Discouraged

On 6/6/2014 5:03 PM, Jack Campin wrote:
Joy wrote:
I'm getting discouraged. Waffles seems to be okay, considering the
fact that he has cancer, doesn't drink enough and is getting chemo. [...]
He gets Prednisone twice a day. He's also supposed to get an antacid
twice a day. He gets chemo (a pill) twice a week. Yesterday I had him
checked, and the doctor said he's showing signs of infection, so I'm to
give him an antibiotic twice a day. He runs away, then struggles when I
finally catch him, every time I have to medicate him. In fact, he runs
away if I approach him, even if I'm not giving him anything.
That would be hard enough if I were young and energetic. I'm 78 and
have a bad knee. [...]
Then there's the financial angle. I'm on a fixed income.

Look, everybody has limits to what they can afford and what they can
cope with. Don't feel guilty or ashamed if you've hit those limits.
It sounds from what you write that he can't live for very long, no
matter what. You can surround him with love and take his pain away
at the end, and nobody here will think the worse of you if that's all
you can manage. We know you care and Waffles does too.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 http://www.campin.me.uk Twitter: JackCampin


Thank you. If he goes into remission, he could have a couple more
years, but I know what you mean, and I appreciate it.

Joy

--
Joy Unlimited
Colorful Crocheted Critters
Photos at http://www.PictureTrail.com/joy9

On 6/6/2014 4:49 PM, Jack G. wrote:
On Friday, June 6, 2014 3:14:32 PM UTC-7, Joy wrote:
On 6/6/2014 2:46 PM, Christina Websell wrote:

"Joy" wrote in message

...

I'm getting discouraged. Waffles seems to be okay, considering the fact

that he has cancer, doesn't drink enough and is getting chemo. However,

he feels food enough to run away from me and struggle when I give him his

meds.



He gets Prednisone twice a day. He's also supposed to get an antacid

twice a day. He gets chemo (a pill) twice a week. Yesterday I had him

checked, and the doctor said he's showing signs of infection, so I'm to

give him an antibiotic twice a day. He runs away, then struggles when I

finally catch him, every time I have to medicate him. In fact, he runs

away if I approach him, even if I'm not giving him anything.





Oh, Joy, my heart goes out to you. I absolutely cannot medicate Boyfie on

my own, it must be a nightmare for you.



It is rough, but I just realized that, even though he runs away, and

then struggles, he never bites or scratches.



Joy















That would be hard enough if I were young and energetic. I'm 78 and have

a bad knee. I'm getting worn down.



I have to get up in the night a few times. Up until last night, Waffles

would come up and cuddle every time I got back into bed. Last night he

didn't do it at all, until the very last time. I was beginning to think

he hated me for doing all that to him.



Have you spoken to the vet about your difficulties? It might be that some

of his meds can be given in liquid form instead and hidden in tuna juice or

something.



Then there's the financial angle. I'm on a fixed income. The chemo costs

a little over $20 a week. The Prednisone is $78 for about two weeks'

worth. I have to take him back for tests. It has been weekly, but

yesterday I got her to say we could make the visits 10 days apart. Each

visit costs in the vicinity of $150. The vet agreed to waive the fee for

the visit itself, but he has to have a CBC done each time, and lab work is

expensive! He also usually needs fluid.



Remind me, how old is Waffles? And did the vet give you an idea about how

long his treatment would be and his likely prognosis afterwards? If the

treatment is fairly short term and the prognosis is fairly good afterwards,

that's one thing, but if it's long term like for ever..well no-one can

afford that. You might have to consider his future.



The vet told me about something called CareCredit (I think), which is an

outfit that will lend money on a short term basis. If you pay a fixed

amount a month, and have it all paid off within six months, there is no

interest. I can see where that would be great for a one-time expense like

surgery, but this is an ongoing thing.



Don't even consider that. What if you couldn't pay it off within six

months? I've seen people here get into terrible trouble with these short

term loan companies, the fact that your vet has suggested that you use one

rather than offer you a payment plan himself with no interest is a bit,

well, unusual. Next time you go, insist he tells you the true situation

about what your money will get you in regard to Waffles survival (sorry, I

get a bit suspicous about a vet who would encourage a 78 yo to take out a

short term loan that has the potential to get Very Difficult Indeed}





I'm tired and depressed.



I expect you are. Lots of purrs coming for both of you.

Keep us informed.

