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Cat has CRF



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 23rd 09, 10:43 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Kolbard
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Posts: 24
Default Cat has CRF

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 18:07:10 GMT, "Phil P."
wrote:


"Kolbard" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:13:15 GMT, "Phil P."
wrote:


"Kolbard" wrote in message
.. .
Thanks for the advice, Phil. My biggest concern here is how can I get
the vet to do all these things?

At this point, I wouldn't waste time trying to find a general

practitioner
that's experienced in treating CRF. I think you should consult a an ABVP

or
ACVIM specialist ASAP-- if not sooner. I don't think you should wait

another
second. If you live within range of a veterinary school, you should give
them a call. Most veterinary colleges have nephrologists and urologists

on
staff and are fully equipped to handle uremic crises.

If not, do a search for an ABVP feline specialist in your area:
http://www.abvp.com/FindDiplomate.aspx

If you can't find an ABVP Diplomate in your area try:
ACVIM Board-certified Veterinary Specialist in Your Area
http://www.acvim.org/websites/acvim/index.php?p=3


I just checked and there aren't any close to me. The closest is maybe
5 hours away.



That's not that far under the circumstances- considering your cat urgently
needs correct and immediate treatment.


It seems like such a gamble. How do I even know I'll find the right
person to treat her? She still might not make it.



All I can hope for is that the vet agrees to put her back on IV. I
hate feeling so helpless, being at the mercy of the vets here.



Do you have a car? How far do you live from the nearest vet college?


The nearest vet college is about 8-9 hours away. I don't have a car
(I'm basically a bum) but my mother does. If we went, we'd have to
rent one, because the A/C is out. I'm afraid that my cat wouldn't
even make the trip, especially in a hot car.

Kolbard
  #22  
Old April 24th 09, 02:53 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Kolbard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Cat has CRF

She's drinking water, urinating, and generally more active right now.
Earlier today, she was walking weirdly on her front legs, a sure sign
of low potassium levels. We gave her part of a K+ pill this evening
(NOW Foods), and either it's a coincidence, or it's working. I was
going to get a #4 gelcap, but all I saw were various #0's (#0, #00,
etc.). I will try syringing some food (and AlternaGel) later, but
not more than a few syringes worth.

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:21:47 -0500, Kolbard
wrote:


We took her back to the vet to get her back on IV (and mention the
diuretic), but they couldn't IV her because she's still swollen from
the SubQ shot yesterday.

Kolbard



Kolbard
  #23  
Old April 24th 09, 03:33 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cindys
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 592
Default Cat has CRF

On Apr 23, 9:53*pm, Kolbard wrote:
She's drinking water, urinating, and generally more active right now.
Earlier today, she was walking weirdly on her front legs, a sure sign
of low potassium levels. *We gave her part of a K+ pill this evening
(NOW Foods), and either it's a coincidence, or it's working. *


snip
------------
Hopefully, it's working. I'm not sure what Phil's response will be to
this, but when my sister's cat needed a potassium supplement, her vet
told her to just go to the supermarket and buy a sodium substitute
(one that contains potassium rather than sodium) and just sprinkle
some on the cat's food (which is similar to what you've done). When I
asked my vet about doing the same (when my cat needed a K+
supplement), the answer I got was that the supermarket sold potassium
chloride rather than potassium gluconate, and that was okay, but that
I would need to do the math to ensure that my cat was getting an
appropriate dose. So, to answer your question: I suspect that it would
probably be better if your cat got the official K+ supplement but you
needed to improvise and it's working fine.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

  #24  
Old April 24th 09, 03:57 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Kolbard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Cat has CRF

Hmm, I read a bit more and this "knuckling" seems to be from high
phosphorus levels rather than low potassium. I gave her a couple of
syringes of food/water mix just now, and a serving of AlternaGel. She
actually ate most of a cat treat, but it was one of the "bad" ones;
perhaps tomorrow I'll look for low-protein ones.

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:53:17 -0500, Kolbard
wrote:

She's drinking water, urinating, and generally more active right now.
Earlier today, she was walking weirdly on her front legs, a sure sign
of low potassium levels. We gave her part of a K+ pill this evening
(NOW Foods), and either it's a coincidence, or it's working. I was
going to get a #4 gelcap, but all I saw were various #0's (#0, #00,
etc.). I will try syringing some food (and AlternaGel) later, but
not more than a few syringes worth.


Kolbard
  #25  
Old April 24th 09, 03:58 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Kolbard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Cat has CRF

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:33:16 -0700 (PDT), cindys
wrote:

On Apr 23, 9:53*pm, Kolbard wrote:
She's drinking water, urinating, and generally more active right now.
Earlier today, she was walking weirdly on her front legs, a sure sign
of low potassium levels. *We gave her part of a K+ pill this evening
(NOW Foods), and either it's a coincidence, or it's working. *


snip
------------
Hopefully, it's working. I'm not sure what Phil's response will be to
this, but when my sister's cat needed a potassium supplement, her vet
told her to just go to the supermarket and buy a sodium substitute
(one that contains potassium rather than sodium) and just sprinkle
some on the cat's food (which is similar to what you've done). When I
asked my vet about doing the same (when my cat needed a K+
supplement), the answer I got was that the supermarket sold potassium
chloride rather than potassium gluconate, and that was okay, but that
I would need to do the math to ensure that my cat was getting an
appropriate dose. So, to answer your question: I suspect that it would
probably be better if your cat got the official K+ supplement but you
needed to improvise and it's working fine.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


It's potassium gluconate that we're giving her. I found a website
with table of brands and conversions, and it said to give 4/5ths of a
NOW pill.

