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#1
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Chronic Renal Failu Low protein, or good protein?
Our old-cat Tiger has just been diagnosed with CRF. The vet recommends
prescription low-protein, grain-supplemented cat food, but in Elizabeth Hodgkins' book "Your Cat", she recommends good-quality but low-phospate protein. What has been your experience? Thanks |
#2
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Chronic Renal Failu Low protein, or good protein?
I am not a fan of prescription foods for any reason. I really like the
Your Cat book, and also the catinfo.org website. She has a section discussing common feline diseases. This is taken from their site: Kidney Disease (CKD - formerly called "CRF"): Chronic kidney disease is probably the leading cause of mortality in the cat. It is troubling to think about the role that chronic dehydration may play in causing or exacerbating feline kidney disease. And remember, cats are chronically dehydrated - especially CKD cats - when they are on a diet of predominantly dry food. The prescription dry 'renal diets' such as Hill's Prescription k/d - which are commonly prescribed by veterinarians - contain only a small amount of moisture (~10% versus 78% for canned food) leaving your cat in a less than optimal state of water balance. I must say that I find it truly amazing when I hear about the very large numbers of cats receiving subcutaneous fluids while being maintained on a diet of dry food. This is an extremely illogical and unhealthy practice and every attempt should be made to get these cats on a diet that contains a higher moisture content. Please also note the following list of the first four ingredients of Hill's Prescription dry k/d after reviewing this section on reading a pet food label - and bearing in mind that your cat is a carnivore. Here is her link to food ingredients: http://www.catinfo.org/#Learn_How_To...gredient_Label |
#3
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Chronic Renal Failu Low protein, or good protein?
Here's another great article from Little Big Cat, a site I like a lot:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/k...in-older-cats/ |
#4
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Chronic Renal Failu Low protein, or good protein?
Rene wrote:
I am not a fan of prescription foods for any reason. I really like the Your Cat book, and also the catinfo.org website. She has a section discussing common feline diseases. This is taken from their site: Kidney Disease (CKD - formerly called "CRF"): Chronic kidney disease is probably the leading cause of mortality in the cat. It is troubling to think about the role that chronic dehydration may play in causing or exacerbating feline kidney disease. And remember, cats are chronically dehydrated - especially CKD cats - when they are on a diet of predominantly dry food. The prescription dry 'renal diets' such as Hill's Prescription k/d - which are commonly prescribed by veterinarians - contain only a small amount of moisture (~10% versus 78% for canned food) leaving your cat in a less than optimal state of water balance. I must say that I find it truly amazing when I hear about the very large numbers of cats receiving subcutaneous fluids while being maintained on a diet of dry food. This is an extremely illogical and unhealthy practice and every attempt should be made to get these cats on a diet that contains a higher moisture content. Please also note the following list of the first four ingredients of Hill's Prescription dry k/d after reviewing this section on reading a pet food label - and bearing in mind that your cat is a carnivore. Here is her link to food ingredients: http://www.catinfo.org/#Learn_How_To...gredient_Label I don't understamd how a house cat can become dehydrated. My five cats have two water bowls available to them at all times, which I refill every day. They eat almost exclusively dry foods ( a couple of them won't touch anything else) but they drink large amounts of water, too. Also, as near as I can tell, the whole idea that lots of water is necessary for good kidney health is nothing but an old wives tale. I have known humans who drank very few liquids their whole lives, and had good kidneys right up until the end. Are cats any different? |
#5
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Chronic Renal Failu Low protein, or good protein?
