Food Question

From: "Jon C"

Wellness Turkey and Salmon has a phosphorus level of 0.88% and the Chicken
and Salmon has a phosphorus level of 0.91%. Both are well below the
oft-quoted 0.98% maximum recommended phosphorus level.

Jon, is this the dry or canned version? What does the AAFCO statement say?

From: "Jon C"

Wellness Turkey and Salmon has a phosphorus level of 0.88% and the Chicken
and Salmon has a phosphorus level of 0.91%. Both are well below the
oft-quoted 0.98% maximum recommended phosphorus level.

Jon, is this the dry or canned version? What does the AAFCO statement say?

From: (GAUBSTER2)

As for calcium/phosphorous levels of the foods you mentioned--I did call the
company themselves and the info they provided me is what I touched on. You
don't like that fact, so you try to label the bearer of your bad news a
"troll". Grow up.

Ok, I'll give you a chance here. What exactly is the proximate dry matter
analysis including calcium/phosphorous levels for Nature's Variety?
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: (GAUBSTER2)

As for calcium/phosphorous levels of the foods you mentioned--I did call the
company themselves and the info they provided me is what I touched on. You
don't like that fact, so you try to label the bearer of your bad news a
"troll". Grow up.

Ok, I'll give you a chance here. What exactly is the proximate dry matter
analysis including calcium/phosphorous levels for Nature's Variety?
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: (GAUBSTER2)

As for calcium/phosphorous levels of the foods you mentioned--I did call the
company themselves and the info they provided me is what I touched on. You
don't like that fact, so you try to label the bearer of your bad news a
"troll". Grow up.

Ok, I'll give you a chance here. What exactly is the proximate dry matter
analysis including calcium/phosphorous levels for Nature's Variety?
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From: (GAUBSTER2)

Lauren, you are quite wrong. I know enough about feline nutrition to know
that
phosphorus and calcium levels as well as pH ranges of various cat foods can
wreak havoc on a cat's health (like the ones you suggested).

Really? So what exactly are the numbers for the ones I've suggested and what
data do you have to back up any claims you make? Any food that isn't Scie Die
in your book is bad. You need to do some research really.

Well let's see what the answers a

Nature's Variety to start with
Lamb canned version 1.28% phosphorus, 1.6% calcium
Chick & turkey 1.04% Phos, 1.48% calc
Rabbit 1.04% Phos, 1.4% calc
Duck 1.32% phos, 1.72% calc
Venison 1.04% phos, 1.8% calc

Innova Cat 1.32% phos, 1.44% calcium

Maximum recommended levels for an adult cat
0.9% phos, 1.0% calc

Of the foods recommended, and that are willing to give you the
nutrient levels, all are in excess of the maximum recommended Key
Nutritional Factor level for these minerals. Wellness and Felidae
don't like to share these values, which might give one pause to wonder
what they are hiding.

I guess the person that needs to do some research is the person
recommending products that exceed KNF maximum levels for an adult cat,
wouldn't ya think?

And don't bother telling us there is no harm in these levels, you need
to make that argument with the people who developed the
recommendations. Claudia Kirk, professor at University of Tennesee,
DVM, PhD, Diplomate of the American College of Vetinary Internal
Medicine and Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary
Nutrition, Jaccques DeBraekeleer, DVM Adjunct Professor of Small
Animal Clinical Nutrition, Veterinary Faculty of the State University
Gent Belgium, and P. Jane Armstrong, DVM MS Diplomate American College
of Veterinary Internal Medicine, Professor Internal Medicine and
Clinical Nutrition, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of
Minnesota St. Paul.

olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From: (GAUBSTER2)

Lauren, you are quite wrong. I know enough about feline nutrition to know
that
phosphorus and calcium levels as well as pH ranges of various cat foods can
wreak havoc on a cat's health (like the ones you suggested).

Really? So what exactly are the numbers for the ones I've suggested and what
data do you have to back up any claims you make? Any food that isn't Scie Die
in your book is bad. You need to do some research really.

Well let's see what the answers a

Nature's Variety to start with
Lamb canned version 1.28% phosphorus, 1.6% calcium
Chick & turkey 1.04% Phos, 1.48% calc
Rabbit 1.04% Phos, 1.4% calc
Duck 1.32% phos, 1.72% calc
Venison 1.04% phos, 1.8% calc

Innova Cat 1.32% phos, 1.44% calcium

Maximum recommended levels for an adult cat
0.9% phos, 1.0% calc

Of the foods recommended, and that are willing to give you the
nutrient levels, all are in excess of the maximum recommended Key
Nutritional Factor level for these minerals. Wellness and Felidae
don't like to share these values, which might give one pause to wonder
what they are hiding.

I guess the person that needs to do some research is the person
recommending products that exceed KNF maximum levels for an adult cat,
wouldn't ya think?