Tweed











--

Joy Unlimited

Colorful Crocheted Critters

Photos at http://www.PictureTrail.com/joy9

The hardest thing I have ever done is look into my cats caring and loving eyes for the last time. I have more to say but my keyboard is filled with tears.


Yes, I understand. Most, if not all, of us here have been there, and I
know I'll be there again, sooner than later.

Joy

--
Joy Unlimited
Colorful Crocheted Critters
Photos at http://www.PictureTrail.com/joy9

On Fri, 06 Jun 2014 17:16:59 -0700, Joy wrote:
Thank you. If he goes into remission, he could have a couple more
years, but I know what you mean, and I appreciate it.

It always seems to be a gamble. With an inoperable cancer, in the end, it
just wins.

In my case with Betty, if I had oracular foresight, I wouldn't have put her
through treatment. The couple of months it bought her probably wasn't worth
the discomfort and fear that she had to sometimes endure. But obviously, it
can sometimes work out better.

Our crew is sending purrs for poor Waffles.

On 6/7/2014 6:16 PM, Takayuki wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2014 17:16:59 -0700, Joy wrote:
Thank you. If he goes into remission, he could have a couple more
years, but I know what you mean, and I appreciate it.

It always seems to be a gamble. With an inoperable cancer, in the end, it
just wins.

In my case with Betty, if I had oracular foresight, I wouldn't have put her
through treatment. The couple of months it bought her probably wasn't worth
the discomfort and fear that she had to sometimes endure. But obviously, it
can sometimes work out better.

Our crew is sending purrs for poor Waffles.


Thank you, and I do know what you mean. I took Nanki-Poo for radiation
treatments five days a week for five days. He lived two or three months
after the treatments stopped. Right now I'm using two criteria to
decide how long I'll keep up Waffles' medication. One is, of course,
financial. When I run out of money, it will have to stop. That won't
take anything like the six months he's supposed to have the chemo. The
other one is whether he starts seeing me as the enemy. He runs from me
when it's medication time, but an hour or so later, he'll let me pet
him. He doesn't come up and cuddle in bed as often as he used to, but
he still comes up.

Joy

--
Joy Unlimited
Colorful Crocheted Critters
Photos at http://www.PictureTrail.com/joy9

When Amber stopped eating, at 18 1/2 years I knew the end was near. I had plenty of money in my cat savings account but I didn't want to subject her to a vet trip and needless treatment. She faded slowly and died in about a week.

"Joy" wrote in message
...
On 6/6/2014 2:46 PM, Christina Websell wrote:
"Joy" wrote in message
...
I'm getting discouraged. Waffles seems to be okay, considering the fact
that he has cancer, doesn't drink enough and is getting chemo. However,
he feels food enough to run away from me and struggle when I give him
his
meds.

He gets Prednisone twice a day. He's also supposed to get an antacid
twice a day. He gets chemo (a pill) twice a week. Yesterday I had him
checked, and the doctor said he's showing signs of infection, so I'm to
give him an antibiotic twice a day. He runs away, then struggles when I
finally catch him, every time I have to medicate him. In fact, he runs
away if I approach him, even if I'm not giving him anything.


Oh, Joy, my heart goes out to you. I absolutely cannot medicate Boyfie
on
my own, it must be a nightmare for you.

It is rough, but I just realized that, even though he runs away, and then
struggles, he never bites or scratches.


which is great(Boyfie is the same) but please don't borrow money for cancer
unless your vet tells you he will have a year or more.
I spent a whole lot of money once with one of my dogs, I took him to
Cambridge University to the best person who knew about face cancers, and
even then, I had him put down eventuallyas it was bleeding a few months
later despite his chemo.

So, what I am saying is don't stretch your budget too much.










That would be hard enough if I were young and energetic. I'm 78 and
have
a bad knee. I'm getting worn down.

I have to get up in the night a few times. Up until last night, Waffles
would come up and cuddle every time I got back into bed. Last night he
didn't do it at all, until the very last time. I was beginning to think
he hated me for doing all that to him.

Have you spoken to the vet about your difficulties? It might be that
some
of his meds can be given in liquid form instead and hidden in tuna juice
or
something.

Then there's the financial angle. I'm on a fixed income. The chemo
costs
a little over $20 a week. The Prednisone is $78 for about two weeks'
worth. I have to take him back for tests. It has been weekly, but
yesterday I got her to say we could make the visits 10 days apart. Each
visit costs in the vicinity of $150. The vet agreed to waive the fee
for
the visit itself, but he has to have a CBC done each time, and lab work
is
expensive! He also usually needs fluid.