"Bill Graham" wrote in message ... I don't understamd how a house cat can become dehydrated. My five cats have two water bowls available to them at all times, which I refill every day. They eat almost exclusively dry foods ( a couple of them won't touch anything else) but they drink large amounts of water, too. Also, as near as I can tell, the whole idea that lots of water is necessary for good kidney health is nothing but an old wives tale. I have known humans who drank very few liquids their whole lives, and had good kidneys right up until the end. Are cats any different? Unfortunately, drinking water is not an old wives tale about kidney health. Humans with compromised kidney function will suffer kidney damage due to a variety of things that require hydration to repair. Compromised kidney function happens to a great deal of people on aging, because kidneys like everything else about getting old tends to fall apart. The humans you knew were lucky not to have kidney problems but they were sure to experience other problems other things that may change kidney health include long term medication usage, frequent illnesses, hypertension, diabetes and a lot of other things. The kidney is an "end organ" and stress on it plus age makes it more susceptible proper hydration makes it less prone to stress that causes damage. Dehydration makes it work harder and that causes damage. sort of if you ran your car without filling up the radiator for those who are old school. cats are genetically predisposed to have more kidney problems you can have a lot of water but you can't force even a human to drink what they have to drink. the thirst regulator isn't always connected to the kidneys need for hydration. So the cat doesn't know how much it needs to drink. Conversely and peculiarly, overhydration can cause deficits as well. If you drink TOO much it will wash out the minerals that allow you to retain the right balance of water. Again, this puts stress on kidneys because it is dysregulating. All the running of the radiator without proper water in it will eventually cause the radiator to corrode. |
#6
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Chronic Renal Failu Low protein, or good protein?
On May 31, 3:37*pm, Rene wrote:
I am not a fan of prescription foods for any reason. I really like the Your Cat book, and also the catinfo.org website. She has a section discussing common feline diseases. This is taken from their site: Kidney Disease (CKD - formerly called "CRF"): *Chronic kidney disease is probably the leading cause of mortality in the cat. *It is troubling to think about the role that chronic dehydration may play in causing or exacerbating feline kidney disease. *And remember, cats are chronically dehydrated - especially CKD cats - when they are on a diet of predominantly dry food. *The prescription dry 'renal diets' such as Hill's Prescription k/d - which are commonly prescribed by veterinarians - contain only a small amount of moisture (~10% versus 78% for canned food) leaving your cat in a less than optimal state of water balance. I must say that I find it truly amazing when I hear about the very large numbers of cats receiving subcutaneous fluids while being maintained on a diet of dry food. *This is an extremely illogical and unhealthy practice and every attempt should be made to get these cats on a diet that contains a higher moisture content. Please also note the following list of the first four ingredients of Hill's Prescription dry k/d after reviewing this section on reading a pet food label - and bearing in mind that your cat is a carnivore. Here is her link to food ingredients:http://www.catinfo.org/#Learn_How_To...gredient_Label Crap - forgot about top-posting. Tiger's been exclusively on Wellness wet food for most of his life. He has access to lots of water, which he's been drinking pretty enthusiastically. He seems to be taking to the prescription stuff (grain and all) quite well. The vet didn't seem concerned that there was an imminent crash in his future, so we've decided to take the vet's advice for a month and see if his numbers improve. If things look bad, then we're gonna switch to the home-recipe "real meat" stuff cut with phosphate binders and/or egg whites. Both our cats have managed well for a long time. Louis the Bengal is 10, albeit with some inappropriate urination issues. We had a really bad spell in the late '90s where we lost 4 cats in the space of two years from cancer, FIV, and an escapee who was devoured by dogs. Heard many success stories of folks treating CRD/CRV with prescription diets, and also ones who follow Dr. Hodgkins' advice. Tough to be a layman trying to evaluate all this data. |
#7
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Chronic Renal Failu Low protein, or good protein?
