Vaccinations The great Debate

In article ,
enlightened us with...

He had them all inc feline Leukaemia...

That is overdoing it. His little immune system has to fight over
everything at once.

Most vaccines are not needed and some are actually not recommended. Many
vaccines do not even prevent the cat from getting sick - they just
lessen the severity.

http://critterfixer.com/pages/feline.asp
http://critterfixer.com/pages/v7_vac...mmend_cats.htm
http://www.avma.org/vafstf/rbbroch.asp

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"Alison Smiley Perera" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"*~*SooZy*~*" wrote:

The breeder I got my kitten from had used Nosode on the kittens,
yesterday
Moshi had his 1st injection at 18 weeks he is an indoor only kitten,
weighs
5.12. we left it longer under my vets advice as he had been unwell 3
times,
twice before we got him, mouth ulcers, lost the fur and whiskers from
his
face, had antibiotics, cleared up came back more antibiotics, cleared
up,
then we got him and some of you may of remember he got a shock we think!
with a very high temp of 105 and she wanted to make sure he was well
before
given him his jabs.

Well in the UK most vets use live vaccines, but after a lot of research
I
decided I wanted killed virus's, I believe if you don't ask for killed
they
automatically give live/modified.

Killed virus vaccines have to have much stronger adjuvants, and despite
that they don't induce as strong of immunity and have to be repeated in
an initial series. One single modified-live distemper vaccine would
undoubtedly have protected your cat for 7 years since it was given after
he was old enough for his immune system to respond.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entre...ve&db=PubMed&l
ist_uids=10328440&dopt=Abstract

The only fear with modified-live vaccines is that they could revert to
virulence. This risk is almost nonexistent with modern vaccines.

He had them all inc feline Leukaemia... not Rabies as UK
he was in good health, we got him home and he became really poorly, I
rang
the vets spoke to the receptionist (who did get the vet herself to call
me
back.) She explained that this sometimes happens in cats... but as long
as
he wasn't being sick, diarrhoea, then if so bring him in for an anti
inflammatory jab, which he had before after shock.

"Anti-inflammatory" is generally vet-speak for steroids which depress
the immune system including the bits that create inflammation. So after
challenging your cat's immune system with a vaccination, you promptly
squelched his immune system with steroids

ok I understand that.

I'm confused. You have a holistically-oriented breeder who is using
homeopathic nosodes in lieu of vaccination.

well she only uses nosodes because she lost a litter of kitten when they
were 8 weeks old of what they were vaccinated against

Does your breeder have no
other recommendations about vaccination and vaccination intervals, or
better yet can't he/she recommend a holistic vet?

she does not live near me, she buy the medication on line.

From the description
of all the ulcers and fevers this sounds like a cat that's going to
require careful management for his whole life. If he were mine I
wouldn't go about that management by beating into submission every
symptom that crops up; rather I'd work with a holistic vet to get to the
root of the problem.

well all 3 of the kittens in that litter got the *infection* it was cleared
up with a 5 day does of antibiotics, then a few days later it came back, so
may it was just not cleared up in the first place.


he was very lethargic, high temperature, got as high as 104 at one
point,
where ever you put him he didn't move :-( I was worried sick! gave him
drips of water from syringe ever 30 mins and some kittyvite which I
rubbed
onto his gums. I checked the net and found this a common reaction.....
during the night he started eating, playing and now he is in top form
again.
Thank god! I feel like I have been put through the mincer.

I wanted people to know how vaccines can effect their cats... he has to
go
back in 3 weeks for the second lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have read some
people space the injections out over a few days? any ideas? suggestions
VERY
welcome... thanks in advanced

Immunologically speaking, you'll get the best result if you give
individual disease vaccines at two week intervals.

Ok I will speak to my vet tomorrow about this, thank you for your
suggestions


Good luck, I'm glad your kitten got through his first vaccine reaction
alright. I think I've heard the second is generally much worse once the
system is sensitized.

-Alison in OH

"Alison Smiley Perera" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"*~*SooZy*~*" wrote:

The breeder I got my kitten from had used Nosode on the kittens,
yesterday
Moshi had his 1st injection at 18 weeks he is an indoor only kitten,
weighs
5.12. we left it longer under my vets advice as he had been unwell 3
times,
twice before we got him, mouth ulcers, lost the fur and whiskers from
his
face, had antibiotics, cleared up came back more antibiotics, cleared
up,
then we got him and some of you may of remember he got a shock we think!
with a very high temp of 105 and she wanted to make sure he was well
before
given him his jabs.