Remind me, how old is Waffles? And did the vet give you an idea about how
long his treatment would be and his likely prognosis afterwards? If the
treatment is fairly short term and the prognosis is fairly good
afterwards,
that's one thing, but if it's long term like for ever..well no-one can
afford that. You might have to consider his future.

The vet told me about something called CareCredit (I think), which is an
outfit that will lend money on a short term basis. If you pay a fixed
amount a month, and have it all paid off within six months, there is no
interest. I can see where that would be great for a one-time expense
like
surgery, but this is an ongoing thing.

Don't even consider that. What if you couldn't pay it off within six
months? I've seen people here get into terrible trouble with these short
term loan companies, the fact that your vet has suggested that you use
one
rather than offer you a payment plan himself with no interest is a bit,
well, unusual. Next time you go, insist he tells you the true situation
about what your money will get you in regard to Waffles survival (sorry,
I
get a bit suspicous about a vet who would encourage a 78 yo to take out a
short term loan that has the potential to get Very Difficult Indeed}


I'm tired and depressed.

I expect you are. Lots of purrs coming for both of you.
Keep us informed.
Tweed





--
Joy Unlimited
Colorful Crocheted Critters
Photos at http://www.PictureTrail.com/joy9

On 6/8/2014 3:31 PM, Christina Websell wrote:
"Joy" wrote in message
...
On 6/6/2014 2:46 PM, Christina Websell wrote:
"Joy" wrote in message
...
I'm getting discouraged. Waffles seems to be okay, considering the fact
that he has cancer, doesn't drink enough and is getting chemo. However,
he feels food enough to run away from me and struggle when I give him
his
meds.

He gets Prednisone twice a day. He's also supposed to get an antacid
twice a day. He gets chemo (a pill) twice a week. Yesterday I had him
checked, and the doctor said he's showing signs of infection, so I'm to
give him an antibiotic twice a day. He runs away, then struggles when I
finally catch him, every time I have to medicate him. In fact, he runs
away if I approach him, even if I'm not giving him anything.


Oh, Joy, my heart goes out to you. I absolutely cannot medicate Boyfie
on
my own, it must be a nightmare for you.

It is rough, but I just realized that, even though he runs away, and then
struggles, he never bites or scratches.


which is great(Boyfie is the same) but please don't borrow money for cancer
unless your vet tells you he will have a year or more.
I spent a whole lot of money once with one of my dogs, I took him to
Cambridge University to the best person who knew about face cancers, and
even then, I had him put down eventuallyas it was bleeding a few months
later despite his chemo.

So, what I am saying is don't stretch your budget too much.










That would be hard enough if I were young and energetic. I'm 78 and
have
a bad knee. I'm getting worn down.

I have to get up in the night a few times. Up until last night, Waffles
would come up and cuddle every time I got back into bed. Last night he
didn't do it at all, until the very last time. I was beginning to think
he hated me for doing all that to him.

Have you spoken to the vet about your difficulties? It might be that
some
of his meds can be given in liquid form instead and hidden in tuna juice
or
something.

Then there's the financial angle. I'm on a fixed income. The chemo
costs
a little over $20 a week. The Prednisone is $78 for about two weeks'
worth. I have to take him back for tests. It has been weekly, but
yesterday I got her to say we could make the visits 10 days apart. Each
visit costs in the vicinity of $150. The vet agreed to waive the fee
for
the visit itself, but he has to have a CBC done each time, and lab work
is
expensive! He also usually needs fluid.

Remind me, how old is Waffles? And did the vet give you an idea about how
long his treatment would be and his likely prognosis afterwards? If the
treatment is fairly short term and the prognosis is fairly good
afterwards,
that's one thing, but if it's long term like for ever..well no-one can
afford that. You might have to consider his future.

The vet told me about something called CareCredit (I think), which is an
outfit that will lend money on a short term basis. If you pay a fixed
amount a month, and have it all paid off within six months, there is no
interest. I can see where that would be great for a one-time expense
like
surgery, but this is an ongoing thing.

Don't even consider that. What if you couldn't pay it off within six
months? I've seen people here get into terrible trouble with these short
term loan companies, the fact that your vet has suggested that you use
one
rather than offer you a payment plan himself with no interest is a bit,
well, unusual. Next time you go, insist he tells you the true situation
about what your money will get you in regard to Waffles survival (sorry,
I
get a bit suspicous about a vet who would encourage a 78 yo to take out a
short term loan that has the potential to get Very Difficult Indeed}


I'm tired and depressed.

