Trap, Neuter, and Release: Bad for Cats, Disaster for Birds (HD)

"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"chatnoir" wrote in message
...
On Aug 16, 1:35 am, "Phil P." wrote:
"chatnoir" wrote in message

...
On Aug 15, 9:49 pm, "Phil P." wrote:





"chatnoir" wrote in message

...

http://www.youtube.com/abcbirds

Pure bull****. The entire video is based on fraudulent and manipulated
"studies" by Temple & Coleman. Temple & Coleman were interviewed in
1994
and asked to substantiate their figures. When cornered, they admitted "
"Those figures were from our proposal. They aren't actual data; that
was
just our projection to show how bad it might be." IOW, their estimates
of
cat kill were nothing more than guesses. Yet the bird groups-
especially
ABC, cite these quacks' papers as though they were scientific studies
that
have undergone the peer-review process- which they have not. What's
even
more ridiculous, is that practically all the "studies" Temple &
Coleman's
cite in their bull**** "papers" are their *own* guesstimated "studies".
That's exactly the same as using yourself as a reference! But that
doesn't
bother the bird groups as long as the papers say what they want them to
say.

Here are a couple of good reads that pick Temple & Coleman's "studies"
apart:

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html...sin_study.html

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html..._reviewed.html
headline:
Cats and wildlife - how you can protect both
LW0025
Stephen Platt, August 1999
Where is your cat at the moment?

News flash: We're talking about *feral* cats, Einstein- not pet cats.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Seems they would be worse!

No, Einstein,- ferals are usually much better hunters than pet cats. g
Have you ever seen a cat leap 6 feet straight up and catch a bird in mid
air? I have. It was absolutely magnificent!

Since birdseed is cheaper than cat food, I've been thinking about
spreading
birdseed around my colonies instead of putting out cat food. Not only
would
I save a fortune, but the cats would have some entertainment with their
dinner and they'd also get some exercise to boot..


heh. Go Phil.

"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"chatnoir" wrote in message

Phil, check the posting history for this nutball. Alt.alien.abduction, etc.
I am not kidding. she's in a cat group, but I think maybe she ought to be in
a BIRD group.

Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (8/16/2009 12:49 AM):
"jmc" wrote in message
...
Suddenly, without warning, cybercat exclaimed (8/15/2009 1:59 AM):
"chatnoir" wrote in message

...
http://www.youtube.com/abcbirds
So what is the answer?

TNR




Sadly, the only answer currently is humane euthanasia for unadoptable
individuals.

I'm surprised at you. I thought you had more sense than that. Ferals in
well managed colonies live long and happy & healthy lives. I have 300 cats
in 16 colonies to prove it. And that's just my colonies.



I admit, I know nothing about colonies, but my understanding was that
they're suffering the same population explosion as the shelters, etc, as
more and more people are dumping their cats at handy colonies. I'm not
sure how that many cats living in close proximity can stay healthy. I'd
think one person dumping their cat because it was sick could devastate a
colony. I'd be happy to be wrong though.

jmc

Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (8/16/2009 8:52 AM):
"jmc" wrote in message
...
Suddenly, without warning, cybercat exclaimed (8/15/2009 2:43 PM):
"jmc" wrote in message
...
Suddenly, without warning, cybercat exclaimed (8/15/2009 1:59 AM):
"chatnoir" wrote in message

...
http://www.youtube.com/abcbirds
So what is the answer?
Sadly, the only answer currently is humane euthanasia for unadoptable
individuals. It is a hard decision, but shelters are so very
overloaded,
I think it's the only humane thing we can do until the human population
can be better educated to spay, neuter, and not breed cats
indiscriminately.

I know this is an unpopular thought, and I hate the necessity, but
there
truly isn't anything else that can be done currently.

Euthanize rather than TNR? Not even.


Actually, along with. Euthanasia,

Its not euthanasia- its killing. Euthanasia is ending the life of a
suffering animal.


I think, is probably a better death
than dying of old age and/or sickness in an overpopulated colony.

What's a better than dying of old age??? That's how I want to go! I think
you need to do a lot more research because you're clearly misinformed. Feral
cats in well managed colonies live long, healthy and happy lives.

Look how much the cats in my colony are suffering.....

http://maxshouse.com/on_the_prowl.htm



I know it's not a popular opinion. I hate that it's necessary, but I'm
a realist.

A realist, huh? You're suggesting killing 100 million feral cats.



Not really, I'm talking about unadoptable pets in shelters, and very old
and sick cats in colonies not committing genocide on colonies. Are you
suggesting perhaps the shelters should send the cats for which they have
no room to colonies?

jmc

Suddenly, without warning, cybercat exclaimed (8/16/2009 2:42 PM):
"Stan Brown" wrote in message
t...
Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:52:26 GMT from Phil P. :
Its not euthanasia- its killing. Euthanasia is ending the life of a
suffering animal.
And you think they're not suffering in a crowded kennel with other
animals, some of them sick and all of them anxious and upset? Do you
think a battery chicken is better off continuing that life or being
given a painless death?

As jmc said, it's not a good alternative but it's also not
necessarily the worst.