ala wrote:
"Bill Graham" wrote in message ... I don't understamd how a house cat can become dehydrated. My five cats have two water bowls available to them at all times, which I refill every day. They eat almost exclusively dry foods ( a couple of them won't touch anything else) but they drink large amounts of water, too. Also, as near as I can tell, the whole idea that lots of water is necessary for good kidney health is nothing but an old wives tale. I have known humans who drank very few liquids their whole lives, and had good kidneys right up until the end. Are cats any different? Unfortunately, drinking water is not an old wives tale about kidney health. Humans with compromised kidney function will suffer kidney damage due to a variety of things that require hydration to repair. Compromised kidney function happens to a great deal of people on aging, because kidneys like everything else about getting old tends to fall apart. The humans you knew were lucky not to have kidney problems but they were sure to experience other problems other things that may change kidney health include long term medication usage, frequent illnesses, hypertension, diabetes and a lot of other things. The kidney is an "end organ" and stress on it plus age makes it more susceptible proper hydration makes it less prone to stress that causes damage. Dehydration makes it work harder and that causes damage. sort of if you ran your car without filling up the radiator for those who are old school. cats are genetically predisposed to have more kidney problems you can have a lot of water but you can't force even a human to drink what they have to drink. the thirst regulator isn't always connected to the kidneys need for hydration. So the cat doesn't know how much it needs to drink. Conversely and peculiarly, overhydration can cause deficits as well. If you drink TOO much it will wash out the minerals that allow you to retain the right balance of water. Again, this puts stress on kidneys because it is dysregulating. All the running of the radiator without proper water in it will eventually cause the radiator to corrode. Well, accepting your claim that drinking lots of water is good for the cat's kidneys, how does one go about getting their cats to drink water? Does feeding them dry food, or salty food to make them thirsty do the job? I have one thaw5t likes ham, and I notice that after swhe eats it she does drink more water *as do I) but is this good for her kidneys, or does the salt i8n the ham have effects that are generally worse than the water is good? Some animals that are desert dwellers get most or all of their water from eating plants, but cats don't generally eat plants, even though they thrived in very dry countries for millions of years. I heard about a cat kidney transpland society that specializes in transferring kidneys from one cat to another... This sounds like an excellent idea to me. I wonder how much they charge for the operation, and how they go about matching the cats for transplant purposes..... |
#8
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Chronic Renal Failu Low protein, or good protein?
Well, accepting your claim that drinking lots of water is good for the cat's kidneys, how does one go about getting their cats to drink water? Does feeding them dry food, or salty food to make them thirsty do the job? Dry food contains, at most, 10% water. Wet food is at least 70% (or more, can't remember offhand) water. In the wild, cats eat prey, which contain a lot of water/liquid. Cats weren't meant to eat dry grains-- it's not natural. They can't make up the difference on their own. Wet food is the best way for them to get adequate water. Rene |
#9
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Chronic Renal Failu Low protein, or good protein?
"Bill Graham" wrote in message ... ala wrote: "Bill Graham" wrote in message ... I don't understamd how a house cat can become dehydrated. My five cats have two water bowls available to them at all times, which I refill every day. They eat almost exclusively dry foods ( a couple of them won't touch anything else) but they drink large amounts of water, too. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Cats should eat good-quality *grains free* canned food. NO dry food. Canned food will provide water and help avoid dehydration. In addition, cats are obligate carnivores and should not be fed food with grains. They cannot digest carbs. MaryL |
#10
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Chronic Renal Failu Low protein, or good protein?
MaryL wrote:
"Bill Graham" wrote in message ... ala wrote: "Bill Graham" wrote in message ... I don't understamd how a house cat can become dehydrated. My five cats have two water bowls available to them at all times, which I refill every day. They eat almost exclusively dry foods ( a couple of them won't touch anything else) but they drink large amounts of water, too. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Cats should eat good-quality *grains free* canned food. NO dry food. Canned food will provide water and help avoid dehydration. In addition, cats are obligate carnivores and should not be fed food with grains. They cannot digest carbs. MaryL Well, most people aren't cat food specialists. This is where I expect my government to help out. What do we pay them for anyway? If they can't keep cat food that is bad for the cats off the market, then what are they good for? The least I can expect of the FDA is to keep us from being poisoned by the food merchants, and that goes for our pets as well as ourselves. |
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