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#11
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When do you "call it a day"?
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#12
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When do you "call it a day"?
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#13
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When do you "call it a day"?
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#14
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When do you "call it a day"?
On Apr 21, 5:25*am, Eddy
wrote: wrote: I hear you. Listen, this may be off the wall but I take many heart related Rx meds for not CHF but relate stuff, w/o going into detail. One of them *is* Plavix and I get it through my HMO cheaper than the Canadian quote given here. The operative word here is "through your HMO." A cat is not covered under an HMO. Any medications that someone buys for animals must be paid for in cash, out of pocket. Sure your HMO copay on Plavix is cheaper than the Canadian cash price for clopidogrel (generic Plavix), but if someone is paying full price, cash out of pocket, the Canadian price for the generic is much cheaper than anything available anywhere in the USA. The generic clopidogrel (which is not available in the USA) is always going to be cheaper than the brand-name Plavix. The clopidogrel that I buy from Canada is produced in a well-known and well-respected pharmaceutical company in India. In the USA, the drug company that manufactures the brand-name drug Plavix has an exclusive contract, so the generic version is not yet available in the USA (and probably won't be for years to come). As an aside, just in general, any medication that a person needs to pay for with cash (i.e. doesn't have insurance) for either an animal or even for a person is often cheaper from Canada. Only Phil P. would know, as superinformed non-vet the deep answer to this next I say: maybe he'll favor us with an opinion....I do take those drugs and have regular, multiple blood tests re my condition and the efficacy of the drugs to date. I have *very few* xrays (overpriced in general in my hoomin-judgement in vets offices unless for foreign body location or trauma 411....they can and do reveal fluid retention from CHF in hoomins....but lab wrk and an exam do the same much cheaper. Of course i base the above on all I know about *human* CHF not cats. Thanks, Hopitus. *Yes, we can't afford further thoracentesis operations or X-rays under general anaesthetic etc., and, anyway, we don't think that the poor cat itself can withstand such trauma again. *So it is up to whatever drugs can do "the trick". *We are prepared to pay for them (and for the many tins of tuna and natural yoghourt necessary to get all these pills down the cat's throat!). * To cite myself from a post I wrote last year: Ask your vet for a "piller." This is a plastic stick with a rubber cap at one end and a plunger at the other. You insert the pill into the endcap, open the cat's mouth with your fingers, put the pill-end of the piller to the back of the cat's mouth/throat and push the plunger. Voila! Entire operation completed in about three seconds or less, and you know the cat got the full dose and swallowed it. And here's another tip: If you have multiple pills to give the cat, get some clear, empty gelatin capsules and put the pills in there. The capsules come in multiple sizes, and if the pills are small enough, several pills or pieces of pills can fit in one capsule. I manage to fit four pills/pieces of pills into one gelatin capsule (the smallest size). So from my cat's perspective, he's getting one pill rather than four. ... I never have to wonder if he got the medicine or if it's still hiding somewhere in his food dish. And the piller is long enough that I can avoid getting scratched or bitten because once I put the piller in his mouth, I can take my hands away. The piller costs about $5. You have to be sure to get the tip of the piller (the endcap holds the pill) all the way to the back of the cat's throat (over the back of the tongue). If you don't get it back far enough, the cat will indeed spit it out. What I do is hold my cat securely on my lap, facing away from me. With my left hand (I'm right handed), I come around from the left side and use my thumb and forefinger to open his mouth (I put my fingers in the corners of his mouth where there are no teeth). Then, with my right hand, I put the piller back far enough in his mouth so the endcap is in the back of his throat (past the base of his tongue). I have found from experience that if I don't put the piller back far enough, the pill will go in his mouth and not down his throat, and he can indeed spit