I expect you are. Lots of purrs coming for both of you.
Keep us informed.
Tweed





--
Joy Unlimited
Colorful Crocheted Critters
Photos at http://www.PictureTrail.com/joy9



I won't give up on him until I have to, but I won't borrow money.

Joy

--
Joy Unlimited
Colorful Crocheted Critters
Photos at http://www.PictureTrail.com/joy9

On 6/8/2014 5:38 AM, Mike Mayers wrote:
When Amber stopped eating, at 18 1/2 years I knew the end was near. I had plenty of money in my cat savings account but I didn't want to subject her to a vet trip and needless treatment. She faded slowly and died in about a week.


Each situation is different.

Joy

--
Joy Unlimited
Colorful Crocheted Critters
Photos at http://www.PictureTrail.com/joy9

On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 15:43:36 -0700, Joy wrote:

On 6/8/2014 5:38 AM, Mike Mayers wrote:
When Amber stopped eating, at 18 1/2 years I knew the end was near. I had plenty of money in my cat savings account but I didn't want to subject her to a vet trip and needless treatment. She faded slowly and died in about a week.


Each situation is different.

Joy

True, but Waffle's situation sounds so much like what I went through
with Nico. I had the money but twice a day I had to give him Leukeran
or Prednisone. Leukeran was so toxic that I had to wear gloves when
putting the pill in his mouth. He hated taking the pills. If the
cancer went into remission he might have had another year or two, but
it didn't and he died after maybe six months.

He never climbed the cat tree after he started getting those pills,
and I realized that he was probably nauseous the whole time. This is
one of the most difficult calls we can make as a pet slave, and I made
the wrong one because I couldn't stand the thought of Nico dying.

WIth money being tight, I'd check with the vet to make sure that there
was a very good chance that Waffles would go into remission before
continuing. Our cats don't understand why we're torturing them,
although I'm sure on some level they do know.

I don't know what advice to give here, but I'm leaning towards saying
to stop it. Tell the vet that's what you think is best, and see how
much he argues. If he feels that Waffles really will pull through,
maybe it's worth it. It's such a heartbreaking decision.

On 6/10/2014 6:02 AM, dgk wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 15:43:36 -0700, Joy wrote:

On 6/8/2014 5:38 AM, Mike Mayers wrote:
When Amber stopped eating, at 18 1/2 years I knew the end was near. I had plenty of money in my cat savings account but I didn't want to subject her to a vet trip and needless treatment. She faded slowly and died in about a week.


Each situation is different.

Joy

True, but Waffle's situation sounds so much like what I went through
with Nico. I had the money but twice a day I had to give him Leukeran
or Prednisone. Leukeran was so toxic that I had to wear gloves when
putting the pill in his mouth. He hated taking the pills. If the
cancer went into remission he might have had another year or two, but
it didn't and he died after maybe six months.

He never climbed the cat tree after he started getting those pills,
and I realized that he was probably nauseous the whole time. This is
one of the most difficult calls we can make as a pet slave, and I made
the wrong one because I couldn't stand the thought of Nico dying.

WIth money being tight, I'd check with the vet to make sure that there
was a very good chance that Waffles would go into remission before
continuing. Our cats don't understand why we're torturing them,
although I'm sure on some level they do know.

I don't know what advice to give here, but I'm leaning towards saying
to stop it. Tell the vet that's what you think is best, and see how
much he argues. If he feels that Waffles really will pull through,
maybe it's worth it. It's such a heartbreaking decision.

I understand what you're saying. I took Nanki-Poo for radiation
treatments five days a week for five weeks. He lived about five months
after the treatments ended. I'm still trying not to think about it. I
made what seemed to be the right choice at the time, just as you did.
That's all we can do.

Yesterday Waffles spent almost all day hiding in a corner. I had almost
decided to stop everything. Then he came out and I decided to continue
with the Prednisone twice a day, and the chemo twice a week, but not
give him the antacid or the antibiotic the vet thinks he should have.
She said there was something like a 68% chance he'd go into remission
and have as much as 20 months more. I'm just taking it one day at a
time. He seems to be more alert and energetic this morning, so I'll
continue with those two things. I do think the Prednisone makes him
feel better.

Yes, it is a heartbreaking decision.

Joy

--
Joy Unlimited
Colorful Crocheted Critters
Photos at http://www.PictureTrail.com/joy9