The SPCA in Tompkins County is a no-kill shelter, but even their
resources are strained to the limit. I can't imagine what conditions
must be like in an urban shelter.


The topis is TNR, Stan. This stupid bitch is saying this needs to stop and
the cats must be killed to save the birds. Do you agree with that?



cybercat, ok, enough. I DID NOT SAY THAT! If that's what you read, you
misunderstood. I was talking of overpopulation in shelters, cats that
cannot be adopted from SHELTERS. I mentioned cats in colonies as well,
but I'll take that back because clearly I don't know what I'm talking
about there.

jmc

Suddenly, without warning, cybercat exclaimed (8/16/2009 2:42 PM):
"Stan Brown" wrote in message
t...
Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:52:26 GMT from Phil P. :
Its not euthanasia- its killing. Euthanasia is ending the life of a
suffering animal.
And you think they're not suffering in a crowded kennel with other
animals, some of them sick and all of them anxious and upset? Do you
think a battery chicken is better off continuing that life or being
given a painless death?

As jmc said, it's not a good alternative but it's also not
necessarily the worst.

The SPCA in Tompkins County is a no-kill shelter, but even their
resources are strained to the limit. I can't imagine what conditions
must be like in an urban shelter.


The topis is TNR, Stan. This stupid bitch is saying this needs to stop and
the cats must be killed to save the birds. Do you agree with that?



I've been posting here for years (I'm Meep's mom), I post one thing that
you don't like and suddenly I'm a stupid bitch?

You really do have a hair trigger. Plenty of folks here, including you,
have said things I disagree with, but I've never once called you, or
anyone else here, names.

As I said in another post, you've misunderstood what I said, but meh.
This is usenet, and unlike some I don't get riled from what some random
person I only know in text says.

Hope your kitties are doing well, and have a nice day.

jmc

On Aug 16, 5:52*am, "Phil P." wrote:
"chatnoir" wrote in message

...
On Aug 16, 1:35 am, "Phil P." wrote:







"chatnoir" wrote in message

....
On Aug 15, 9:49 pm, "Phil P." wrote:

"chatnoir" wrote in message

....

http://www.youtube.com/abcbirds

Pure bull****. The entire video is based on fraudulent and manipulated
"studies" by Temple & Coleman. Temple & Coleman were interviewed in 1994
and asked to substantiate their figures. When cornered, they admitted "
"Those figures were from our proposal. They aren't actual data; that was
just our projection to show how bad it might be." IOW, their estimates
of
cat kill were nothing more than guesses. Yet the bird groups- especially
ABC, cite these quacks' papers as though they were scientific studies
that
have undergone the peer-review process- which they have not. What's even
more ridiculous, is that practically all the "studies" Temple &
Coleman's
cite in their bull**** "papers" are their *own* guesstimated "studies".
That's exactly the same as using yourself as a reference! But that
doesn't
bother the bird groups as long as the papers say what they want them to
say.

Here are a couple of good reads that pick Temple & Coleman's "studies"
apart:

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html...sin_study.html

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html..._reviewed.html

There are other studies from sources non-biased such as the Spray Pet
Advocay, that indicates bird predation by cats is serious!:

http://www.geocities.com/the_srco/Article.html

DOMESTIC CAT (Felis catus ) PREDATION OF BIRDS IN AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT

That's not a scientic, peer-reviewed study, Einstein- its just a paper.
The
author used 3 of Temple & Coleman's bull**** papers for their guesstimated
guesstimates of statistics. The authors have no credibility.

Hey! Look at the upside- Cats are improving the avian species by removing
slow and stupid birds from the gene pool. lol!- Hide quoted text -

That is a stupid statement!

One stupid statement deserves another, eh Einstein?

Your use of Einstein shows your mentality

Actually, my use of "Einstein" was sarcastic and referred to your mentality
or more precisely, lack thereof.

and your sources are hardly unbiased!

At least the author of the paper I cited didn't cite her own bull**** papers
as references. That must have escaped your lightening quick perception, eh
Einstein?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I found articles where there were other references

"chatnoir" wrote in message
...
On Aug 16, 5:52 am, "Phil P." wrote:
"chatnoir" wrote in message

...
On Aug 16, 1:35 am, "Phil P." wrote:







"chatnoir" wrote in message

...
On Aug 15, 9:49 pm, "Phil P." wrote:

"chatnoir" wrote in message

...

http://www.youtube.com/abcbirds

Pure bull****. The entire video is based on fraudulent and manipulated
"studies" by Temple & Coleman. Temple & Coleman were interviewed in
1994
and asked to substantiate their figures. When cornered, they admitted
"
"Those figures were from our proposal. They aren't actual data; that
was
just our projection to show how bad it might be." IOW, their estimates
of
cat kill were nothing more than guesses. Yet the bird groups-
especially
ABC, cite these quacks' papers as though they were scientific studies
that
have undergone the peer-review process- which they have not. What's
even
more ridiculous, is that practically all the "studies" Temple &
Coleman's
cite in their bull**** "papers" are their *own* guesstimated
"studies".
That's exactly the same as using yourself as a reference! But that
doesn't
bother the bird groups as long as the papers say what they want them
to
say.

