-3,5-dione, turmeric
yellow; diferuloylmethane; C.I. 75300; C.I. Natural Yellow 3. C21H2006;
mol
wt 368.39." The Merck Index, 12th ed, p.450

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turmeric#Chemistry

"Turmeric contains up to 5% essential oils and up to 3% curcumin, a
polyphenol."

"Toxicity and Risk Factors. Phenol toxicosis produces identical symptoms
in
all animal species. All animals develop phenol toxicosis at about the same
magnitude, except cats, which are more sensitive because of their limited
glucuronide transferase activity." Clinical Veterinary Toxicology, p. 165

"Mechanism of action. Phenols are absorbed rapidly from the GI tract and
percutaneously. Cats, certain reptiles, and birds are highly sensitive."
Small Animal Toxicology and Poisoning, p. 265

"The oral LD5o of phenol in dogs is estimated to be 0.5 gm/ kg. Cats are
considerably more sensitive because of their limited glucuronide
transferase
activity." Kirk's Current Veterinary Therapy, vol XIII, p. 265

Susceptibility of cats to phenol.
J Chronic Dis. 1961 Feb 15;138:197-9.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8515551

http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=2243


My friend did a lot of
research on this

Aparrently, she didn't do enough.

and one source that has recommended the use of
curcumin in cats is Dr. Susan Wynn. Here is her profile:

Like I say- credentials don't always guarantee credibility- one can exist
without the other.


Oops, I forgot one:

"The phenol LD50 in the dog is approximately 0.5 g/kg body weight.
Limitations in glucuronide transferase activity in the cat make this species
more susceptible to intoxication."
http://www.vetmedtext.com/content/default.cfm

Oops, I forgot one:

"The phenol LD50 in the dog is approximately 0.5 g/kg body weight.
Limitations in glucuronide transferase activity in the cat make this species
more susceptible to intoxication."http://www.vetmedtext.com/content/default.cfm


I am still waiting for you to post a link saying, *specifically*, that
curcumin is toxic to cats. I am unable to find anything that says
this. The link you posted clearly stated that curcumin is a
polyphenol. According to the definitions I found (of which there are
many,) phenols and polyphenols are two entirely different things.
*
Polyphenol: A kind of chemical that (at least in theory) may protect
against some common health problems and possibly certain effects of
aging.
Polyphenols act as antioxidants. They protect cells and body chemicals
against damage caused by free radicals, reactive atoms that contribute
to tissue damage in the body. For example, when low-density
lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol is oxidized, it can become glued to
arteries and cause coronary heart disease.
Polyphenols can also block the action of enzymes that cancers need for
growth and they can deactivate substances that promote the growth of
cancers. The polyphenol most strongly associated with cancer
prevention is epigallocatechin-3-gallate, or EGCG.
All tea contains polyphenols. Teas and polyphenols isolated from tea
have been shown in the laboratory to act as scavengers of oxygen and
nitrogen-free radicals, protecting the fatty membranes of cells,
proteins and DNA. However, the results of human studies of tea and
polyphenols to date (2001) have been inconsistent and have yet to
prove anything one way or the other as regards the value of
polyphenols.
**
Phenol: 1. A poisonous corrosive compound obtained by the distillation
of coal tar that, in dilute solution, is an antimicrobial agent. Also
called carbolic acid.

On Apr 9, 8:45*am, "Rene S." wrote:
Oops, I forgot one:

"The phenol LD50 in the dog is approximately 0.5 g/kg body weight.
Limitations in glucuronide transferase activity in the cat make this species
more susceptible to intoxication."http://www.vetmedtext.com/content/default.cfm

I am still waiting for you to post a link saying, *specifically*, that
curcumin is toxic to cats. I am unable to find anything that says
this. The link you posted clearly stated that curcumin is a
polyphenol. According to the definitions I found (of which there are
many,) phenols and polyphenols are two entirely different things.