it out. The operation only takes about one second, so he doesn't gag. The piller is long, so he can't close his teeth on the fingers of my right hand (which is what used to happen when I tried getting the pill down his throat with my fingers). Those teeth were mighty sharp. While I'm holding the piller in my right hand, I am simultaneously keeping his paws out of the way with my right forearm. This isn't always foolproof, and I have still gotten clawed a couple of times. If there is another person present, I will ask the other person to hold the cat's paws, so he can't claw me. As I said, the whole operation only takes a couple of seconds, so the pill is down the cat's throat before he knows what happened. BTW, don't worry that the cat will gag. It is actually much worse when the pill doesn't get all the way to the back of the throat. The cat then tries desperately to spit it out and starts drooling. My cat has never once gagged/thrown up from being pilled. Here is an illustration. Scroll to the bottom to see the image of the cat being pilled with the piller: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3D2%26hl%3Den As for WHICH drugs, precisely, well we appreciate the suggestions given here, by you and others, but at the end of the day you have to go with your vet's beliefs, don't you. Just so you know, the advice to use Plavix (clopidogrel) rather than plain aspirin is fairly cutting edge (WRT cats) but came directly from Cornell. If you ask your vet about it, and she sort of blows it off, please request that she at least place a phone call to Cornell. Somewhere on Yahoo, there is a support group which is specifically for people who have cats with various heart diseases, and from what I read there, it's extremely rare for a cat who's on Plavix to form a clot. According to the participants on that group, it is not unusual for a cat taking Plavix to still be alive a year or more down the road. Clots are a major danger/cause of death for cats with heart disease. Of course, that doesn't do anything for the need for ongoing thoracocentesis :-( Best regards, ---Cindy S. Otherwise you part company with your vet or your vet loses confidence in you and you're on your own, which, if one is not a vet, is a dangerous road to go down. *So all our faith is in our vet now. *As long as she keeps telling us there is hope in drugs we will purchase them and administer them . . . until such time as the cat's happiness clearly comes to an end . . . which of course is going to happen one day. Thanks, again. Eddy. |
#15
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When do you "call it a day"?
Eddy,
A suggestion to help with medicine costs: have you checked pricing a different place? Walmart and Sam's Club generally have cheaper medications. Ask your vet for a prescription (if he's taking human medications) and shop around. A comparison: My vet charged $21 for 20 pills of turbuteline (a broncho diolater). I was able to get 30 pills at Walmart for $17.xx. You could potentially save a lot of money by doing this. |
#16
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When do you "call it a day"?
wrote in message ... Eddy, A suggestion to help with medicine costs: have you checked pricing a different place? Walmart and Sam's Club generally have cheaper medications. Ask your vet for a prescription (if he's taking human medications) and shop around. A comparison: My vet charged $21 for 20 pills of turbuteline (a broncho diolater). I was able to get 30 pills at Walmart for $17.xx. You could potentially save a lot of money by doing this. Also check on line I save almost $100 by ordering online for My Phantoms methimazole instead of getting from the vet |
#17
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When do you "call it a day"?
Eddy wrote:
wrote: If the financial situation is sustainable, keep at it. This may seem brutal that cost should be a factor, but as it happens, quality-of- life goes both ways. Peter, thanks for your advice. Yes, cost is definitely a factor. So far his vet treatment over the past month has cost us $450.00 (in US dollars). We are not wealthy. In fact we are living on a shoe-string. We have swallowed that initial expense and have done the sums and can just about manage the cost of his monthly medication bill. But we certainly can't be having further drainings and X-rays etc. So now it's over to the drugs and how long he can tolerate a high dose of the diuretics per day. Eddy. Sending heartfelt purrs that your decisions will be sound. I can't help but think of the old saying: If foresight were as good as hindsight, there would be no mistakes. Best wishes. MLB |
#18
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When do you "call it a day"?