And don't bother telling us there is no harm in these levels, you need
to make that argument with the people who developed the
recommendations. Claudia Kirk, professor at University of Tennesee,
DVM, PhD, Diplomate of the American College of Vetinary Internal
Medicine and Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary
Nutrition, Jaccques DeBraekeleer, DVM Adjunct Professor of Small
Animal Clinical Nutrition, Veterinary Faculty of the State University
Gent Belgium, and P. Jane Armstrong, DVM MS Diplomate American College
of Veterinary Internal Medicine, Professor Internal Medicine and
Clinical Nutrition, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of
Minnesota St. Paul.

olitter (PawsForThought) wrote in message ...
From: (GAUBSTER2)

Lauren, you are quite wrong. I know enough about feline nutrition to know
that
phosphorus and calcium levels as well as pH ranges of various cat foods can
wreak havoc on a cat's health (like the ones you suggested).

Really? So what exactly are the numbers for the ones I've suggested and what
data do you have to back up any claims you make? Any food that isn't Scie Die
in your book is bad. You need to do some research really.

Well let's see what the answers a

Nature's Variety to start with
Lamb canned version 1.28% phosphorus, 1.6% calcium
Chick & turkey 1.04% Phos, 1.48% calc
Rabbit 1.04% Phos, 1.4% calc
Duck 1.32% phos, 1.72% calc
Venison 1.04% phos, 1.8% calc

Innova Cat 1.32% phos, 1.44% calcium

Maximum recommended levels for an adult cat
0.9% phos, 1.0% calc

Of the foods recommended, and that are willing to give you the
nutrient levels, all are in excess of the maximum recommended Key
Nutritional Factor level for these minerals. Wellness and Felidae
don't like to share these values, which might give one pause to wonder
what they are hiding.

I guess the person that needs to do some research is the person
recommending products that exceed KNF maximum levels for an adult cat,
wouldn't ya think?

And don't bother telling us there is no harm in these levels, you need
to make that argument with the people who developed the
recommendations. Claudia Kirk, professor at University of Tennesee,
DVM, PhD, Diplomate of the American College of Vetinary Internal
Medicine and Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary
Nutrition, Jaccques DeBraekeleer, DVM Adjunct Professor of Small
Animal Clinical Nutrition, Veterinary Faculty of the State University
Gent Belgium, and P. Jane Armstrong, DVM MS Diplomate American College
of Veterinary Internal Medicine, Professor Internal Medicine and
Clinical Nutrition, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of
Minnesota St. Paul.

wrote in message ...
Gaubster2, the long-time troll that spends *every* *waking* *moment*
hovering over his keyboard, monitoring the newsgroups and waiting
breathlessly for someone to say the word "food" so he can spout endless,
unsupported nonsense while emphatically chastising others and insisting
on references (which are provided yet he never reads) although *he*
never provides any and continues to spout false information regardless
of being proven wrong time and time again, wrote:

What's wrong w/ carbs?

Plenty, when your forcing them on an animal that is a strict carnivore
with no need or ability to process them properly.

One ought to keep in mind the difference between *opinion*,
*hypothesis* and hard data. To date the carbohphobics have a
hypothesis. It may or may not be correct. What they do NOT have is any
hard peer reviewed published studies to support the hypothesis. Drs.
Zoran, Greco and one or two others have done an excellent job of
hypothesising possible issues around feeding carbohydrates to cats.
None of the issue hypotehsized have been proven in any manner
whatsoever by any peer reviewed published studies.

One also ought to keep in mind that there is another side issue
involved. If you remove the carbohydrates from foods you have to
replace the energy they provide with something, either fats or
proteins. If you increase fats in an already obese society of cats
there may be a downside to that process. With increased protein levels
you almost always increase calcium and phosphorus. Renal failure is
the number two killer of kitties in this country. Increasing
phosphorus in the cat population as whole will unquestionably have
massive negative side effects. Before jumping over the cliff it would
be wise to know just how far the bottom is from the top of the cliff.
At present the carbophobics are busy jumping off a cliff without any
knowledge of how far they are going to fall.

wrote in message ...
Gaubster2, the long-time troll that spends *every* *waking* *moment*
hovering over his keyboard, monitoring the newsgroups and waiting
breathlessly for someone to say the word "food" so he can spout endless,
unsupported nonsense while emphatically chastising others and insisting
on references (which are provided yet he never reads) although *he*
never provides any and continues to spout false information regardless
of being proven wrong time and time again, wrote:

What's wrong w/ carbs?

Plenty, when your forcing them on an animal that is a strict carnivore
with no need or ability to process them properly.

One ought to keep in mind the difference between *opinion*,
*hypothesis* and hard data. To date the carbohphobics have a
hypothesis. It may or may not be correct. What they do NOT have is any
hard peer reviewed published studies to support the hypothesis. Drs.
Zoran, Greco and one or two others have done an excellent job of
hypothesising possible issues around feeding carbohydrates to cats.
None of the issue hypotehsized have been proven in any manner
whatsoever by any peer reviewed published studies.

One also ought to keep in mind that there is another side issue
involved. If you remove the carbohydrates from foods you have to
replace the energy they provide with something, either fats or
proteins. If you increase fats in an already obese society of cats
there may be a downside to that process. With increased protein levels
you almost always increase calcium and phosphorus. Renal failure is
the number two killer of kitties in this country. Increasing
phosphorus in the cat population as whole will unquestionably have
massive negative side effects. Before jumping over the cliff it would
be wise to know just how far the bottom is from the top of the cliff.
At present the carbophobics are busy jumping off a cliff without any
knowledge of how far they are going to fall.