Spayed Female & Un-neutered Male... Would it work?

"Margaret S." wrote in message
...

I don't post personal info on Usenet, but I'll put some of my background
on
my website. And I'll link to it from my Flame War Zone, since I've
answered
some of your flames there instead of here.

Please answer posts here, not elsewhere. Don't force people to go to your
website.

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

"Margaret S." wrote in message
...
Not if he has a vasectomy. In that case, he might be able to keep an
unspayed neighborhood female from getting pregnant this heat period, thus
actually helping the population situation. (Tho repeated vasectomied
matings
with a female who still has a uterus might not be healthy for her; ask
your
vet.)

Or he could neuter his cat and keep him inside. Sheesh.

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

"KellyH" wrote in message
...
"Margaret S." wrote in message
...

"Granny" is a middle-aged indoor/outdoor cat who has been producing
litters
for several years. She and several other cats have a very good
relationship:
grooming each other, sleeping in a pile on the owner's bed, sharing a
big
food bowl. Everyone's health is good, no one is spraying or displaying
other
signs of stress or aggression. All have all available vaccinations and
tested FIV negative. Her mate, "Grandpa", uses the cat door and does his
spraying outdoors. "Granny" does not have to wander or mate with strange
toms, as "Grandpa" is always ready for her. (The local vet says
"Grandpa"
has negligible chance of being bit by an FIV-positive cat in this area.)
The
_only_ problem this household has is pregnancy.

snip

I already know what she would say. Spay the female and neuter the male.
We
had a ten year old cat come into the shelter who was unspayed. Honestly, I
was surprised the cat was that old and still alive, being unspayed. She
looked more like 15-17 years old, but she was an owner turn-in, so we knew
how old. Owner did not spay the girls, but neutered the males because of
finances. This cat was terribly underweight because of not being spayed.

In your scenario, how does the vet *know* the male has a negligible chance
of getting FIV? Has she tested every cat in the neighborhood?

Too me, I don't picture these two cats as a happily mated pair. I see
poor
"Granny" suffering, having to mate because of drive and instinct. Poor
thing going into heat over and over again. I see "Grandpa" getting eaten
by
an animal, beat up by another tom, run over, being the nusance of the
neighborhood with his spraying. Cats deserve a better life than that.


Your vision is clear and true.

"KellyH" wrote in message
...
"Margaret S." wrote in message
...

I don't post personal info on Usenet, but I'll put some of my background
on
my website. And I'll link to it from my Flame War Zone, since I've
answered
some of your flames there instead of here.

Please answer posts here, not elsewhere. Don't force people to go to your
website.

--

She knows she cannot defend her asshole philosophy that is
harmful to cats and downright cruel. Margaret is a sick ****.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:40:31 -0500, KellyH wrote:

"Margaret S." wrote in message
...

/snip/

I already know what she would say. Spay the female and neuter the male.
We
had a ten year old cat come into the shelter who was unspayed. Honestly, I
was surprised the cat was that old and still alive, being unspayed. She
looked more like 15-17 years old, but she was an owner turn-in, so we knew
how old. Owner did not spay the girls, but neutered the males because of
finances. This cat was terribly underweight because of not being spayed.


I suppose you mean, underweight because of having too many litters?


This is why I try to keep my Usenet posts short and refer people to my
website. Material on Usenet gets snipped out of context. I was not comparing
fertile vs sterile, ie many litters vs no litters, but sterilization by
desexing vs sterilization by "remove the uterus but leave the ovaries" (or
perhaps tubal ligation; consult vet).

Also, my disclaimer about "Granny" being a hypothetical construct in works,
was snipped and not mentioned in your reply; doubtless now some flamers will
begin accusing me of etc etc.

/snip/

Too me, I don't picture these two cats as a happily mated pair. I see
poor "Granny" suffering, having to mate because of drive and instinct. Poor
thing going into heat over and over again.

Perhaps you're thinking of cats who are PREVENTED from mating. In my
experience and reading, cats allowed 'sterile matings' do not have stressful
heats, and may go several weeks or months before another heat period.


Margaret S.
--
http://www.sangerfan.com Alternatives to Spaying / Neutering
Nothing I say is professional advice. Consult your own doctor, lawyer,
veterinarian, butcher, baker, and candlestick maker.

"Margaret S." wrote in message
...

Also, my disclaimer about "Granny" being a hypothetical construct in
works,
was snipped and not mentioned in your reply; doubtless now some flamers
will
begin accusing me of etc etc.


I don't get what you are saying. It's wrong to snip part of a post? I do
that to save space. Anyone can see your original post.

This is why I try to keep my Usenet posts short and refer people to my
website. Material on Usenet gets snipped out of context. I was not
comparing
fertile vs sterile, ie many litters vs no litters, but sterilization by
desexing vs sterilization by "remove the uterus but leave the ovaries" (or
perhaps tubal ligation; consult vet).

In my opinion, it would be better to fully "desex" as you put it, both the
male and female of this hypothetical situation. If you give the male a
vasectomy, and leave the ovaries of the female, you still have the negatives
of an intact male and female. The female keeps going into heat, and the
male still sprays, fights, etc. As I've said before, WHAT'S THE POINT????