Kolbard
  #26  
Old April 24th 09, 01:37 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cindys
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 592
Default Cat has CRF

On Apr 23, 10:57*pm, Kolbard wrote:
Hmm, I read a bit more and this "knuckling" seems to be from high
phosphorus levels rather than low potassium. *I gave her a couple of
syringes of food/water mix just now, and a serving of AlternaGel. *She
actually ate most of a cat treat, but it was one of the "bad" ones;
perhaps tomorrow I'll look for low-protein ones.

----------------
There has never been any evidence to demonstrate that CRF cats do
better with a low protein diet. And cats needs protein. When Alex had
CRF, I kept him on a moderate protein/low phosphorus canned food diet
and he did very well for two years (his BUN and creatinine numbers
actually decreased) until he died from cancer. According to what
you've written, your kitty is barely eating. If she is willing to eat
these cat treats, then I would encourage her to eat them and not worry
about their protein content, if I were you.

Based on your description, it sounds like your cat's situation is
nearly exactly the same as the situation I had with a different one of
my cats (Molly) three years ago. Her numbers were sky high. She was
wobbly on her feet, drooling from nausea, barely eating. She had been
like that for weeks, and she was getting worse. But the confounding
factor was that she was still walking around and using her litter box.
She was still purring and wanted to be with me. She was still able to
jump up on the couch (just barely) to take a nap. She was still
willing to eat a little bit of meat out of my hand. I went to the
grocery store and spent $10 on a steak and shredded it, and she ate a
little bit from my hand. For 17 years, I had eaten with her, played
with her, scratched her ears, cuddled up with her at night. I loved
her so much. She was my heart song. I just couldn't bring myself to
give up on her. It was so hard to let her go.... But she was really
suffering. Cats are very stoic. It must have taken every fiber of
Molly's being to put up what little of a good front she could. I know
you didn't ask, and I know what I'm telling you is unsolicited.

When you have a cat whom you love as much as I loved Molly and as much
as you obviously love your cat, it's very hard to be objective. The
grief at the prospect of saying goodbye is unbearable, and when
they're gone, the guilt is tremendous; even though you did everything
humanly possible to try to save them, you will always be convinced
there was something you overlooked, something more you could have
done.

Based on your description, your cat is extremely ill. Even though you
are doing anything and everything possible to save her, there is a
point where there is nothing more you can do or where you can provide
some treatment that will slightly improve the situation for a few days
only to have it deteriorate again. As you make decisions for her, I'm
sure you haven't forgotten that it's not just about keeping your cat
alive; it's about her quality of life and ensuring that she's not
suffering in the process.

I know what it's like to go through all of this. Many hugs and
purrs...
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
  #27  
Old April 25th 09, 01:25 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,027
Default Cat has CRF


"cindys" wrote in message
...
On Apr 23, 9:53 pm, Kolbard wrote:
She's drinking water, urinating, and generally more active right now.
Earlier today, she was walking weirdly on her front legs, a sure sign
of low potassium levels. We gave her part of a K+ pill this evening
(NOW Foods), and either it's a coincidence, or it's working.


snip
------------
Hopefully, it's working. I'm not sure what Phil's response will be to
this, but when my sister's cat needed a potassium supplement, her vet
told her to just go to the supermarket and buy a sodium substitute
(one that contains potassium rather than sodium) and just sprinkle
some on the cat's food (which is similar to what you've done). When I
asked my vet about doing the same (when my cat needed a K+
supplement), the answer I got was that the supermarket sold potassium
chloride rather than potassium gluconate, and that was okay,



Hi Cindy,

Actually, giving potassium chloride to a cat with CRF isn't a good idea
because of its acidifying nature and potentional to promote acidosis. With
the BUN/Cr levels as high as they are, and K+ low as it is, she's probably
acidotic already. If she is acidotic- which I think there's a good chance
she is, potassium citrate would be better than potassium gluconate because
citrate has an alkalinizing effect. With potassium citrate, you can treat
hypokalemia and acidosis with one drug. The only problem is the risk of
overalkalinization because in most cases the doses of potassium needed to
bring K+ levels into the upper half of the normal range are usually a lot
higher than the doses of citrate needed to resolve acidosis. I think he
should stick with potassium gluconate and if his cat is acodic, treat the
acidosis with bicarbonate separately.


When the vet saw the BUN/Cr/K+ levels, I'm surprised she didn't at least
check the cat's blood pH and serum bicarbonate.


Phil






  #28  
Old April 25th 09, 01:25 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Phil P.
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Posts: 1,027
Default Cat has CRF


"Kolbard" wrote in message
...
Hmm, I read a bit more and this "knuckling" seems to be from high
phosphorus levels rather than low potassium.


I don't think so.



  #29  
Old April 25th 09, 01:32 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,027
Default Cat has CRF


"Kolbard" wrote in message
news

It's potassium gluconate that we're giving her. I found a website
with table of brands and conversions, and it said to give 4/5ths of a
NOW pill.


Stick to Turmil-K powder or gel- its easier to measure accurately. What dose
of K+ did your vet prescribe? My guess is your cat needs more than 2
mEq/day.


  #30  
Old April 25th 09, 01:52 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Kolbard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Cat has CRF

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 00:25:51 GMT, "Phil P."
wrote:


"Kolbard" wrote in message
.. .
Hmm, I read a bit more and this "knuckling" seems to be from high
phosphorus levels rather than low potassium.


I don't think so.


No? Is it from low potassium?

We managed to get her back on IV at the vet's clinic. We won't be
able to speak with the doc until tomorrow, but I'll definitely lobby
for a diuretic; the vet assistant mentioned that they will use it
under certain circumstances.

Kolbard
 




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