"Eddy" wrote in message ... I would like to know various people's views on when one should "call it a day" when a beloved pet has a very serious illness. If increasing part of the medication to maximum level will give the animal good quality of life for a large part of the day though in the end the side-effects of that large increase in medication will cause additional complications, do you give the animal that extra good-quality time and wait until the additional complications set in? Do you say that it is good that increasing the medication has largely removed the animal's suffering but while the animal is now in this good window you should put him to sleep, rather than wait for the next down-turn? Or do you say that in spite of the increased medication the animal remains below par, below normal health, and should therefore be relieved of life without more ado? Or what? We are having a tough time here. One thing is certain. This fine young cat could have been put to sleep a month ago when it was found he had "very serious congestive heart failure" but since then, because of the medication, and increases in his medication, he has enjoyed some very happy days frolicking around in the sunshine, devouring good food, and luxuriating in front of the fire. Eddy. Eddy this is one of the hardest decision anyone that loves their furballs need to make. But from my experiences only you can know when it is time. You could have many more years with your friend or days it is not up to us till it is time. If the furball is eating, doing his/her daily business, Playing like a kitten [ ;-) ] and being a cat than it is not time but when they go down you will know when it is time. My phantom has hyperthyroidism and is in the beginning of kidney failure. I can get it taken care of for $1000 permantley for the first part; which for me the risks or not worth it since he is 15. He takes a pill everyday to help his situation. My Rumble is epileptic and is diabetic. In the beginning I thought I might have to put him down since the medicine was not holding. He was ripping his face off due to a allergy to a medication. The seizures were knocking him senseless. Something told me to hang in and maintain hope. He took medication and insulin shots everyday till a few members like Cybercat, Phil P., Cheryl, Lynne and Mary L. helped me out and helped me get him regulated. He has been seizure free for almost 4 years and insulin free for almost 3 years now. When it is time you will know |
#19
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When do you "call it a day"?
On Apr 21, 12:14*pm, wrote:
Eddy, A suggestion to help with medicine costs: have you checked pricing a different place? Walmart and Sam's Club generally have cheaper medications. Ask your vet for a prescription (if he's taking human medications) and shop around. A comparison: My vet charged $21 for 20 pills of turbuteline (a broncho diolater). I was able to get 30 pills at Walmart for $17.xx. You could potentially save a lot of money by doing this. ------ And for the medications that are not human or are human but only in much larger doses, try 1-800-PETMEDS. I get my cats' Tumil-K (potassium supplement) from Pet Meds: 100 pills for $21 rather than 100 pills for $38 (at my vet). All orders over $39 are shipped for free. The furosemide 2.5 mg and enalapril (can't remember the dose off the top of my head) are about half the price the vet charges. I was paying my vet $8 for 100 gelcaps, which are clear, empty capsules (I combine the pills in one clear capsule so the cat is getting one pill rather than four). At the Capsuline website, the gelcaps were 1000 for $16. I am currently using size 2. IIRC, the shipping was free from Capsuline as well. Best regards, ---Cindy S. |
#20
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When do you "call it a day"?
"Eddy" wrote
Peter, thanks for your advice. Yes, cost is definitely a factor. So far his vet treatment over the past month has cost us $450.00 (in US dollars). We are not wealthy. In fact we are living on a shoe-string. We have swallowed that initial expense and have done the sums and can just about manage the cost of his monthly medication bill. But we Eddy, your question is diverse and will show many answers. The reason is the conditions vary. Sometimes it's real obvious. I had a senile cat who in the middle of the night when we were asleep, knock a glass salt shaker off a counter then later eat glass from her food bowl and not even notice she cut her tounge til too late. Emergency vet at 5am and that one was 'thank god we had per put to sleep before there was pain'. (yes, glass in stomach and working down). Other times, it's not as clear. I'll go with the folks who also say a reasonable level of 'how much can you manage and still feed the rest of the family' is a critical factor. If you know the quality of life for the beloved pet will decline without the meds, but can't afford them, then you have to make a hard choice. It's OK to chose your 2 legged kids health if it's that tight and I think you should. I'm not talking if they can have a new nintendo game a week but neither are you. There is sometimes a 3rd option. I adopted a pet who had medical problems the others couldnt afford to treat. Instead of having him put to sleep, he lived a long (realtively for his condition) time with me. It's not easy to find a new home for a pet with medical costs known up front, but it does happen. It's not a bad thing to put a note out locally and see if something happens. I in fact now have 2 'rescue pets' both of which were considered unadoptable. One for medical and one for behavior. I can afford the medical and the behavior problem one was pretty easy (single cat, dont add a second cat as she will not tolerate another, also a few semi-feral issues we easily deal with). Good luck Eddy, and to your friend. |
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