Here are a couple of good reads that pick Temple & Coleman's "studies"
apart:

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html...sin_study.html

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html..._reviewed.html

There are other studies from sources non-biased such as the Spray Pet
Advocay, that indicates bird predation by cats is serious!:

http://www.geocities.com/the_srco/Article.html

DOMESTIC CAT (Felis catus ) PREDATION OF BIRDS IN AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT

That's not a scientic, peer-reviewed study, Einstein- its just a paper.
The
author used 3 of Temple & Coleman's bull**** papers for their
guesstimated
guesstimates of statistics. The authors have no credibility.

Hey! Look at the upside- Cats are improving the avian species by
removing
slow and stupid birds from the gene pool. lol!- Hide quoted text -

That is a stupid statement!

One stupid statement deserves another, eh Einstein?

Your use of Einstein shows your mentality

Actually, my use of "Einstein" was sarcastic and referred to your
mentality
or more precisely, lack thereof.

and your sources are hardly unbiased!

At least the author of the paper I cited didn't cite her own bull****
papers
as references. That must have escaped your lightening quick perception, eh
Einstein?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I found articles where there were other references

Die, birds. Die, die, die.

"jmc" wrote in message
...
Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (8/16/2009 8:52 AM):
"jmc" wrote in message
...
Suddenly, without warning, cybercat exclaimed (8/15/2009 2:43 PM):
"jmc" wrote in message
...
Suddenly, without warning, cybercat exclaimed (8/15/2009 1:59 AM):
"chatnoir" wrote in message


...
http://www.youtube.com/abcbirds
So what is the answer?
Sadly, the only answer currently is humane euthanasia for unadoptable
individuals. It is a hard decision, but shelters are so very
overloaded,
I think it's the only humane thing we can do until the human
population
can be better educated to spay, neuter, and not breed cats
indiscriminately.

I know this is an unpopular thought, and I hate the necessity, but
there
truly isn't anything else that can be done currently.

Euthanize rather than TNR? Not even.


Actually, along with. Euthanasia,

Its not euthanasia- its killing. Euthanasia is ending the life of a
suffering animal.


I think, is probably a better death
than dying of old age and/or sickness in an overpopulated colony.

What's a better than dying of old age??? That's how I want to go! I
think
you need to do a lot more research because you're clearly misinformed.
Feral
cats in well managed colonies live long, healthy and happy lives.

Look how much the cats in my colony are suffering.....

http://maxshouse.com/on_the_prowl.htm



I know it's not a popular opinion. I hate that it's necessary, but I'm
a realist.

A realist, huh? You're suggesting killing 100 million feral cats.



Not really, I'm talking about unadoptable pets in shelters,


No you weren't. You were specifically referring to feral colonies. You said:
"I think, is probably a better death than dying of old age and/or sickness
in an overpopulated colony."

"chatnoir" wrote in message
...
On Aug 15, 9:49 pm, "Phil P." wrote:
"chatnoir" wrote in message

...

http://www.youtube.com/abcbirds

Pure bull****. The entire video is based on fraudulent and manipulated
"studies" by Temple & Coleman. Temple & Coleman were interviewed in 1994
and asked to substantiate their figures. When cornered, they admitted "
"Those figures were from our proposal. They aren't actual data; that was
just our projection to show how bad it might be." IOW, their estimates of
cat kill were nothing more than guesses. Yet the bird groups- especially
ABC, cite these quacks' papers as though they were scientific studies that
have undergone the peer-review process- which they have not. What's even
more ridiculous, is that practically all the "studies" Temple & Coleman's
cite in their bull**** "papers" are their *own* guesstimated "studies".
That's exactly the same as using yourself as a reference! But that doesn't
bother the bird groups as long as the papers say what they want them to
say.

Here are a couple of good reads that pick Temple & Coleman's "studies"
apart:

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html...sin_study.html

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html..._reviewed.html

There are other studies from sources non-biased such as the Spray Pet
Advocay, that indicates bird predation by cats is serious!:

http://www.geocities.com/the_srco/Article.html

DOMESTIC CAT (Felis catus ) PREDATION OF BIRDS IN AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT



Carol A. Fiore and Karen Brown Sullivan

2000

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

ABSTRACT

To quantify the effects of urban domestic cat predation on birds in
Wichita, Kansas, a city of approximately 300,000 residents, we
collected birds killed by study cats, analyzed fecal material, and
tracked cats using radio collars to estimate mean numbers of birds
killed per cat. A random survey and information from local
veterinarians were used to calculate pet cat density.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Another bull**** "study" with shoddy methodology. These bimbos used the
same shoddy methodology as Temple & Coleman and Churcher & Lawton. They
based their guesstimated numbers of birds killed by cats on the number of
cats in an area estimated by local vets. Of that total guesstimated number
of cats, many are indoor cats, some cats are too old to hunt, some cats are
too young to hunt and some cats just don't hunt birds. IOW, the authors took
the number kills from a small group of cats and multiplied it by the total
number of cats in the area. But the bird groups, especially ABC, eagerly
accept and fund these bogus "studies" because they supports their agenda.