I found the following recommendations for dosing cats and dogs from
this link:
http://thorne.dyrectmedia.com/media...._monograph.pdf


Safety and Dosage

No significant toxicity has been reported following either acute or
chronic administration of
turmeric extracts at standard doses. At very high doses (100 mg/kg
body weight), curcumin may be
ulcerogenic in animals, as evidenced by one rat study.34 Because of
its numerous protective benefits,
regular addition of turmeric to animal feed may be beneficial. For a
specific therapeutic effect, the
typical canine dosage of curcumin is 50-250 mg three times daily,
depending on the size of the animal.
36 If using whole turmeric, the average canine dosage is one-half
teaspoon twice daily. Feline
dosages are in the range of 50-100 mg daily of curcumin and
approximately one-quarter teaspoon
daily if using whole turmeric. Equine dosages of curcumin are much
higher due to the size of the
animal, and range between 1,200 and 2,400 mg daily. Curcumin and
turmeric research in these animals
is limited and the dosages stated above are estimates only.

I also found this:

In a recent study, cats exposed to myocardial ischemia-reduced blood
flow in the heart tissues, a condition resulting from the consequences
of a heart attack, were evaluated using curcumin and quinidine, a
standard antiarrhythmic drug. Both of the substances protected the
animals against a decrease in heart rate and blood pressure following
restricted blood flow to the heart."


I refuse to believe they are using a compound to potentially help cats
that would be toxic to them, and I would tend to believe someone with
the plethora of impressive credentials Dr. Wynn has over some dude on
the internet.

Wellness uses garlic in most of their diets. That doesn't seem to bother the
diehard Wellness fans. *Wellness also doesn't make their own food. So
quality control is, at the very least, difficult or nonexistant. That
doesn't seem to bother the diehard Wellness fans either. Wellness is made by
a generic petfood manufacturer- Menu Foods. *I'm sure we all heard of Menu
Foods and their lack of quality control.

I don't trust Wellness- and I never will. They lied to me several times
about making their own food and their ingredients.

Phil,
This is not true. I did a quick search of the ingredient lists of the
Wellness dry and canned foods for cats and garlic is not listed.
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_w...can_index.html
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_w...dry_index.html

"Rene S." wrote in message
...
Wellness uses garlic in most of their diets. That doesn't seem to bother
the
diehard Wellness fans. Wellness also doesn't make their own food. So
quality control is, at the very least, difficult or nonexistant. That
doesn't seem to bother the diehard Wellness fans either. Wellness is made
by
a generic petfood manufacturer- Menu Foods. I'm sure we all heard of Menu
Foods and their lack of quality control.

I don't trust Wellness- and I never will. They lied to me several times
about making their own food and their ingredients.

Phil,
This is not true. I did a quick search of the ingredient lists of the
Wellness dry and canned foods for cats and garlic is not listed.
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_w...can_index.html
..http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_w...dry_index.html


Oh yes it certainly is true! Try reading the label on the can.....

http://maxshouse.com/wellnesschickenlable.jpg

Wellness probably took garlic off the ingredients list on their website
because they probably received numerous emails from people who are
knowledgeable about feline nutrition, but left in the food because they know
most people don't read the labels.

I told you Wellness is sleazy company. Still trust them?

"Rene S." wrote in message
...

Oops, I forgot one:

"The phenol LD50 in the dog is approximately 0.5 g/kg body weight.
Limitations in glucuronide transferase activity in the cat make this
species
more susceptible to
intoxication."http://www.vetmedtext.com/content/default.cfm


I am still waiting for you to post a link saying, *specifically*, that
curcumin is toxic to cats.

Are you serious!!! lol

I've already established the fact that curcumin indeed contains phenols. And
phenols are toxic to cats- especially when
ingested chronically.

The link you posted clearly stated that curcumin is a
polyphenol. According to the definitions I found (of which there are
many,) phenols and polyphenols are two entirely different things.


Did you not read the Merck chemical analysis of Curcumin???.

"2744. Curcumin.
(EE)-1,7-Bis(4-hydroxy-3-methoxyphenyl)-1,6*heptadiene-3,5-dione, turmeric
yellow; diferuloylmethane; C.I. 75300; C.I. Natural Yellow 3. C21H2006; mol
wt 368.39." The Merck Index, 12th ed, p.450