Well in the UK most vets use live vaccines, but after a lot of research
I
decided I wanted killed virus's, I believe if you don't ask for killed
they
automatically give live/modified.

Killed virus vaccines have to have much stronger adjuvants, and despite
that they don't induce as strong of immunity and have to be repeated in
an initial series. One single modified-live distemper vaccine would
undoubtedly have protected your cat for 7 years since it was given after
he was old enough for his immune system to respond.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entre...ve&db=PubMed&l
ist_uids=10328440&dopt=Abstract

The only fear with modified-live vaccines is that they could revert to
virulence. This risk is almost nonexistent with modern vaccines.

He had them all inc feline Leukaemia... not Rabies as UK
he was in good health, we got him home and he became really poorly, I
rang
the vets spoke to the receptionist (who did get the vet herself to call
me
back.) She explained that this sometimes happens in cats... but as long
as
he wasn't being sick, diarrhoea, then if so bring him in for an anti
inflammatory jab, which he had before after shock.

"Anti-inflammatory" is generally vet-speak for steroids which depress
the immune system including the bits that create inflammation. So after
challenging your cat's immune system with a vaccination, you promptly
squelched his immune system with steroids

ok I understand that.

I'm confused. You have a holistically-oriented breeder who is using
homeopathic nosodes in lieu of vaccination.

well she only uses nosodes because she lost a litter of kitten when they
were 8 weeks old of what they were vaccinated against

Does your breeder have no
other recommendations about vaccination and vaccination intervals, or
better yet can't he/she recommend a holistic vet?

she does not live near me, she buy the medication on line.

From the description
of all the ulcers and fevers this sounds like a cat that's going to
require careful management for his whole life. If he were mine I
wouldn't go about that management by beating into submission every
symptom that crops up; rather I'd work with a holistic vet to get to the
root of the problem.

well all 3 of the kittens in that litter got the *infection* it was cleared
up with a 5 day does of antibiotics, then a few days later it came back, so
may it was just not cleared up in the first place.


he was very lethargic, high temperature, got as high as 104 at one
point,
where ever you put him he didn't move :-( I was worried sick! gave him
drips of water from syringe ever 30 mins and some kittyvite which I
rubbed
onto his gums. I checked the net and found this a common reaction.....
during the night he started eating, playing and now he is in top form
again.
Thank god! I feel like I have been put through the mincer.

I wanted people to know how vaccines can effect their cats... he has to
go
back in 3 weeks for the second lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have read some
people space the injections out over a few days? any ideas? suggestions
VERY
welcome... thanks in advanced

Immunologically speaking, you'll get the best result if you give
individual disease vaccines at two week intervals.

Ok I will speak to my vet tomorrow about this, thank you for your
suggestions


Good luck, I'm glad your kitten got through his first vaccine reaction
alright. I think I've heard the second is generally much worse once the
system is sensitized.

-Alison in OH

In ,
~*SooZy*~ composed with style:

now i really don't know if I should risk given him the second shots!

One of mine isn't getting shots anymore, blessed by the vet. Though he
is 11 years old and was mostly up to date before last year. I know
that you're faced with a tough call since Moshi had a bad reaction but
if I were you and he only had the first series, I'd definitely get the
FVRCP booster. At 5 months he *should* only need one more booster.
Maybe you can leave him at the vets for the day for it so they can
keep an eye on him and give him a benedryl or something if he has a
reaction? I wouldn't get the FeLV booster, but that's you and your
vets call. But - he shouldn't get a jab if he is sick at the time.

In ,
~*SooZy*~ composed with style:

now i really don't know if I should risk given him the second shots!

One of mine isn't getting shots anymore, blessed by the vet. Though he
is 11 years old and was mostly up to date before last year. I know
that you're faced with a tough call since Moshi had a bad reaction but
if I were you and he only had the first series, I'd definitely get the
FVRCP booster. At 5 months he *should* only need one more booster.
Maybe you can leave him at the vets for the day for it so they can
keep an eye on him and give him a benedryl or something if he has a
reaction? I wouldn't get the FeLV booster, but that's you and your
vets call. But - he shouldn't get a jab if he is sick at the time.