I suppose you mean, underweight because of having too many litters?


No, this cat actually only had one litter. The males of the house were
neutered. She was underweight from going into heat over and over again.

Perhaps you're thinking of cats who are PREVENTED from mating. In my
experience and reading, cats allowed 'sterile matings' do not have
stressful
heats, and may go several weeks or months before another heat period.


Read what you wrote. The cat will go into heat again in several weeks or
months. Is that fair to the cat? She could be spayed and spared this
misery.

--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

"KellyH" wrote :
No, this cat actually only had one litter. The males of the house were
neutered. She was underweight from going into heat over and over again.

Perhaps you're thinking of cats who are PREVENTED from mating. In my
experience and reading, cats allowed 'sterile matings' do not have
stressful
heats, and may go several weeks or months before another heat period.


Read what you wrote. The cat will go into heat again in several weeks or
months. Is that fair to the cat? She could be spayed and spared this
misery.

No, no, no, Margaret is convinced that kitty gets all deliciously
hot and bothered during heat and just loves that spiny penis.
Have I mentioned that Margaret is a ****ing moron?

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:57:04 -0500, KellyH wrote:

"Margaret S." wrote in message
...

Also, my disclaimer about "Granny" being a hypothetical construct in
works,
was snipped and not mentioned in your reply; doubtless now some flamers
will
begin accusing me of etc etc.


I don't get what you are saying. It's wrong to snip part of a post? I do
that to save space. Anyone can see your original post.

If they bother to look, and if they can successfully use Google Groups
interface. There's also the possibility I might make an error. I want my
errors where I can correct them, instead of preserved forever at GG.


This is why I try to keep my Usenet posts short and refer people to my
website. Material on Usenet gets snipped out of context. I was not
comparing
fertile vs sterile, ie many litters vs no litters, but sterilization by
desexing vs sterilization by "remove the uterus but leave the ovaries"
(or
perhaps tubal ligation; consult vet).

In my opinion, it would be better to fully "desex" as you put it, both the
male and female of this hypothetical situation. If you give the male a
vasectomy, and leave the ovaries of the female, you still have the negatives
of an intact male and female.

I wouldn't use a vasectomied tom & a female with a uterus as an on-going
combination, for medical reasons too complicated for Usenet. I've talked
about that under the question, "Why not do only the male, as with human
couples?"

/snip/

I suppose you mean, underweight because of having too many litters?


No, this cat actually only had one litter. The males of the house were
neutered. She was underweight from going into heat over and over again.


That is awful! But how did she survive so many frustrated heats without
developing pyometra or other uterus problems? Are you sure she wasn't
malnourished or having other problems? What about the other females?


Perhaps you're thinking of cats who are PREVENTED from mating. In my
experience and reading, cats allowed 'sterile matings' do not have
stressful heats, and may go several weeks or months before another heat
period.

Read what you wrote. The cat will go into heat again in several weeks or
months. Is that fair to the cat? She could be spayed and spared this
misery.


Read what I wrote. With an immediate 'sterile mating', the heat is not
stressful, not "misery" (and very short, ime).



Margaret S.
--
http://www.sangerfan.com Alternatives to Spaying / Neutering
Nothing I say is professional advice. Consult your own doctor, lawyer,
veterinarian, butcher, baker, and candlestick maker.

"Margaret S." wrote in message
...

That is awful! But how did she survive so many frustrated heats without
developing pyometra or other uterus problems? Are you sure she wasn't
malnourished or having other problems? What about the other females?


The cats were all in ill health in general. Had not seen a vet in years.
The other females were younger, around 3-5 yrs. They were also skinny.
Could have been some malnutrition, but the males were a good weight. I
honestly don't know how this cat survived without developing pyometra.

I wouldn't use a vasectomied tom & a female with a uterus as an on-going
combination, for medical reasons too complicated for Usenet. I've talked
about that under the question, "Why not do only the male, as with human
couples?"


Then what would have been your solution for hypothetical Granny and Grandpa
cat?

Read what I wrote. With an immediate 'sterile mating', the heat is not
stressful, not "misery" (and very short, ime).


This is where I strongly disagree.
--
-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:02:48 -0500, KellyH wrote:

"Margaret S." wrote in message
...

That is awful! But how did she survive so many frustrated heats without
developing pyometra or other uterus problems? Are you sure she wasn't
malnourished or having other problems? What about the other females?


The cats were all in ill health in general. Had not seen a vet in years.
The other females were younger, around 3-5 yrs. They were also skinny.
Could have been some malnutrition, but the males were a good weight.

Were they all fed together? If this owner couldn't afford spaying, maybe she
couldn't afford enough food to go around, and the males hogged it.


I honestly don't know how this cat survived without developing pyometra.


Did any of the females get pyometra, or other uterus problems?



Margaret S.
--
http://www.sangerfan.com Alternatives to Spaying / Neutering
Nothing I say is professional advice. Consult your own doctor, lawyer,
veterinarian, butcher, baker, and candlestick maker.