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
In ,
~*SooZy*~ composed with style:

now i really don't know if I should risk given him the second shots!

One of mine isn't getting shots anymore, blessed by the vet. Though he
is 11 years old and was mostly up to date before last year. I know
that you're faced with a tough call since Moshi had a bad reaction but
if I were you and he only had the first series, I'd definitely get the
FVRCP booster. At 5 months he *should* only need one more booster.
Maybe you can leave him at the vets for the day for it so they can
keep an eye on him and give him a benedryl or something if he has a
reaction? I wouldn't get the FeLV booster, but that's you and your
vets call. But - he shouldn't get a jab if he is sick at the time.



Thanks Cheryl my partner said why don't you ask if he can be left at the
vets for the day too, Moshi was in good health at the time of his
injections, I think in my first post I made it look like he had been sick
near to his injections... it was 9 weeks before.
when I speak to her I will ask if I can leave him there.
thanks for your good advice :-)

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
In ,
~*SooZy*~ composed with style:

now i really don't know if I should risk given him the second shots!

One of mine isn't getting shots anymore, blessed by the vet. Though he
is 11 years old and was mostly up to date before last year. I know
that you're faced with a tough call since Moshi had a bad reaction but
if I were you and he only had the first series, I'd definitely get the
FVRCP booster. At 5 months he *should* only need one more booster.
Maybe you can leave him at the vets for the day for it so they can
keep an eye on him and give him a benedryl or something if he has a
reaction? I wouldn't get the FeLV booster, but that's you and your
vets call. But - he shouldn't get a jab if he is sick at the time.



Thanks Cheryl my partner said why don't you ask if he can be left at the
vets for the day too, Moshi was in good health at the time of his
injections, I think in my first post I made it look like he had been sick
near to his injections... it was 9 weeks before.
when I speak to her I will ask if I can leave him there.
thanks for your good advice :-)

Hi Soozy ,
I've read that boosters only need to be done every three years, if
that .Kim gets a bit poorly after , she is also allergic and suffers
from crystals . I'm seriously thinking of not having her done next
year . The only problem is that if you need to use a cattery then you
have to have up to date vaccinations . They are very strict about it .

--
Alison

Rescues.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/AnimalRescueLinksUK/

Links to animal information websites
http://mysite.freeserve.com/petinfolinks/
"~*SooZy*~" wrote in message
...

what are people's view here on boosters every year?
they say the truth is no-one is sure low long immunity could last in
an
individual cat, for each individual disease, using any one kind of
vaccine.
Recommendations are made on minimum period of immunity, rather than
a
possibly maximum.


--
Luv'n'Stuff
*~*SooZy*~*
New Pictures added every few days
http://community.webshots.com/user/ragdollcatsuk

Hi Soozy ,
I've read that boosters only need to be done every three years, if
that .Kim gets a bit poorly after , she is also allergic and suffers
from crystals . I'm seriously thinking of not having her done next
year . The only problem is that if you need to use a cattery then you
have to have up to date vaccinations . They are very strict about it .

--
Alison

Rescues.
http://mysite.freeserve.com/AnimalRescueLinksUK/

Links to animal information websites
http://mysite.freeserve.com/petinfolinks/
"~*SooZy*~" wrote in message
...

what are people's view here on boosters every year?
they say the truth is no-one is sure low long immunity could last in
an
individual cat, for each individual disease, using any one kind of
vaccine.
Recommendations are made on minimum period of immunity, rather than
a
possibly maximum.


--
Luv'n'Stuff
*~*SooZy*~*
New Pictures added every few days
http://community.webshots.com/user/ragdollcatsuk

Hi Sooz, you got some great replies to this thread but I wanted to add
something. My Yo had a bad reaction to vaccinations three years ago. Since
then, with the others, here's the method I've adopted,
1) Don't let the vet give them all the vaccinations at once. I space them out
three weeks apart.
2) I always take them early in the morning. That way, if there's a problem, the
vet is still going to be open in the afternoon. We don't have a dependable
after-hours system here. It's very frustrating.

Sherry